DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

Azaad

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@Azaad

I'm not against DRDO. Some of their verticals like Missile/EW/GTRE dept are good. But some are shit.

Biggest flaw in Tapas.. T-tail.
Ever wondered why no other drone makers were DRDOesque "smart".
That design requires highly strengthened parts which increase the weight drastically. Its empty weight is unparallel to anything in it's category.

Navy should'nt be forced to use it. Army can have use cases and convenience to use maximum of its loitering time, as I explained below. The capability difference is 250%.
You're getting into the nitty gritty of operations. If the IN has special requirements that the Tapas cannot meet , it's obvious they won't opt for it in its current condition.

My larger point was pertaining to the nature of involvement of the armed forces. Not holding a brief for either DRDO or ADE which has the worst of the reputation of all the DRDO labs . Knowing this , the armed forces should've put their foot down. What we now have is one little science project where ADE gets to learn all about drones while being paid for it
 

Chinmoy

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Do u need all platforms performing 24*7 surveillance
I mean male drones
There is requirement for 155 male drones
In case of army do they need such endurance all the time
For a particular amount of money they are ready to import extremely costly foreign drones in long term and ditch domestic capability and technology
Bolne ke pehle socho.
If I want to keep a location under 24 hr surveillance, I would require one drone with 24 hrs flight endurance which could do that. But if I am offered a drone with 18 hr flight endurance, in that case I would have to cough out money for two drones instead of one.
 

Chinmoy

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Is it a commandment ? Will 18 hrs in Mk-1 not serve the purpose followed by an Mk-2 with 24 hrs endurance ? I bet if you've a child you'd blame for not being 2 yrs in 365 days considering him a classic case of stunted growth .
No its not a commandant unless you don't deviate by 12 hrs of what you have initially shown.
 

jai jaganath

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Bolne ke pehle socho.
If I want to keep a location under 24 hr surveillance, I would require one drone with 24 hrs flight endurance which could do that. But if I am offered a drone with 18 hr flight endurance, in that case I would have to cough out money for two drones instead of one.
So ditching indigenous program and technology where u invested time and money is the option?
If it's tapas u can get cost advantage and moreover the money spent would be into the nation
So u can operate 2 drones
Yeah operational cost may rise but u will not always require 24 hrs except specific time and period and once u get it or order it the agency could develop further iterations to reach the requirements by military
 

Chinmoy

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So ditching indigenous program and technology where u invested time and money is the option?
If it's tapas u can get cost advantage and moreover the money spent would be into the nation
So u can operate 2 drones
Yeah operational cost may rise but u will not always require 24 hrs except specific time and period and once u get it or order it the agency could develop further iterations to reach the requirements by military
Who the F has ditched indigenous program? Has government pulled plug on Tapas funding?

And on what basis you are saying that we don't require 24 hour surveillance in 7 days a week? Not just OPEX, it is going to effect your CAPEX too.
 

jai jaganath

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Who the F has ditched indigenous program? Has government pulled plug on Tapas funding?

And on what basis you are saying that we don't require 24 hour surveillance in 7 days a week? Not just OPEX, it is going to effect your CAPEX too.
No one will establish a plant for just 4 drones
They have been conveyed that orders will be way more
And Hermes will definitely kill tapas

24*7 surveillance is definitely high tempo ops atleast for army and Air force
It will be needed during conflict or war or any calamity
And yes that will consume more opex and capex but we have to sacrifice it to support local industry and technology development
And more importantly no one will stop here further blocks with improvements will be developed based on tapas to fill military requirements and previous ones could be upgraded atleast in this way it will form numbers which is very vital which u can't achieve with foreign equipments
 

NutCracker

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Since there is no topic about the Armenian army, I am publishing it here. The Armenian Army continues to strengthen its units with foreign-made weapons. Armenia reportedly signed a $41 million contract with the Indian company Zen Technologies Ltd to purchase the ZADS anti-drone system. The ZADS complex was developed in 2020 and allows for classification, tracking and passive surveillance of drones. The complex is equipped with a radio frequency drone detector, radar, video cameras and drone suppression equipment. 3D X-band radar detects drones and provides precise target coordinates to jam drone communications. The video cameras of the Zen complex are capable of identifying a drone at a range of up to 3 kilometers. The complex can be equipped with a special drone with a hanging net to capture small-sized enemy drones. The exact characteristics of the ZADS complex are unknown.

GGWP Indian private MIC.

-Quoting into relevant thread.
 

Azaad

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DRDO himself has given up on the project and started Archer NG. Also this reply sums it up -
And how much does the Archer NG owe to the learning curve from Lakshya onwards . It's bad project management with DRDO as usual trying to reinvent the wheel instead of being incremental in their approach . What exactly are the services & MoD doing while ADE continues with its science project ?

Take it from me , if the total requirment of MALE drones are 155 , we might import / assemble a quarter of the total qty , induct a sub standard Mk-1 which may or may not have the capacity to be upgraded , improve on it by inducting an Mk-1a which though vastly superior to its predecessor would still not be up to the mark & finally come up with the definitive Mk-2 which'd surpass the SQRs.

