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Javelin_Sam

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question

if Kaveri Dry forks are good enough now that they can be given to Mig-29 or Su-30MKI tier testbeds for further development as well as also considered for that Ghaatak UCAV project;

how come they are not making a scaled-down fork off that for desi trainer projects like HJT-36 and so?

wikipedia suggests that for HJT-36 we sought help of russians for getting an engine developed that resulted in NPO Saturn AL-55 with rated thrust of ~17.5 some kN which in turn was simply a scaled down fork from their already successful Al-31 or Al-41 line of engines used in Sukhois

if russians could do it, why cannot we for a far simpler project like a jet trainer engine especially now when Kaveri has progressed this much ? a dry Kaveri derivative fork in ~18 to 20 kN thrust range will do it

Alternatively, putting HTFE-25 on it ? though a lot of people would say HTFE-25 is already there in development but it'd be probably an overkill for that tiny of a trainer jet

in any way, we do need a future jet trainer when those brit Hawks come to their end of lifecycle and that Marut fork HLFT-42 'Maruti' should have been done by then and so; but giving to its LIFT like capability i kinda wonder if that much of a jet is good enough for basic jet trainer roles

your opinions on this matter, please?
You can't just downgrade an engine like that to fit a smaller aircraft. With the technical knowledge and expertise we gained, we have to design one for the smaller application. Doable? Of course yes. But it requires cash and New Delhi needs to give approval for the new engine project.
 

Johny_Baba

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You can't just downgrade an engine like that to fit a smaller aircraft. With the technical knowledge and expertise we gained, we have to design one for the smaller application. Doable? Of course yes. But it requires cash and New Delhi needs to give approval for the new engine project.
this website, it's in Czech but google translate works

quoting the translated parts

New Russian engine for light and training aircraft of the early 21st century
AL-55
Saturn - Ljulka, Russia ( project )
Saljut, Russia ( production )
UMPO, Russia ( production )


AL-55, universal dual carriage motor, was developed on the own initiative of the NPO Saturn (chief designer Mikhail Gojchenberg) s maximum use of design knowledge from the successful AL-31F engine. Compared to the AL-31F, the engine is 4 times weaker and lighter, but in comparison with the equally heavy French Larzac from Alpha Jetu develops AL-55 40% more thrust. Sample AL-55, made by Saljut, was first demonstrated at the China-98 airshow. The engine was created for the propulsion of training and light aircraft - eg. Jak-130 or MiG-AT. AL-55 is fully interchangeable with Larzac 04R20, but is significantly more modern and has a wider envelope of conditions under which it can work effectively. The engine life was set at 2000 hours of operation.

The design of the AL-55 engine allows you to create a number of different designs with a thrust from 1760 to 5000 kp for light training, light combat, light supersonic fighter aircraft as well as unmanned combat and reconnaissance means. The basis of all derived engines is a gas generator (core) with 5-speed. compressor and 1-stage. turbine, with a degree of compression of 7.5 and a flow rate of air of 9 kg / s. The following versions and derivatives are taken into account.

  • AL-55I- the first version, which will be practically deployed. It should be practically identical to the basic version of the AL-55. In 2004, these engines won a tender to power HJT-36's new Indian training aircraft from HAL. The defeated competitor was the French Snecma with Larzac engines. The engine has a three-stage blower, a five-stage compressor and a low-pressure and high-pressure turbine in one stage. The engine thrust is 1760 kp. Ground engine tests began in May 2006, when four engines were available. The tests were accompanied by problems, and during the stand tests of the engine installed in the MiG-AT, it even started to burn. The contract with India included the delivery of 18 pre-series AL-55I units by the end of 2007, but according to information from December 2007, the customer did not receive any of them and is in danger, that HAL will eventually opt for the French Larzac engines. If AL-55I did succeed,it would be licensed in HAL in the number of approximately 1000 units, if the contract were carried out according to plan, production would start at the turn of 2007 and 2008.
  • AL-55I-UVT - equipped with a nozzle with a changeable thrust vector. The design of the nozzle enables the installation of the engine even on very light single-engine aircraft. The move remains 1760 kp.
  • AL-55M - probably further improved AL-55I.
  • AL-55F - engine with additional combustion chamber, thrust 2200/3500 kp, consumption in forging mode 1.65 kg.kp-1.h-1. The estimated engine weight is 425 kg.
  • AL-57 - engine with higher bypass ratio, thrust 2600 kp.
  • AL-155 - engine with additional combustion chamber, thrust 3200/5000 kp.
  • AL-61 - no-make (?) variant with a pull of 4600 kp.
1704537523941.png

