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karn

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The AMCA thread in this forum is 15 Years old. The people that conceptualised the AMCA are probably retired by now. In all these years AMCA only exists in digital renders and toy models and a non flying prototype for ground testing is not even in the fabrication stage. Does it really matter if it is the Babooz/ GOI/ IAF/ ADA /HAL that are holding it up ? Criticism for this level of delays are absolutely warranted.
Perhaps ADA should come out and say that the 2000s AMCA was just an internal "hobby project"..Atleast then we can make sense of this absolute clowshow.
 
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skunk works

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The AMCA thread in this forum is 15 Years old. The people that conceptualised the AMCA are probably retired by now. In all these years AMCA only exists in digital renders and toy models and a non flying prototype for ground testing is not even in the fabrication stage. Does it really matter if it is the Babooz/ GOI/ IAF/ ADA /HAL that are holding it up ? Criticism for this level of delays are absolutely warranted.
Perhaps ADA should come out and say that the 2000s AMCA was just an internal "hobby project"..Atleast then we can make sense of this absolute clowshow.
One of our resident wumaos made a very good observation once.
'india has plans. India has lots of plans. They have a plan for everything.'

While China has tangible weapons (sorry, it doesn't matter if it's a copy or its poorly designed, they will inevitably better at designing them and operating them) we have 3D renders with AONs and CCSs and 42069 different approvals that never seem to materialize. The timelines keep creeping forward, requirements keep ballooning.

So before you worry whether our Chair Force plans to throw 3D renders at the enemy when they jump the border, don't. The plan is very simple.
Show the situation to the public, then emergency purchase foreign maal at 200% markup while people like us wonder 'where are those 80 jets we were supposed to have 10 years ago? '

But that's for us to worry. Babooz and afsars will Meanwhile secure green cards for yet another generation of their children on the blood of jawans fighting with Soviet Era dogshit.
 

TwinTails

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But that's for us to worry. Babooz and afsars will Meanwhile secure green cards for yet another generation of their children on the blood of jawans fighting with Soviet Era dogshit.
This, This is the main crux, salute to you.
images (1).jpeg

If I am not wrong present Defense Minister of India children too are in USA, and why leave DM? Baboos, officers in "relevant ministries" too have offsprings there, no problem with that.
But what type of PATRIOTISM is this?

This is really what is happening? Other nations go through ITERATIONS while building military, in India "perfect product", just saw some general in that Aadi Achint videos, he was saying "Indian military needs perfect products, give us perfect products, we are not Anti-india".

But, nobody, asked man out, "no military product in the world becomes perfect on iteration 1 itself, General sir", it take time, but whom to tell.

You know, Zorawar is coming, after trials, you will see, weight issue in it, don't worry, because it is 25 tonne, bridges will automatically collapse due to it and will become functional automatically for 44 tonne South Korean "MADE IN INDIA paste" Vajra howitzer.

It is fully made in India, because of electronics, well nobody tells generals there that, even that electronics was not perfect in it's Iterarion 1.
 

Azaad

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The AMCA thread in this forum is 15 Years old. The people that conceptualised the AMCA are probably retired by now. In all these years AMCA only exists in digital renders and toy models and a non flying prototype for ground testing is not even in the fabrication stage. Does it really matter if it is the Babooz/ GOI/ IAF/ ADA /HAL that are holding it up ? Criticism for this level of delays are absolutely warranted.
Perhaps ADA should come out and say that the 2000s AMCA was just an internal "hobby project"..Atleast then we can make sense of this absolute clowshow.
AMCA was always supposed to follow the Mk-2 program . If you recall the now infamous T/Ls offered by ADA top brass in the 2021 AI show , AMCA was to make first flight 2 years after Mk-2 & TEDBF , 2 yrs after AMCA.

Not sure if the CDR is frozen but if it is , I expect IAF / MoD to put up a file before CCS for funds to develop a prototype. I think we can expect that to happen this year.
 

fooLIam

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This, This is the main crux, salute to you.View attachment 241505
If I am not wrong present Defense Minister of India children too are in USA, and why leave DM? Baboos, officers in "relevant ministries" too have offsprings there, no problem with that.
But what type of PATRIOTISM is this?

This is really what is happening? Other nations go through ITERATIONS while building military, in India "perfect product", just saw some general in that Aadi Achint videos, he was saying "Indian military needs perfect products, give us perfect products, we are not Anti-india".

But, nobody, asked man out, "no military product in the world becomes perfect on iteration 1 itself, General sir", it take time, but whom to tell.

You know, Zorawar is coming, after trials, you will see, weight issue in it, don't worry, because it is 25 tonne, bridges will automatically collapse due to it and will become functional automatically for 44 tonne South Korean "MADE IN INDIA paste" Vajra howitzer.

