DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[blackleaf]

Akash NG estimated weight 350kg, Estimated speed Mach 3, dual pulse single motor, aerodynamic range ? Estimated effective range 80km

(Note effective range of 275kg MRSAM is 70kg and PAC-3 weight 320kg, range against aircraft 120km, Aster 30NT weight 450kg range against aircraft 150km)

AAD weight 1300kg, estimated speed Mach 4.5, single motor (dual pulse or single pulse Unknown),

Range, my guess

Aerodynamic 500km
Against SRBM 40km
Against fighter aircraft 250km
Against AWACS & other slow aircraft 350km

I saw that the listed warhead weight of the Barak-8 was surprisingly large at 60kg. Usually the new western missiles have much smaller warheads. The Aster is supposed to have a warhead of 15kg and some of the newer American missiles have less than 10kg warheads and are hit to kill.
60kg is more like Russia or Chinese SAMs.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Akash NG estimated weight 350kg, Estimated speed Mach 3, dual pulse single motor, aerodynamic range ? Estimated effective range 80km

(Note effective range of 275kg MRSAM is 70kg and PAC-3 weight 320kg, range against aircraft 120km, Aster 30NT weight 450kg range against aircraft 150km)

AAD weight 1300kg, estimated speed Mach 4.5, single motor (dual pulse or single pulse Unknown),

Range, my guess

Aerodynamic 500km
Against SRBM 40km
Against fighter aircraft 250km
Against AWACS & other slow aircraft 350km

C'mon Mate, do you really think things are this straight forward!?
Aise thode hi hota hai...

Let's see a rudimentary "efficiency" of all the said missiles
1. For LRSAM the total weight is 284kg, warhead is 60kg
> 78.8% of missile is missile, range 70km for 224kg of missile

2. For PAC-3 MSE the total weight is 373kg, warhead is 70kg
> 81.2% of missile is missile, range 60km for 303kg of missile (Note : This 303kg of missile also includes the propellant for DACS)

3. For PAC-3 CRI the total weight is 312kg, warhead is 0.4kg (yup, it's HTK)
> 99.8% of missile is missile, range 30km for 311kg of missile (Note : This 311kg of missile also includes the propellant for DACS)

4. For Aster 30NT the total weight is 450kg, warhead is 15kg
> 96.6% of the missile is missile, range 150km for 435kg of missile (Note : This 435kg of missile also includes a considerable amount of propellant for pif-paf system)

(NOTE : All calculations are made with the assumption that all missile's guidance/airframe/TVC weighs the same. They use the same propellant type)

So now you'll see things are not that simple.
For example, Aster 30NT has such a huge range not because it weighs 450kg; it's because after just a few seconds of launch the booster separates reducing drag - weight and only a 112kg dart continues the flight...quite similar to an APFSDS. Also it uses DACS as it's primary control mechanism as opposed to fins, resulting in much less energy wastage.
In case of PAC-3 CRI the range is just 30km despite having almost 100% "missile", seems weird. But of that 100% of missile not all is there for thrust, a good chunk goes into its DACS thruster


Similarly for AAD you show have a look at its contemporaries.
1. THAAD is 900kg, 0kg warhead, range 200km
2. 5V55U is 1470kg, 133kg warhead, range 150km

AAD is 1200kg, 80kg warhead...now you decide what it's range should be

 

[Lonewarrior]

BDL website - MRSAM, weight 275kg, dual pulse, 70km
Aero India - LRSAM, weight 284kg, dual pulse, 70km

Hey @Arihant Roy please kill me...can't take it anymore
🥲

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

 

[Arihant Roy]

Ballistic missiles can be categorised into the following 5 categories based on their payload/ bus and propulsion.

Iranians recently unveiled their so called hypersonic Fattah missile and were produly bragging it as falling to category 4.

Well folks, our Agni-2 MRV which we call BGRV because it's a MaRV taken to the next level is already in this category. And Agni-2 flew with this RV/ payload way back in 98. We are atleast more than 2 decades ahead of what IRGC will be designing and developing in the next couple of years.

Those 2 HAM thrusters can be used both for making course corrections , maneuvering in exo atm as well as providing a modicum of thrust to maintain RV speeds once it has entered the atmosphere .

