DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Rassil Krishnan]

Agni-P

why do we need these agni-Ps, agni 1s and 2s when we have the agni 4s and agni5s? we can attach the warheads to the agni4s and agni5s and focus on them. and make new missiles based on new developed tech and retire the old missiles.

 

[Jimih]

why do we need these agni-Ps, agni 1s and 2s when we have the agni 4s and agni5s? we can attach the warheads to the agni4s and agni5s and focus on them. and make new missiles based on new developed tech and retire the old missiles.

The answer lies in the ranges.

India is fastly moving towards raising a seperate Rocket Force.

Will be projected as a deterrent to you-know-who.

 

[jik60]

Got a question on Agni-P

Why the canister does only cover the fuselage/body of the missile but not the nose cone? is it good or bad?
for instance:

 

[Bleh]

I've quite elaborately mentioned everything they need, I think you missed that part. I'm taking the pain of going through that again

The range of 800-1200m and the portability of both ammo - gun is perfect for them. Ambushes always take place within 1,000m

They need something that can sufficiently make the use of cover irrelevant without causing collateral damage. Currently they have everything from 9mm to 7.62mm (under-powered) and then from 51mm to 84mm (over-powered).

A grenade launcher (currently only a few troops are issued UBGL in CRPF), preferably an automatic but a multi would be enough is what they need.

.50BMG is going to penetrate cleanly through the torso of the Naxal you are aiming, then through the tree behind him, then a mud wall, then the person peeing on the other side of the wall, then another tree and then finally through a women in the next village.

We manufacture 12.7x108mm for our NSVTs so we would either need to import each round or source them from local manufacturers...and in both cases it's going to cost very high.

A .50BMG would be 116 grams and a 7.62x51mm is 25 gram.

You can carry 9 bullets of one type in place of 2 of other. CRPFs need sustained firepower for quite a long duration so that they either hold Naxals till reinforcement or force them to retreat their ammo is expended.

At this point the have absolutely zero surveillance in actual theatres of action. A single Chinese quadcopter can change the direction of an encounter

Currently they have to literally beg for a helicopter to air force for even critical missions like MEDEVAC

Providing fire from above the jungle, beyond the range of enemy weapon

Once Naxals enter jungle you can't do sh*t

Imagine how many they currently have?


But if still you think .50 BMG is need then no issues, go be a mall ninja

Dude... IEDs are used so commonly because naxals get total information on paramilitary's movements from local that CRPF travels by bikes in certain areas to spread out.

Vehicles, matter which will be knocked out. It might help, but cost to return is very high.

 

[Lonewolf]

Got a question on Agni-P

Why the canister does only cover the fuselage/body of the missile but not the nose cone? is it good or bad?
for instance:

During testing they do so for every missile ,later change that to fully closed canister

 

[Lonewarrior]

Got a question on Agni-P

Why the canister does only cover the fuselage/body of the missile but not the nose cone? is it good or bad?
for instance:

There you go...

 

[Lonewarrior]

why do we need these agni-Ps, agni 1s and 2s when we have the agni 4s and agni5s? we can attach the warheads to the agni4s and agni5s and focus on them. and make new missiles based on new developed tech and retire the old missiles.

Well whatever you're saying is exactly what we're currently doing.

Earlier we used to have Agni-I/II/III/IV/V because of technological limitations. So let's say we have a missile X with certain specs and we want to upgrade for bumping those up, but in that process we would requiring so much of propellant and maraging steel casing that the weight would increase so much that you'd have to make a complete new version instead of an upgrade.

But with time we developed many new technologies like RDX infused HTPB, carbon fibre composite rocket sections, we developed wounding machines (in fibre composite technology the way you wind those fibres are key to the mechanical properties), we also acquired giant autoclaves. Also the technological breakthroughs from ISRO kept on proliferating here, coz more or less there's no deference between a PSLV and an Agni, it's just the payload.

So long story short, we are now "unifying" our missile arsenal. Which means now we'll have a single missile to do the work of multiple.
1. Both Agni-I/II would be replaced by Agni-P.
2. Lighter, more accurate Prahaar will replace heavier and liquid fuelled Prithvis on lower end. You can carry 6 Prahaar in place of 1 Prithvi
3. Difficult to intercept Shaurya would replace the Prithvis of higher end.

So basically there's do denying that everything currently looks like a mess but eventually things would get much more streamlined.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Agni-P is a wunderwaffe for us. It has all the elements and enabling tech required for a maneuvering RV/glide body required to hit a moving frigate/destroyer sized warship with single digit CEP.