It is fully made in India, because of electronics, well nobody tells generals there that, even that electronics was not perfect in it's Iterarion 1.
General failure of this goverment to reign administrative class (babus) and current defence ministers incompetence aside no person who has his children settled in foreign land should be allowed to have public office.while there might be some exception such people hardly have any stakes in nation.
 

jai jaganath

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BC 100 crore ka ek missile ?
I have heard figures of 24 crores when those officers went who misfired went in SUPREME court.. that too without warhead costs how tf it can cost 100 core each bc zircon bhi itna mehnga nhi hoga..
Either the number is much bigger or there are some more things in the contract..
Ig these are new orders for coastal batteries or its with vls launcher for new ships
Either of the case 100 crores is huge
Ig number is more than 200 or there are other approvals for which Dubey ji have not got credible info
 

ezsasa

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One of our resident wumaos made a very good observation once.
'india has plans. India has lots of plans. They have a plan for everything.'

While China has tangible weapons (sorry, it doesn't matter if it's a copy or its poorly designed, they will inevitably better at designing them and operating them) we have 3D renders with AONs and CCSs and 42069 different approvals that never seem to materialize. The timelines keep creeping forward, requirements keep ballooning.

So before you worry whether our Chair Force plans to throw 3D renders at the enemy when they jump the border, don't. The plan is very simple.
Show the situation to the public, then emergency purchase foreign maal at 200% markup while people like us wonder 'where are those 80 jets we were supposed to have 10 years ago? '

But that's for us to worry. Babooz and afsars will Meanwhile secure green cards for yet another generation of their children on the blood of jawans fighting with Soviet Era dogshit.
this chini comparison is good for superficial judgement, but there is more that needs to be taken into account.

India is probably in it's third iteration of evolution of defence policy, which starts with nehru's "we don't need an army, police are good enough for security of the country" to Indira's "holy $hit, the west almost screwed us in 71, we need to align with USSR", to now "USSR has fallen, west is a shady character, we need to diversify and be self-reliant to minimise risk".

chini on the other hand is country where great wall of chin is in middle of the current boundaries, expansionism has been one of their priorities from day 1. policy continuity and vintage matters, India does not have it and it is a fact, because people have been choosing their govts that way.

more over if chin had same transparency levels as us, i really doubt folks would be making these comparisons.

different priorities, different approaches, it is what it is.
 

Tridev123

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One of our resident wumaos made a very good observation once.
'india has plans. India has lots of plans. They have a plan for everything.'

While China has tangible weapons (sorry, it doesn't matter if it's a copy or its poorly designed, they will inevitably better at designing them and operating them) we have 3D renders with AONs and CCSs and 42069 different approvals that never seem to materialize. The timelines keep creeping forward, requirements keep ballooning.

So before you worry whether our Chair Force plans to throw 3D renders at the enemy when they jump the border, don't. The plan is very simple.
Show the situation to the public, then emergency purchase foreign maal at 200% markup while people like us wonder 'where are those 80 jets we were supposed to have 10 years ago? '

But that's for us to worry. Babooz and afsars will Meanwhile secure green cards for yet another generation of their children on the blood of jawans fighting with Soviet Era dogshit.
Though your caustic sarcasm is very strong,I find a lot of rightful angst.
I agree. The approach to procuring indigenous weapons should be different from the approach for buying imported weapons.

For imported weapons, an initial small order to certify that the promises made by the foreign OEM have been kept is not an unwise strategy. If the Government wants to establish a system of checks and balances to ensure that foreign OEM's don't take India for a ride. Its ok.

But while buying indigenous weapons from Indian companies whether public or private the procurement rules should be greatly simplified and bulk initial orders can be given. After ensuring that the performance meets minimum requirements. We need to take the risk and place trust in our companies. Iteration based improvements should be green lighted. Obviously the Government would have done some vetting to ensure that only companies with the right background are shortlisted.

Now if in the worst case scenario an Indian company cheats the Government then it should not be difficult to penalise that company. Because the assets of the company are in India and the management is also Indian.

So the defence procurement process will be two dimensional.
1.The easy, trust based fast track approval for Indian companies including possibility of initial bulk orders.
2.A more rigorous approval process for buying imported weapons from foreign OEM's with emphasis on verification of specifications and other requirements.

Now how do we classify an defence product as indigenous. Should it be 100% indigenous including all the components or slightly less indigenous with some percentage of imported components allowed.Should the IPR belong to the Indian company., These questions can be answered and a consensus arrived at.

Indian defence companies which establish an R&D wing and do genuine research should be rewarded. They should be the first to be considered for awarding arms contracts. If the basic requirements are met.

The Government Bureaucracy should not play the role of a barrier and should rather be a facilitator. Probably the decision making process can be made less time consuming and non hierarchical. No doubt changing attitudes which have been made sacrosanct over the decades require a lot of effort.
 

NoobWannaLearn

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The test would be done from a trailer based platform. Only after proof of tech, a full scale prototype would be made for heavy load testing.
So if everything goes well we will have our own emals? Without anyone else's help?
 

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