You can think of the Agni 2 RV as a low lift ro drag ratio ~3 - 3.5 HGV similar to the CHGB of LRHW.

We are far ahead in this field than what most Western missiles experts think and assume.

Snehesh Philip of Print has mentioned in an article that according to officials, Agni P will not be replacing Agni-1 and 2. I believe since both Agni-1 / 2 cost quite a lot of money, they will most certainly get a life xtension if they haven't got already and continue to remain in service and serve Bharat. Once their prescribed TTSL expires , they will be launched as part of routine SFC user trials so as to maintain proficiency of the missileers , launch and maintenance crews. Some will also be modified with telemetry to serve as live targets for BMD phase 2. Its not as if that since Agni P has arrived ,we will just be taking the deployed ones out of active operational service and simply phase them. No, it doesn't work in that manner since each of these missiles cost the exchequer quite a lot of Rs to build and maintain over the years.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Ballistic missiles can be categorised into the following 5 categories based on their payload/ bus and propulsion.

View attachment 209477

Iranians recently unveiled their so called hypersonic Fattah missile and were produly bragging it as falling to category 4.

Well folks, our Agni-2 MRV which we call BGRV because it's a MaRV taken to the next level is already in this category. And Agni-2 flew with this RV/ payload way back in 98. We are atleast more than 2 decades ahead of what IRGC will be designing and developing in the next couple of years.

View attachment 209479

Those 2 HAM thrusters can be used both for making course corrections , maneuvering in exo atm as well as providing a modicum of thrust to maintain RV speeds once it has entered the atmosphere .

You can think of the Agni 2 RV as a low lift ro drag ratio ~3 - 3.5 HGV similar to the CHGB of LRHW.

We are far ahead in this field than what most Western missiles experts think and assume.

Snehesh Philip of Print has mentioned in an article that according to officials, Agni P will not be replacing Agni-1 and 2. I believe since both Agni-1 / 2 cost quite a lot of money, they will most certainly get a life xtension if they haven't got already and continue to remain in service and serve Bharat. Once their prescribed TTSL expires , they will be launched as part of routine SFC user trials so as to maintain proficiency of the missileers , launch and maintenance crews. Some will also be modified with telemetry to serve as live targets for BMD phase 2. Its not as if that since Agni P has arrived ,we will just be taking the deployed ones out of active operational service and simply phase them. No, it doesn't work in that manner since each of these missiles cost the exchequer quite a lot of Rs to build and maintain over the years.

Arre...no need to go that far, there's another shortcut of reaching that conclusion

When we tested ASAT everyone went bonkers on how...ab dushman ke upgrah honge nest-o-nabut, Cheen daanto tale ungliyan daba lega, Pakistan ke pairon tale zameen khisak jaayegi...but only a handful were able to understand all nuances of that test.

An ASAT missile is the worst weapon to deal with a SAT. Period
The debris will damage your own satellites, the cost would be huge, would require multiple launches. No one's ever going to use ASAT missiles when EW can do everything way more efficiently.

Instead when an ASAT engages a satellite in any test it validates few points
1. Your heat shielding technology is mature enough to save the highly sensitive EO seeker from atmospheric friction
2. Your micro and nano recation thrusters are advanced enough to do a hit-to-kill interception on a small MicroSat-R at hypersonic speed
3. You have perfected all the softwares and algorithms to calculate the interception point

And if these points are validated then it means you have matured the technology to make a...
...kill vehicle based anti-ballistic missile
...a MaRV/MIRV
...a AShM MaRV with EO seeker

 

[Lonewarrior]

Snehesh Philip of Print has mentioned in an article that according to officials, Agni P will not be replacing Agni-1 and 2. I believe since both Agni-1 / 2 cost quite a lot of money, they will most certainly get a life xtension if they haven't got already and continue to remain in service and serve Bharat. Once their prescribed TTSL expires , they will be launched as part of routine SFC user trials so as to maintain proficiency of the missileers , launch and maintenance crews. Some will also be modified with telemetry to serve as live targets for BMD phase 2. Its not as if that since Agni P has arrived ,we will just be taking the deployed ones out of active operational service and simply phase them. No, it doesn't work in that manner since each of these missiles cost the exchequer quite a lot of Rs to build and maintain over the years.