Why stop?
Throw in a smaller nuclear warhead combined with re-entry decoys and there goes a PLA carrier strike group!

 

[TopWatcher]

Arun S. Vishwakarma's predictions are coming true after some nay years

What predictions ?

 

[Lonewarrior]

Barak-8, MRSAM , LRSAM are one and the same missile. Now here's the interesting part. Azerbaijan and UAE has the original 70 km ranges Barak-8. Azerbaijan also has the ER version with the booster.

Since DRDL has IP rights of the propulsion module, for which IAI has to pay royalty fees to us and source this part from us according to the initial workshare agreement, IAI developed a whole new line of modular Sam based on Indo Israeli JV Barak-8 which is the Barak MX family. This family's ER is distinctly different from the original Barak-8 ER . And as of now we don't have the ER variant of Barak-8.

Our Barak-8 doesn't have any wings while MX family has a brand new airframe with wide chord low aspect ratio wings.

Gotcha

So basically this is the whole saga...

 

[Photon]

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Guys, lot of info about solving MRSAM & LRSAM range questions is available on brochures

LRSAM speed Mach 2, dual pulse motor, firing duration 230 seconds, hence aerodynamic range around 150km but effective range 90km

MRSAM speed faster at mach 3, dual pulse motor, firing duration ? Aerodynamic range ? Effective range 70km

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Guys, lot of info about solving MRSAM & LRSAM range questions is available on brochures

LRSAM speed Mach 2, dual pulse motor, firing duration 230 seconds, hence aerodynamic range around 150km but effective range 90km

MRSAM speed faster at mach 3, dual pulse motor, firing duration ? Aerodynamic range ? Effective range 70km

MRSAM/LRSAM both accelerate to Mach 5-7 during terminal phase when the 2nd motor kicks in.

 

[johnj]

MRSAM/LRSAM both accelerate to Mach 5-7 during terminal phase when the 2nd motor kicks in.

from where you get this info ?
single motor - dual pulse - used in barak jv/8

 

[johnj]

Barak 8/JV
LRSAM for navy - 70km range
MRSAM for IAF - 70km range
Both are same missile, with different command center & FCR/SR
Israel found out the range of this missile can be increased upto 100km
Barak 8/8ER - same missile with additional booster stage. booster speed upto mach3, missile speed upto mach 2

Barak MX, its Israel missile, a further development of barak8 with 100% Israel tech

 

[Arihant Roy]

The conical RV of Agni P is a step up or a generation ahead of what we call BGRV in Indian parlance. Agni-2 was the first Indian ballistic missile to use Ballistic glide reentry vehicle . Here's Agni P RV.

Here's the Common Hypersonic Glide body of the American LRHW . The RV is made by Dynetics and the boosters are made by LM.

CHRB is a proper hypersonic glide vehicle. Notice its close resemblance to the Agni P RV. What's different is that the Agni RV doesn't have the fixed delta wings but has smaller clipped movable fins. Instead it has a thicker higher dia blunt nose compared to CHGB. So whatever lift that these deltas generated is compensated by the blunt nose tip which gives the conical RV a higher L to D coefficient compared to the pointed nose of CHGB.

These are the different classes of HGV that have already flight tested or are in developement now.

That conical body is a Pershing-2 RV. CHRB is closer to delta winged body. Our conical RV has a LD ratio of 3.5+. Its a true blue HGV . Previously we had Shaurya as a quasi ballistic / hypersonic glide vehicle. Before that there was Agni-2 BGRV.

In one test in 2011, Shaurya flew for 700 kms at just 40 km alt. It cruised at around M7.5. Look at the two radar horizon slant lines in the above pic. Shaurya will be undetectable for most of its trajectory due to its low flight alt. Shaurya is a true blue HGV. We had entered the hypesonics club more than a decade back. Remember this and always feel extra proud for being born here. We are part of an elite grouping and we have already earned a place at the high table.

Now here's the flight profile of CHRB during one of its tests.

More than 3/4th of the distance was spent gliding . Agni P is distinct here due to the fact that in all probability it has a small solid rocket motor mated to a flex nozzle in the RV which not only allows for complex 3D maneuvering in exo atmosphere in conjunction with the DACS but it also provides a degree of continuous propulsion within atm so as to sustain the flight speeds. Within atm as the heigh decreases ,the air becomes denser and any HGV cruising here rapidly looses speed and energy due to high drag. A sustained motor with a flex nozzle alleviates this problem to a huge extent and allows for high terminal speeds . The fins help in providing aerodynamic control inside atm similar to a MaRV. DACS is also partially effective in the higher parts of atmosphere. All these manuevering both exo and endo atmosphere will help Agni-P RV to hit a frigate class moving warship with single digit CEP.