This has been the normal SOP witnessed over 4 decades & believe it or not DRDO is actually improving its track record. Then again this is the ADE we're talking about which I can't decide is more incompetent or jinxed if not both with an unenviable track record in delivering the finished product on time & conforming mostly to the SQRs.

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Honestly, we give too long a rope to our PSUs and research labs. They are not immature organizations anymore. We are a trillion $ economy, with the largest pool of talent perhaps only second to China. We should set our standards higher. Half of the Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, Boeing, Rolce-Royce, etc. are being managed by Indian or Indian-origin employees.

The only thing DRDO/PSUs need is to shed the govt. job attitude, loosen their pockets for hiring good talent instead of hundreds of freebies they get, and have a direct chain of responsibility and accountability.

Should we remember how within 2-3 years the entire micro-UAV & anti-drone market was taken over by budding, talented private players? DRDO kept making a single fucking quadcopter UAV (Netra) for 10 years and saw only single-digit numbers service. Then drone startups like IdeaForce, Garuda Airspace, etc. came and bagged huge orders from forces (now don't tell me this piss poor startups somehow bribed officials).
None of the top business houses be it Reliance or Adani or surprise surprise the Tatas have a culture of investing in R&D . This is true of most of the older business houses too . It's just not in their DNA & it's not in the DNA of defence to bestow it's good fortunes on those who are miserly with their R&D budgets. This isn't just the case of the DRDO here. All our old respected business houses stand indicted.

So what's the solution. Promote Young Turks like you've named to bring a fresh perspective to this field & by the looks of it they're succeeding where the older ones are plodding around masquerading their screwdrivergiri as ToT , though beyond a point these Young Turks would be vulnerable to takeovers whether thru inducement or thru underhanded means by the giants in the field .

MoDs policies on drones seem quite enlightened from the looks of it at first glance though I admit to have superficial knowledge about the topic at hand . It's understood that services PSQRs are designed with a view to slowly graduate the percentage of indigenous components & sub assemblies from COTS . I believe though this policy holds true for micro miniature & small drones though eventually they'd be adapted to larger drones as well.

This sets the stage for a whole host of competitors to get in & if they're far sighted intending to be serious players they'd start indigenizing sooner rather than later. Once the norms becomes more stringent , the wheat gets separated from the chaff. Fly by night operators get busted , old business houses with their la dee dah attitude either get side lined or they loosen their purse strings to pocket a few promising start ups but the day will be carried by these Young Turks not all of whom can be cowed or bought .
 

Corvus Splendens

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Then why was the 10 year long circus with the WhAP necessary. Asks for an amphibious APC, then deletes the amphibious requirement, orders 14 examples over 10 years and then boom big order from abroad. Refuses multiple turret options, opts for BMP turret and then shitcans the whole thing.
1699634826641.png

Now I'm waiting for ANALysts to explain in which aspects is a fukin LAV 3 superior, if at all.
 

Azaad

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Then why was the 10 year long circus with the WhAP necessary. Asks for an amphibious APC, then deletes the amphibious requirement, orders 14 examples over 10 years and then boom big order from abroad. Refuses multiple turret options, opts for BMP turret and then shitcans the whole thing.
View attachment 228803
Now I'm waiting for ANALysts to explain in which aspects is a fukin LAV 3 superior, if at all.
Both will be inducted. We're paying protection money or hafta for all our insolence on Canada , not condemning the Russians & what's worse importing their oil at a discount , refining them & selling it to the west at a whopping profit margin among other vexing activities to the Americans. Bhavnaon ko samjho.
 

Haldilal

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Both will be inducted. We're paying protection money or hafta for all our insolence on Canada , not condemning the Russians & what's worse importing their oil at a discount , refining them & selling it to the west at a whopping profit margin among other vexing activities to the Americans. Bhavnaon ko samjho.
Ya'll Nibbiars The WhAFV is under the IDDM. So they will have to Induct it at any cost. Just hope the numbers are significant.

The Token 14 are WhAP are the IPMB Non amphibious ones variants.
 

Corvus Splendens

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Both will be inducted. We're paying protection money or hafta for all our insolence on Canada , not condemning the Russians & what's worse importing their oil at a discount , refining them & selling it to the west at a whopping profit margin among other vexing activities to the Americans. Bhavnaon ko samjho.
If we had self-respect, an iteration of this would be our service rifle in 2023, and not token orders from security forces.
1699636186849.png
 

Corvus Splendens

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Not all into small arms . You'd have to elaborate your argument.
I kinda feel as if Army's argument for the stupid 7.62x39 round stems largely from the AK-203 deal needing to happen. This evolved INSAS/Kalantak thing is a decent design with an upper and lower receiver. Front handguard is crap and the rail on it will probably not hold zero after a reassembly but that can be addressed. 5.56 ammo is still good for anti body armor at ranges. If we had the resolve, we'd spend time and resources into improving our manufacturing quality.
 

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