DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[SwordOfDarkness]

Hey @Samej Jangir , it's been so long that we had assumed we would never see you...but as we know, The Lord works in mysterious ways... today you're back with us.

So much has happened in the past three decades when you're not with us...the world now might seem overwhelming to you. I know, nothing makes sense...but hey, I've something for you.

This will definitely help in catching up
View attachment 206999

Hes wrong about a lot of things, but you arent comepletely right either.

XM1113 needs a 58 caliber gun to reach that distance, and most artillery only goes ~30km.

That radar, again, most likely gives a large delay in between pulses, which is why it has lower avg consumption. I really doubt it can get any sort of lock on a target.

Also, not this post but you are overexaggerating the impact of UCAVs. IMO, the only good use of UCAVS in Indian context is to hunt subs in IOR. The only other use of HALE/MALE would be peacetime surveillance.

Drones stop being cost effective in combat once we go beyong the medium sized ones.

 

[Lonewarrior]

My Archnemesis...

XM1113 needs a 58 caliber gun to reach that distance, and most artillery only goes ~30km.

K315 from K9A1 can hit up to 50km

That radar, again, most likely gives a large delay in between pulses, which is why it has lower avg consumption. I really doubt it can get any sort of lock on a target.

If the same radar is being successfully used with Active Protection System then how can you say that the PRF is low!?

Also, not this post but you are overexaggerating the impact of UCAVs. IMO, the only good use of UCAVS in Indian context is to hunt subs in IOR. The only other use of HALE/MALE would be peacetime surveillance.

And not in this post, but in previous I've also said how UCAVs can relieve P8Is.

But to some extent they can come quite handy in anti-armour operations

 

[Fatalis]

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

 

[Samej Jangir]

Hey @Samej Jangir , it's been so long that we had assumed we would never see you...but as we know, The Lord works in mysterious ways... today you're back with us.

So much has happened in the past three decades when you're not with us...the world now might seem overwhelming to you. I know, nothing makes sense...but hey, I've something for you.

This will definitely help in catching up
View attachment 206999

It is XM1113ER or XM1210 that has 70km range. However, the rocket assist part is where it has certain trade-offs. The ammunitions are pretty large to make room for rocket propellant, the guidance is mostly GPS based with some cheap INS system which is not military grade and only as secondary guidance and likely very inaccurate.

First look up the method of making INS and their accuracies. Read about how USA denied INS systems to Indian planes and India had to make huge efforts to develop them indigenously. Cheapening the complexity of military grade INS system by exaggerating and fantasising artillery shells having substandard INS only shows ignorance

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Duniya bhar ka jugaad karenge but MP-ATGM, Amogha-3, AsiBal order nahi karenge.

 

[AnantS]

Duniya bhar ka jugaad karenge but MP-ATGM, Amogha-3, AsiBal order nahi karenge.

Sabhi trials main hain ya various stages of RFI

 

[Lonewarrior]

It is XM1113ER or XM1210 that has 70km range. However, the rocket assist part is where it has certain trade-offs. The ammunitions are pretty large to make room for rocket propellant, the guidance is mostly GPS based with some cheap INS system which is not military grade and only as secondary guidance and likely very inaccurate.

First look up the method of making INS and their accuracies. Read about how USA denied INS systems to Indian planes and India had to make huge efforts to develop them indigenously. Cheapening the complexity of military grade INS system by exaggerating and fantasising artillery shells having substandard INS only shows ignorance

Are you dumb or what!?

"The ammunition are large to make room for propellant" What kind of bs argument is this Mate?
Then from your perspective ICBMs are the worst of ammunition, coz they use thousands of kilos of propellant for just few kgs of warhead?

Slight reduction in warhead Vs almost double the range, more accuracy, lesser numbers of shells, more service life of barrels, less chance of counter battery fire...can't you see the proposition here?

People are successfully firing INS systems from artillery guns and that system is achieving 5m CEP and that too after sustaining thousands of g of acceleration and shock...and still you have the audacity to claim that they're cheap and not military grade.

The way you mentioned how India was denied and we made after complexity...just gave me the idea of how ancient you're.

What would your reaction when I tell you that there's a system which has an induction programmer, a setback generator, a laser transmitter, a laser receiver, a power supply unit, a flight computer, a g sensor, a SAD unit, few grams of explosives and tungsten all packed in a small 30mm autocannon round!?