Agni-P is the basis of the upcoming LRAShM. Only an imaging X band seeker and a radome able to sustain the high Mach nos are needed. A heat shield can also be used which will be jettisoned once within a few hundred kms of the warship. W band seeker has very small ranges and won't be applicable here.

 

[Blademaster]

Arun S. Vishwakarma's predictions are coming true after some nay years

Please refresh our memories and repost his predictions. Thanks in advance.

 

[Blademaster]

The conical RV of Agni P is a step up or a generation ahead of what we call BGRV in Indian parlance. Agni-2 was the first Indian ballistic missile to use Ballistic glide reentry vehicle . Here's Agni P RV.

View attachment 209417


Here's the Common Hypersonic Glide body of the American LRHW . The RV is made by Dynetics and the boosters are made by LM.

View attachment 209418

CHRB is a proper hypersonic glide vehicle. Notice its close resemblance to the Agni P RV. What's different is that the Agni RV doesn't have the fixed delta wings but has smaller clipped movable fins. Instead it has a thicker higher dia blunt nose compared to CHGB. So whatever lift that these deltas generated is compensated by the blunt nose tip which gives the conical RV a higher L to D coefficient compared to the pointed nose of CHGB.

These are the different classes of HGV that have already flight tested or are in developement now.

View attachment 209419

That conical body is a Pershing-2 RV. CHRB is closer to delta winged body. Our conical RV has a LD ratio of 3.5+. Its a true blue HGV . Previously we had Shaurya as a quasi ballistic / hypersonic glide vehicle. Before that there was Agni-2 BGRV.

View attachment 209420

View attachment 209421

In one test in 2011, Shaurya flew for 700 kms at just 40 km alt. It cruised at around M7.5. Look at the two radar horizon slant lines in the above pic. Shaurya will be undetectable for most of its trajectory due to its low flight alt. Shaurya is a true blue HGV. We had entered the hypesonics club more than a decade back. Remember this and always feel extra proud for being born here. We are part of an elite grouping and we have already earned a place at the high table.

Now here's the flight profile of CHRB during one of its tests.

View attachment 209422

More than 3/4th of the distance was spent gliding . Agni P is distinct here due to the fact that in all probability it has a small solid rocket motor mated to a flex nozzle in the RV which not only allows for complex 3D maneuvering in exo atmosphere in conjunction with the DACS but it also provides a degree of continuous propulsion within atm so as to sustain the flight speeds. Within atm as the heigh decreases ,the air becomes denser and any HGV cruising here rapidly looses speed and energy due to high drag. A sustained motor with a flex nozzle alleviates this problem to a huge extent and allows for high terminal speeds . The fins help in providing aerodynamic control inside atm similar to a MaRV. DACS is also partially effective in the higher parts of atmosphere. All these manuevering both exo and endo atmosphere will help Agni-P RV to hit a frigate class moving warship with single digit CEP.

Agni-P is the basis of the upcoming LRAShM. Only an imaging X band seeker and a radome able to sustain the high Mach nos are needed. A heat shield can also be used which will be jettisoned once within a few hundred kms of the warship. W band seeker has very small ranges and won't be applicable here.

Excellent and informative post!!! This needs to be saved.

 

[AnantS]

Please refresh our memories and repost his predictions. Thanks in advance.

He talked about Agni Prime in various discussion forums and slides .. more than decade back. I am not sure if any of the material exists now .. barring few excerpts which @Arihant Roy posted.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Guys, lot of info about solving MRSAM & LRSAM range questions is available on brochures

LRSAM speed Mach 2, dual pulse motor, firing duration 230 seconds, hence aerodynamic range around 150km but effective range 90km

MRSAM speed faster at mach 3, dual pulse motor, firing duration ? Aerodynamic range ? Effective range 70km

Akash NG estimated weight 350kg, Estimated speed Mach 3, dual pulse single motor, aerodynamic range ? Estimated effective range 80km

(Note effective range of 275kg MRSAM is 70kg and PAC-3 weight 320kg, range against aircraft 120km, Aster 30NT weight 450kg range against aircraft 150km)

AAD weight 1300kg, estimated speed Mach 4.5, single motor (dual pulse or single pulse Unknown),

Range, my guess

Aerodynamic 500km
Against SRBM 40km
Against fighter aircraft 250km
Against AWACS & other slow aircraft 350km