DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Chinmoy]

Hope the powers that be come to the same realization.

They do realize it very well.

 

[Blood+]

They do realize it very well.

Sure hope you're right.

 

[Chinmoy]

Why TF this private companies are not interested in ACMA. Is there something wrong if yes then why government is not working on it.

DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

Oh come on, man!! Now you're being deliberately obtuse. It's a gen 5 fighter aircraft, is there anything more complex than that (except for women I mean, because nothing in this universe is more complex than them)?? That's what I am asking. Just tell me the points where a 5th gen plane is...

defenceforumindia.com

 

[Tridev123]

What experience these guys have got in aeronautics that comes even a quarter way close to that's possessed by HAL??!! Even the term noob is an understatement. TATA, Mahindra, Kalyani is already in the business.

Anything!! Anything but AMCA!!

Why not hand over the production rights and the IPR of the Basic Trainer Aircraft HTT - 40 and the Intermediate Jet Trainer HJT - 36 to an reputed Private Sector companies.

The HAL chaps can rightly protest vehemently since they along with the ADA/ADE have done all the hard work.
But maybe they can agree in the larger national interest.
Also receive a Royalty Payment for each of these aircraft sold.

These aircraft are not too hitech and it will be much simpler task for the companies to absorb the technology. A learning curve experience.

They are of indigenous design and their commercial success will help strengthen the national aerospace eco system.

Why do we need to spoon feed the Private Sector in aerospace.
Because having a monopoly in aircraft manufacture is not wise.
A large country like India needs at least 3 to 4 companies specialising in aircraft design and manufacture.

Already a few private companies are moving ahead in aerospace. Setting up assembly lines. Yes, almost screwdriver operations only . But we need to start somewhere.

Visualise the situation two decades ahead.
The country needs an 5.5 or 6th generation fighter aircraft.
The Government of the day invites proposals from HAL and another big Private Sector Aerospace company.

Each company will have an aircraft Design Bureau which will do a preliminary design of the required plane. Significantly different designs. Both will compete for the contract.

The best design will be chosen by the Defence Ministry after widespread internal consultations and also after taking the views of aerospace experts outside the Government.

Competition generally fosters greater efficiency and innovation in any field.

There is no need to fear the entry of the Private Sector in defence manufacturing.
As long as it an Indian private sector company.

Are we asking an Pakistani Aerospace company to make fighter or transport aircraft for the IAF.
God, man. Why this paranoid attitude towards our own people and companies.
As long as India gets the best defence hardware does it really matter whether our DPSU's or Private sector companies produce it.

HAL will continue to exist and also thrive.
Because the market potential is so big in India.
It can support several aerospace companies.

But, yes the Private Sector needs to be sincere, invest in genuine R&D and support nation building.

 

[Blood+]

Why not hand over the production rights and the IPR of the Basic Trainer Aircraft HTT - 40 and the Intermediate Jet Trainer HJT - 36 to an reputed Private Sector companies.

The HAL chaps can rightly protest vehemently since they along with the ADA/ADE have done all the hard work.
But maybe they can agree in the larger national interest.
Also receive a Royalty Payment for each of these aircraft sold.

These aircraft are not too hitech and it will be much simpler task for the companies to absorb the technology. A learning curve experience.

They are of indigenous design and their commercial success will help strengthen the national aerospace eco system.

Why do we need to spoon feed the Private Sector in aerospace.
Because having a monopoly in aircraft manufacture is not wise.
A large country like India needs at least 3 to 4 companies specialising in aircraft design and manufacture.

Already a few private companies are moving ahead in aerospace. Setting up assembly lines. Yes, almost screwdriver operations only . But we need to start somewhere.

Visualise the situation two decades ahead.
The country needs an 5.5 or 6th generation fighter aircraft.
The Government of the day invites proposals from HAL and another big Private Sector Aerospace company.

Each company will have an aircraft Design Bureau which will do a preliminary design of the required plane. Significantly different designs. Both will compete for the contract.

The best design will be chosen by the Defence Ministry after widespread internal consultations and also after taking the views of aerospace experts outside the Government.

Competition generally fosters greater efficiency and innovation in any field.

There is no need to fear the entry of the Private Sector in defence manufacturing.
As long as it an Indian private sector company.

Are we asking an Pakistani Aerospace company to make fighter or transport aircraft for the IAF.
God, man. Why this paranoid attitude towards our own people and companies.
As long as India gets the best defence hardware does it really matter whether our DPSU's or Private sector companies produce it.

HAL will continue to exist and also thrive.
Because the market potential is so big in India.
It can support several aerospace companies.

But, yes the Private Sector needs to be sincere, invest in genuine R&D and support nation building.

Good luck with that one. I agree with the rest though.

 

[Tridev123]

Good luck with that one. I agree with the rest though.

Yes, probably HAL will never agree to give up the manufacturing rights of the HTT 40 and HJT 36.
Unless the Government forces it.

 

[Blood+]

Yes, probably HAL will never agree to give up the manufacturing rights of the HTT 40 and HJT 36.
Unless the Government forces it.