 

[Samej Jangir]

Might seem a bit off topic but i am concerned about how the PSUs like DRDO or Space and Technology organizations like ISRO can continue to attract talent if government caps the salaries of its Directors at 2 Lakh 50 thousand per month. For that matter even service chiefs are not eligible to get more than 2.5 lpm ? Back in 1990s these pay scales used to be attractive by then standards of living. But right now in the last 2-3 years the salaries in IT and service sector have hiked so much that, many software engineers who haven't even reached their mid careers are already earning 30 lakh and above salaries. Forget about Director, AVP, VP level employees who are now earning more than 1 crore per month. Please don't get me wrong but now a talented person unless he/she is freakishly patriotic won't be willing to join DRDO,ISRO or any PSUs and ruin their career. It may feel alright for arm chair critics like us to complain about the Tejas Mk1,MK2 missed dead lines and asking for accountability and rolling heads...but seriously we have to question how can the people working with those salaries get motivated when they see their mediocre friends and peers from colleges who are earning above and beyond them just because they are in IT?

Just now googled and found there are 12.3 Lakh people in India paying in the tax group of earning 25-50 Lakhs. This is just the organized sector (also called formal sector which pays taxes), there may be 2 to 3 times that number who earn as much but don't pay taxes. So how can government motivate its PSU employees?

The stress in private jobs is far too high. DRDO also provides quarters in excellent localities at nominal prices which act as indirect extra pay. In addition, there is job stability, no arbitrary rat racing, no performance reviews & hike hagglings etc. There is also good insurance schemes and sympathy job or pension guaranteed to one's family in case of untimely deaths. Their children also can avail cheap education in Kendriya Vidyalayas.

A typical man can easily live in 50k pm salary if he has little to worry about providing education to his kids or provide safety funds for his wife & children in case of untimely deaths. The work in DRDO provides all these safety nets and is also highly respectable in nature. So, a pay of 1.5 lakh per month for a scientist should easily guarantee satisfaction. There is no need to compete with arbitrary packages in private sector

 

[Samej Jangir]

Are you dumb or what!?

"The ammunition are large to make room for propellant" What kind of bs argument is this Mate?
Then from your perspective ICBMs are the worst of ammunition, coz they use thousands of kilos of propellant for just few kgs of warhead?

Slight reduction in warhead Vs almost double the range, more accuracy, lesser numbers of shells, more service life of barrels, less chance of counter battery fire...can't you see the proposition here?

People are successfully firing INS systems from artillery guns and that system is achieving 5m CEP and that too after sustaining thousands of g of acceleration and shock...and still you have the audacity to claim that they're cheap and not military grade.

The way you mentioned how India was denied and we made after complexity...just gave me the idea of how ancient you're.

What would your reaction when I tell you that there's a system which has an induction programmer, a setback generator, a laser transmitter, a laser receiver, a power supply unit, a flight computer, a g sensor, a SAD unit, few grams of explosives and tungsten all packed in a small 30mm autocannon round!?

Making aggressive comments doesn't make it intelligent.

Firstly, the large ammunition size means it hinders logistics significantly. This should be common sense. Artilleries are used for suppression and it needs large quantity to do that.

Also, INS are not used successfully but used with GPS as hybrid. INS alone is not giving anywhere close to 5m CEP. All the stats you are showing is CEP when in combination with GPS & INS. None of the stats provide CEP when GPS is jammed or when it is in INS only mode.

This is why it is important to understand both "how" & "why" of a technology before simply making wild claims. First study the technology as to how it works, what is needed to produce them, why was these technology not available before 1950s and what enabled these technologies today are some of the basic questions to ponder over in critical thinking process for Defence technology. Until you start answering these basic questions and just jump to conclusions, you will only make a laughing stock of yourself

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Developed in India bro I swear

 

[Lonewarrior]

Making aggressive comments doesn't make it intelligent.

Firstly, the large ammunition size means it hinders logistics significantly. This should be common sense. Artilleries are used for suppression and it needs large quantity to do that.

Also, INS are not used successfully but used with GPS as hybrid. INS alone is not giving anywhere close to 5m CEP. All the stats you are showing is CEP when in combination with GPS & INS. None of the stats provide CEP when GPS is jammed or when it is in INS only mode.

