DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Lonewarrior]

You sure this is the final product and not a prototype

You're totally right, it's probably just a proof of concept and it'll see multiple iterative improvements

Now it's my turn to ask a question
When we'll make the final iteration and let's assume it'll be on par with today's market trend...where will be the market standing at that time?

 

[AnantS]

even if prototype.. the final product would be along same lines. You cant prototype a hms an expect final product to be hmds.

Again I think issue with project while comparing with Turkey is simple - both are making use of knowledge they have access to. DRDO must have taken it up as substitution project. Anyways I thought Samtel was making HMDS in collaboration with Elbit ro IAI !?

 

[standard snowball]

even if prototype.. the final product would be along same lines. You cant prototype a hms an expect final product to be hmds.

Again I think issue with project while comparing with Turkey is simple - both are making use of knowledge they have access to. DRDO must have taken it up as substitution project. Anyways I thought Samtel was making HMDS in collaboration with Elbit ro IAI !?

We too have access to Israeli HMDS (the best in the world, even American companies collaborate with them to offer HMDS to US armed forces) then why are we unable to make a HMDS along the lines of DASH IV HMDS.
The problem here is not what we have access to rather it's our own ingenuity or lack thereof and lack of far sightedness.
When DRDO was making this HMDS did it not cross their mind that what they are making would become obsolete rather quickly (how stupid could you be to not realise that a 40 years old 1980's design will not work in modern warfare)

 

[standard snowball]

DRDO must have taken it up as substitution project

Even if a substitution project couldn't they make a more advanced HMDS or does replacement means there shouldn't be an upgrade in capabilities.
When you are asked with replacing a 1980's item you don't replace it with a 1980s object you replace it with a current, if possible futuristic object.

 

[AnantS]

Even if a substitution project couldn't they make a more advanced HMDS or does replacement means there shouldn't be an upgrade in capabilities.
When you are asked with replacing a 1980's item you don't replace it with a 1980s object you replace it with a current, if possible futuristic object.

Import Substitution means 1:1 copy.

 

[standard snowball]

Import Substitution means 1:1 copy.

That's a very shitty outlook, like let's make a 1:1 copy, then 4-5 years down the line ask for an upgrade to a modern HMDS, essentially showing the short sightedness of both armed forces and DRDO, why couldn't you make a modern HMDS in the first place instead of throwing money down the drain for replicating an obsolete item.
(It's like throwing money on making a mig 21 clone in 2023 even though that money could have been used to make a Tejas)

Had they tried to make a modern HMDS they could have upgraded the old aircrafts and made a subsystem for future projects in one go

 

[AnantS]

That's a very shitty outlook, like let's make a 1:1 copy, then 4-5 years down the line ask for an upgrade to a modern HMDS, essentially showing the short sightedness of both armed forces and DRDO, why couldn't you make a modern HMDS in the first place instead of throwing money down the drain for replicating an obsolete item.
(It's like throwing money on making a mig 21 clone in 2023 even though that money could have been used to make a Tejas)

Had they tried to make a modern HMDS they could have upgraded the old aircrafts and made a subsystem for future projects in one go

Questions for you.
What is import substitution?
What necessitates import substitution?
Are all generational upgrades designed to work as plug and play in legacy systems(aircraft)?

Import Substitution is not upgrade. Its for increasing maintainability of legacy(in our case Soviet or British or French) assets while decreasing capex due to saving on forgien exchange. Not every legacy asset can go under major upgrade.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

 

[Tactical Doge]

The markup monies is taking a vacation in Swiss accounts

 

[Lonewarrior]

Indian Navy can easily make an Indian Navy with the funds embezzled by Indian Air Force

 

[standard snowball]

What is import substitution?

Exactly what it sounds like, substituting foreign systems with indigenous one, however it does not you substitute a 40 year old and obsolete foreign crap with an equally obsolete indigenous crap.

What necessitates import substitution?