Older sources state that civilian variants with the designation have been prepared AL-55T and AL-55TD, intended for regional airplanes with a take - off mass of 9 to 12 tonnes. Maybe it's type AL-57. One of the more powerful variants is also considered for the possible modernization of Su-25 aircraft. The aircraft's current, technologically 40-year-old engines have a thrust of 4100 kp (4500 kp at Su-25T / TM). With new engines with 40% lower consumption, the range of the aircraft would be 50% extended. Planned modifications of the AL-55 are to be used on persective Indian aircraft HJT-39, Chinese L-15 and K-8 and Italian M-346.

After comparison with the competing RD-1700, which is calculated for serial MiGů-AT, the AL-55 engine has smaller dimensions, higher thrust and lower fuel consumption. The price of both engines should be between 500 and $ 700,000 (approximately 20 miles. CZK). The operation of AL-55 engines is expected until 2035.

CHARACTERISTICS OF THE AL-55I ENGINE
Engine thrust on maximum mode1760 kp
Specific consumption in maximum mode0.71 kg.kp-1.h-1
Maximum air flow rate28.8 kg.s-1
Engine bypass ratio0.515
Maximum degree of compression on a low pressure compressor2.3
Maximum degree of compression on a high pressure compressor7.5
Total degree of compression behind the compressor17.5
Total engine length1950 mm
Maximum engine diameter462 mm
Engine weight355 kg


AL-55I-UVT, omnidirectionally deflectable outlet nozzle
1704537506092.png

1704537575432.png

AL-55
1704537590348.png

AL-55I
1704537668795.png

1704537674687.png

1704537688330.png


> mentions of forking Al-55 from Al-31F, even a thrust-vectoring variant existed
> engine scalability mentioned across different variants from 17 kN to (probably larger one) 32 kN on normal, and with afterburner it could reach upto 50 kN on that 32 kN variant and so
 

NutCracker

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The Ashok-Leyland JV 600hp engine is liquid cooled I believe.
View attachment 234932

The new 1500hp engine is different from the engine from the Bharat Power Pack mentioned 10 years back. It's RFI mentioned oil cooling so it might be oil cooled.
Is it just me or the second guy from left, white beard and glasses look somewhat familiar? :shock:
.
Yes. Old picture.

For those who couldn't recognise.

 

jai jaganath

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I have absolute zero knowledge of technicalities involved in EW... so someone who understands EW plz read this & comment... especially the last line of 2nd paragraph


The last line of this👇 para

View attachment 235228
Was reading it although no technical details mentioned but I stopped the moment I read cyber and space command
U can't expect technicalities from a paki
 

vidhwanshak

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Corvus Splendens

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Solved would be a little bit of an overstatment, it’s still going to be a challenge. We need to remember that Bharat Forge has only acquired stake in the Indian Arm of the company.
Will pave way for local production and an indigenized supply chain of components sooner or later. Ukrainians were fine with China taking motor sich. They need the money right now.
 

standard snowball

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That is not mk2

This one is mk2

View attachment 213402

Mk2 is mounted on 6x6 HMV
Mk1 is mounted on 8x8 HMV
So let me drop this from Know your Army Festival 2024 (Lucknow)
Mk2 is based on 6×6
PXL_20240106_095043546.jpg
PXL_20240106_095109046.jpg
PXL_20240106_095213014.jpg
PXL_20240106_095217621.jpg

I have a few videos of the vehicle and it's internals too, would be posting them as soon as I figure out how to upload them here
 

Love Charger

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