This is why it is important to understand both "how" & "why" of a technology before simply making wild claims. First study the technology as to how it works, what is needed to produce them, why was these technology not available before 1950s and what enabled these technologies today are some of the basic questions to ponder over in critical thinking process for Defence technology. Until you start answering these basic questions and just jump to conclusions, you will only make a laughing stock of yourself

What's your age?

I know it may sound unrelated to this discussion but trust me, it's going to decide the due course of action

 

[astransastra]

In addition, there is job stability, no arbitrary rat racing, no performance reviews & hike hagglings etc.

That may be true, but i'm sure there may be many PSU employees who would like to go through review process and raising their performance provided it also results in pay hikes. After all who would like to underperform which doesn't give them job satisfaction if they do. So government might want to try letting PSU employees to go through "Reviews" as an optional process to get hikes. Those who choose not to get reviewed will keep their jobs but will not get hikes. How about that?

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Duniya bhar ka jugaad karenge but MP-ATGM, Amogha-3, AsiBal order nahi karenge.

TBH, Konkurs M is a good ATGM, and very cheap. Good for vast majority of roles, especially in defensive role where you dont have to lug around the missile or in vehicle mounted role.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

 

[no smoking]

People are successfully firing INS systems from artillery guns and that system is achieving 5m CEP .

It is doubtful that a shell can have 5m CEP with INS system, even adding on GPS support which itself provided only >5m accuracy for military users.

 

[Blood+]

Might seem a bit off topic but i am concerned about how the PSUs like DRDO or Space and Technology organizations like ISRO can continue to attract talent if government caps the salaries of its Directors at 2 Lakh 50 thousand per month. For that matter even service chiefs are not eligible to get more than 2.5 lpm ? Back in 1990s these pay scales used to be attractive by then standards of living. But right now in the last 2-3 years the salaries in IT and service sector have hiked so much that, many software engineers who haven't even reached their mid careers are already earning 30 lakh and above salaries. Forget about Director, AVP, VP level employees who are now earning more than 1 crore per month. Please don't get me wrong but now a talented person unless he/she is freakishly patriotic won't be willing to join DRDO,ISRO or any PSUs and ruin their career. It may feel alright for arm chair critics like us to complain about the Tejas Mk1,MK2 missed dead lines and asking for accountability and rolling heads...but seriously we have to question how can the people working with those salaries get motivated when they see their mediocre friends and peers from colleges who are earning above and beyond them just because they are in IT?

Just now googled and found there are 12.3 Lakh people in India paying in the tax group of earning 25-50 Lakhs. This is just the organized sector (also called formal sector which pays taxes), there may be 2 to 3 times that number who earn as much but don't pay taxes. So how can government motivate its PSU employees?

If you mean 3 mil per month, then that'd be decidedly untrue.

 

[Blood+]

Haw many Indian family earn more than 2l PM ?
How long the people earning 30 lakh and above salaries keep their jobs ?
How many Indians earn 30 lakh and above salaries ?
What about customers - total numbers & competitiveness ?
FYI - people earning/making money more than 10l PM is building a future for human race if you exclude doctors & ads, IT sectors makes a lots of money thanks to ads.
FYI= there is huge difference between IIT & IIM, engineers gets a low salary compared to MBA, only reason IT people getting huge salaries due to foreign currency power, it is similar to a nurse/techiest working in gulf vs Indian village. Engineers makes only less than 1.2l PM, average less than 60k pm and as low as 10k pm.
you can see a large no.of engineering choosing civil services, police, fire force ldc etc due to better salary and future and start up. Engineer salary depends on new innovation or dangerous/challenges involved, IT sector depends on ads.
What is the salary earn by LM engineer and top IT sectors in US ?

Yeah all that and to top it off, this whole bloated edifice that we call IT is now coming crashing down like rubble.

 

[Blood+]

Duniya bhar ka jugaad karenge but MP-ATGM, Amogha-3, AsiBal order nahi karenge.

Those 3rd gen ATGMs will come in due time (MPATGM is not yet ready) but meanwhile, the Army needs to upgrade the existing systems like Konkurs and Milan 2Ts which they have got in their tens of thousands.

 

[Fatalis]

The MFR of Akash-NG looks much bigger than the radars of QRSAM.

Yet, it provides almost similiar performance.