I don't think that's how a "replacement" is supposed to work

Well remember there's no assembly line for a ballistic missile. Each missile is made on its own. So if they switched to Agni-P then there will be no loss in terms of investment in infrastructure like tooling or assembly...they will simply stop making new Agni-I/II and start making Agni-P. And as for existing Agni-I/II they'll simply move to "reserve" status where they'll be second choice of missile if conflict happens and if not then they'll be slowly expended in trainings.

 

[rone]

Leaked Raytheon project info,

15.27 MB folder on MEGA

125 files and 27 subfolders

mega.nz

 

[Fatalis]

 

[Lonewarrior]

StarStreak bhi banayenge, Mistral bhi banayenge!?

 

[jai jaganath]

So no orders for bdl till 2024
They are expecting most of the orders in period of 2025-2028
Wow kya timeline hai
So we can safely assume no orders for lch till 2025-26 as that time they would complete their all procedures and trails
That's what I understood

Edit- just noticed they have written realization
That means starting of delivery or orders being placed
Pls enlightening me if it's starting of delivery then my assumptions would be damn wrong

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

What are you talking about bro the acceptance of necessity for the certification of the pre-qualification of the testing of the RFQ for pre-drafting of the RFI 18th draft has JUST been issued yesterday. Cringy Patches design krna start kardo, first flight by wnd of the week. /s

Don't forget testing on all type testing the all weather testing then testing on moon then Mars then going back to Drawing board then repeat , in the process having some Chai Biscoot somasa meetings and calling it a day once some western country throws us a biscoot with similar design mostly screwdriver work

 

[Fatalis]

 

[no smoking]

In one test in 2011, Shaurya flew for 700 kms at just 40 km alt. It cruised at around M7.5. Look at the two radar horizon slant lines in the above pic. Shaurya will be undetectable for most of its trajectory due to its low flight alt.

Are you sure?
Based on your own picture, for 1800km range, when the missile reach 140km altitude (the higher radar horizontal line), it will be detected by radar.
For 700km range, the detected height is 30km (second radar horizontal line).

In other words, in most of the missile's trajectories, it shows on the radar screen.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

 

[Arihant Roy]

Are you sure?
Based on your own picture, for 1800km range, when the missile reach 140km altitude (the higher radar horizontal line), it will be detected by radar.
For 700km range, the detected height is 30km (second radar horizontal line).

In other words, in most of the missile's trajectories, it shows on the radar screen.

Thanks for correcting me.

How about this trajectory where Shaurya reaches an apogee of anywhere between 80-110 km and follows a classic ballistic path but then starts gliding as it descends. If you plan the trajectory accordingly keeping all available info of deployed radars in the vicinity of the target and their radar horizon, you can stay undetected for a long period until you are a few hundred or less than 300 km away from the target. By that times it's too late since you have seconds available with you. And the air defense radar has to acquire you, then initiate a track and hand over the track to the FCR for further higher fidelity tracking if there are two radars instead of a MMR as was the case earlier and then launch the interceptor .

There can be trajectories where the Shaurya just enters the radar detection envelope at the terminal stage of its trajectory.

Shaurya uses those set of four fixed titanium fins for generating lift. It can glide for quite some distance .

 

[Lonewarrior]

Shaurya uses those set of four fixed titanium fins for generating lift. It can glide for quite some distance .

Ummmnn...given how smol those wings are and also such low aspect ratio, I think they contribute negligible lift compared to the airframe itself.

They are most probably using a close - coupled canard arrangment (like Russian R-73 missiles) to use the vortex generated by leading fixed canards to increase the effective force of rear movable canards. Otherwise I don't think it's possible for those small control surfaces to steer such heavy missile at hypersonic speeds.

 

[Srinie]

StarStreak bhi banayenge, Mistral bhi banayenge!?

Jis pe bhi BDL ka stamp Laga sake wo banayenge

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

 

[Raj Malhotra]

I saw that the listed warhead weight of the Barak-8 was surprisingly large at 60kg. Usually the new western missiles have much smaller warheads. The Aster is supposed to have a warhead of 15kg and some of the newer American missiles have less than 10kg warheads and are hit to kill.
60kg is more like Russia or Chinese SAMs.

If you read the DRDO poster, earlier in the thread, warhead is mentioned as 23kg for Barak-8, LRSAM, MRSAM