Many things like sanctions, saving forex, reducing dependency on foreign suppliers etc however none of these reasons should restrict us from attempting an upgrade wherever possible, specially when you are going to need that upgrade few years down the line anyways.

Import Substitution is not upgrade

yes, Import Substitution is not an upgrade however it gives us an opportunity to upgrade, specially if we have the foresight for it

Its for increasing maintainability of legacy(in our case Soviet or British or French) assets while decreasing capex due to saving on forgien exchange

Remember when we replaced alloys used in our Soviet engines, we not only replaced them, we upgraded them with a better quality alloy, why because that replacement request opened up an opportunity for DRDO/MIDHANI to do more than just 1:1 replacement,
A similar thing could have been attempted here, if DRDO/IAF had the foresight.

Not every legacy asset can go under major upgrade.

Upgrading to a more modern HMDS is not called a major upgrade, you know what would be called a major upgrade, upgrading mission computers or engines or radars would be called a major upgrade.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

LCA armed with Astra A2A BVR Missiles

 

[DumbPilot]

Upgrading to a more modern HMDS is not called a major upgrade, you know what would be called a major upgrade, upgrading mission computers or engines or radars would be called a major upgrade.

Respectfully, I would say no. The amount of situational awareness one can have with a proper HMCS is not comparable with the 3UM HMCS we have - the latter just slaves the infrared missile seekerhead to where the pilot is looking(to allow high aspect shots without aligning the plane to the bandit first)

When this came out, the Soviets were at the top of their game and the Americans had a nasty shock when they got a lot of killed in exercises with East German flankers operating this sight.

However, as with most things American R&D, they came up with a better version - the ones used by Western nations show all sorts of things: ground targeting information, where the radar is looking on the ground or in the air, where exactly the friendlies are, where exactly the planes locked up by the friendlies are, where exactly the plane is currently and so on.

A proper HMCS is a big upgrade.

 

[Kuldeepm952]

Totally agree, everyone has forgotten...
...starting from DRDO themselves
View attachment 217762
If you're selling something saying HMDS and then expecting everyone to judge it against a HMS then how's that fair!

Moreover in current era no one's going for a HMS anymore, the current trend is of HMDS. So isn't that what you should make?

It's a helmet to incorporate HMDS, not the HMDS itself. I doubt DEBEL would be given the task to develop a HMDS & I don't think there are any efforts by drdo to develop a HMDS, atleast afaik from public domain.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Indian Navy can easily make an Indian Navy with the funds embezzled by Indian Air Force

And be 100% more competent

 

[DumbPilot]

And be 100% more competent

I wouldn't be so sure.

All the branches of military that are assured a huge budget are the ones most complacent. Army, then Air Force, and in a few cases even the Navy.

If you have heard about how the tactical and strategic missile development under India happened, then you would know that to actually excel, they need to be treated like paupers and struggle. As @binayak95 as pointed out earlier, I believe that has only really happened with the Navy - they couldn't buy very costly ships, so they were forced to work from home.

 

[standard snowball]

Respectfully, I would say no. The amount of situational awareness one can have with a proper HMCS is not comparable with the 3UM HMCS we have

I agree that a proper HMCS would be a huge capability jump from our current nearly obsolete HMCS, (and that's why I am against this DRDO abomination) however my criteria for a major or minor upgrade (in this particular case) was how difficult would be to apply those upgrades,
eg. Changing a fighter's mission computer would be infinitely more harder than changing its HMD system

doubt DEBEL would be given the task to develop a HMDS

DEBEL just made the oxygen mask of the HMDS not the whole HMDS, read the documents more carefully.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

https://m.economictimes.com/news/defence/bhel-jv-among-3-bidders-for-armys-guns-contract/articleshow/102621199.cms:crying

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[FireStar]

MILHUB.TECH - Everything military

Everything military

milhub.tech

it seems americans are going for their own iron dome

 

[Fatalis]

https://m.economictimes.com/news/defence/bhel-jv-among-3-bidders-for-armys-guns-contract/articleshow/102621199.cms:crying

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