No, that's the part I agree with you whole heartedly. It's the part in bold that I'm skeptical about; not saying that it should not be done, heck, that's how it should be but I don't think our private players are ready for this or will be in the near future. They are just fundamentally too risk verse.

 

[Tridev123]

No, that's the part I agree with you whole heartedly. It's the part in bold that I'm skeptical about; not saying that it should not be done, heck, that's how it should be but I don't think our private players are ready for this or will be in the near future. They are just fundamentally too risk verse.

I hope that kind of scenario is indeed possible.
Two decades is quite a lot of time.
Our private sector should step up and think big. Calculated risk taking should be practised.

If the Japanese who are also Asians like us could transform their country in a few decades why should we lag behind.

No way we can equal China if we continue an risk averse strategy.

Let's hope we increase our productivity and capacity for innovation in an exponential way.

 

[Blood+]

I hope that kind of scenario is indeed possible.
Two decades is quite a lot of time.
Our private sector should step up and think big. Calculated risk taking should be practised.

If the Japanese who are also Asians like us could transform their country in a few decades why should we lag behind.

No way we can equal China if we continue an risk averse strategy.

Let's hope we increase our productivity and capacity for innovation in an exponential way.

I know, I said the same thing. That's exactly how things are ought to be but I don't have any confidence in our so called private sector. Maybe its just me but so far, I see no indication that they will be deviating from their overly cautious and risk averse ways anytime soon.

 

[AnantS]

frontliner on twitter thinks he is fake . engine doesnt sound like hydrogen fuel cell . maybe they added the sound for dramatic effect or something

I think it was just over enthusiastic sound addition.

 

[no smoking]

If the Japanese who are also Asians like us could transform their country in a few decades why should we lag behind.

Japanese did it in 2 ways:
1. The government built up the state-own-companies from ground, when it got certain level of maturity, sold the state-own-companies to private sectors CHEAPLY;
2. Encouraging the private companies investing in military industries, the government guaranteed their profit no matter how bad their products were.

Which way do you like now?

 

[Tridev123]

Japanese did it in 2 ways:
1. The government built up the state-own-companies from ground, when it got certain level of maturity, sold the state-own-companies to private sectors CHEAPLY;
2. Encouraging the private companies investing in military industries, the government guaranteed their profit no matter how bad their products were.

Which way do you like now?

Well, you seem to be an expert on the Japanese and their economy.
We should certainly learn whatever good lessons we can from the Japanese experience. But no country can succeed by just doing a 100% copy paste job.

Each nation has its unique socio economic and cultural ethos and any recipe for economic growth should be custom tailored for its population.
There is no ready made universal formula which can be applied everywhere.

India will find its own unique formula for sustained fast economic growth but will certainly learn from the experience of others.

I was trying to remove the mental block which many people in India find difficult to shed. A feeling that nothing will improve. Which is very much not true.

Taking only a couple of examples.
What was our condition at the time of independence and shortly thereafter regarding food security.
Not enough food grains to feed the population.
Not enough milk to give to our kids.

But we did manage to achieve the Green Revolution and the White Revolution.
Increased food grains production drastically in the next two decades.
Increased milk production drastically in the next two decades.

Though there was some external help in the form of new hybrid and pest resistant varieties of crops most of the hard work was done by our scientists and farmers.

I took the example of Japan to point out that even Asians can achieve excellence and become developed countries. It is not the privilege of only the white skinned Caucasians.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

 

[Azaad]

Well, you seem to be an expert on the Japanese and their economy.
We should certainly learn whatever good lessons we can from the Japanese experience. But no country can succeed by just doing a 100% copy paste job.

Each nation has its unique socio economic and cultural ethos and any recipe for economic growth should be custom tailored for its population.
There is no ready made universal formula which can be applied everywhere.

India will find its own unique formula for sustained fast economic growth but will certainly learn from the experience of others.

I was trying to remove the mental block which many people in India find difficult to shed. A feeling that nothing will improve. Which is very much not true.

Taking only a couple of examples.
What was our condition at the time of independence and shortly thereafter regarding food security.
Not enough food grains to feed the population.
Not enough milk to give to our kids.

But we did manage to achieve the Green Revolution and the White Revolution.
Increased food grains production drastically in the next two decades.
Increased milk production drastically in the next two decades.

Though there was some external help in the form of new hybrid and pest resistant varieties of crops most of the hard work was done by our scientists and farmers.

I took the example of Japan to point out that even Asians can achieve excellence and become developed countries. It is not the privilege of only the white skinned Caucasians.

In case you haven't noticed you're interacting with a Wumao who are perfect bad faith actors. Their intention is never an honest interaction but to show our inferiority & convince you of their superiority.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Is this good or bad?

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

 

[Chinmoy]

Is this good or bad?

Depends on which side of investment you are.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Depends on which side of investment you are.

Yea good for industries that much is given

 

[Physx32]

Just use a thermal.

There's one issue though. Thermal sights are digital, so there will be inherent lag and latency depending on the processing power and refresh rate. NVGs are analogue and essentially real time.