DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Samej Jangir]

How many times I'll have to reiterate again and again that we have moved way past vaccum tubes in electronics?



Find out why Ukrainian were having difficulty shooting electric UAVs with Stinger or Strela but not with Martlet or StarStreak
Do some research

Laser guidance is not same as radar. Radars are not practical for MANPADS.

To provide an armed overwatch, to deal with battlefield targets upto SHORADs, to free up fighters from some of their duty and assigns those to Heron and SAMs, completely change the way we used to operate CI/CT in jungles, provide maritime surveillance capabilities with strike options against infiltration or FACs

Any target that can't fire back to the 10km altitude Heron is flying at can be struck

Providing an overwatch is the duty if surveillance drone, not armed drone. I accept that surveillance drones are helpful but I don't see the use for armed drones in Indian scenario. Drones can't spot infiltration as most of the infiltration is done in mountains and assisted by forest covers, snow etc. The effective use of armed drones is very low for India. Also, just like pod addition, India can easily add ATGM and PGM on drones like Tapas anytime. This is also why Tapas has 350kg payload capacity. But till date, India has not needed it.

First of all, for God's sake stop this "quick reaction" thing. It's like saying you have a hypersonic ballistic missile...all modern SAMs are Quick Reaction. Just name a single SAM that is Retarded Reaction!?

Except the fact that India has VLRSAM which is quite similar to QRSAM.
It is designed to be fired from a ship that rocking the hell out of itself due to bad sea...so don't you say it can't be fired on the move.
And it is designed as the last ditch air defence before you switch to CIWS...so don't you say it's not quick reacting...coz then our navy would be doomed.

NASAMs mounted on mobile platforms are quite similar to QRSAM. There's a proposed version of CAMM that can be fired on the move. Turkish HISAR is similar.

NASAMS is also a USA variant of QRSAM, similar to SPYDER of Israel. However, comparison with Naval VLSRSAM is absurd as Naval ships have huge radars whereas the mobile trucks have small and low powered radars. In addition, ships have clean vision whereas land vehicles have to deal with lot of obstructions. This necessitates QRSAM to be launched first and guided next. Most other SAM acquire target before firing missile. This is what differentiates QRSAM.

Guidance is not that good!?

You can hit a moving vehicle with laser guided Excalibur. Even if not laser then normal GPS ones provide a CEP of 2-4m

Laser guidance of artillery? Seriously? Do you know that artillery is meant to fire cheap rounds at a sustained rate of 3-4/minute. A single artillery may fire 3000+ rounds a day in intense battles. Good luck using laser guided shells in such numbers. Also, GPS will be jammed at the first instance of war across airspace. Jamming or spoofing weak signals from satellites is very easy

 

[Vamsi]

bomber ??

 

[binayak95]

@binayak95 sir ji?

That is puzzling to me too. The only ships with Uran are the Brahmaputras, the Koras, 2 RE boats and the unupgraded Delhis.

115 number seems implausible.

 

[Chinmoy]

I didn't mean L&T can't do it I meant will something with k9 Chasis qualify?

Something like K9 chassis will qualify, but not THE K9 chassis.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Tu kya aadmi hai bhai!?
Matlab jo tere hisaab se sunne me achha lagega wohi sach, baaki asliyat me desh duniya me kya ho raha hai wo jaaye maa ch...

Laser guidance is not same as radar. Radars are not practical for MANPADS.

After seeing almost 2k posts of mine it seemed necessary for you to tell me laser guidance is not same as radar?

Obviously radar are not practical for MANPADs, but can you please tell me who the f here was talking about MANPADs? We were talking about integrating "MANPADs like missile" on vehicles. Vehicles mate, big moving objects with big engines...where you can easily carry extra couple of tonnes with tens of kilowatts of power.

Providing an overwatch is the duty if surveillance drone, not armed drone.

Then I think you need to do some research and find out how more and more countries are slowly moving from "overwatch" to "armed overwatch"

Drone A is on surveillance, spots a targets worth engaging. Drone B takes off from airbase, reaches station and engages that target.
Drone A finds a target worth engaging while on surveillance and engages it

Which one sounds more logical to you!?

Drones can't spot infiltration as most of the infiltration is done in mountains and assisted by forest covers, snow etc.

Okay

And how exactly are those warmy warm human infiltrators going to look in the cold mountainous background if observed through a FLIR!?

Drones can't look under forest covers!? Really!? Then what the heck is a Foliage Penetrating Radar Mate?

In addition, ships have clean vision whereas land vehicles have to deal with lot of obstructions.

Ships have to deal with sea skimming target, and moreover fast targets like supersonic missiles. That's why the need a longer field of vision.

Just answer how're you gonna attack a vehicle parked inside a city using a sea skimming missile? The obstruction in land warfare is not only for the radar, it's also applicable for the attacking party.

This necessitates QRSAM to be launched first and guided next. Most other SAM acquire target before firing missile. This is what differentiates QRSAM.

You'll be glad to know that except for MANPADs no other current SAM is fired after acquiring the target.

Only in MANPADs you need to first "superelevate" your launcher, put the target on crosshair and wait for the beep...after which you can fire. That's why it takes some 5-6 seconds to engage a target.

All other SAM fire the missile blindly, where it's guided by either INS or datalink or Semi-Active Radar Homing in the initial phase and switched to the onboard seeker when it's in the endgame phase.

Laser guidance of artillery? Seriously? Do you know that artillery is meant to fire cheap rounds at a sustained rate of 3-4/minute. A single artillery may fire 3000+ rounds a day in intense battles.

Yes mate, laser guided artillery. Seriously laser guided artillery.

No, I never know that artillery is supposed to fire at a sustained rate of 3-4/minute for over 3000+ rounds a day. I only thought these techniques was used in World War 2 or by poor countries who can't hit sh*t in anything less than thousand rounds.

Just answer this genius, if I can accurately hit a target by using a 10k laser guided round then why do I need to fire 20 0.5k inaccurate rounds to take that target?

Also, GPS will be jammed at the first instance of war across airspace. Jamming or spoofing weak signals from satellites is very easy

And what would be on-board INS's reaction after it'll realise that GPS has been jammed?
Will it continue guiding the shell at the pre-programmed target or commit suicide in the shame of GPS getting jammed?
Never heard about "GPS denied guidance"!?

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Something like K9 chassis will qualify, but not THE K9 chassis.

So they can use it as base and work on it? Good to know what's drdos entry in the competition is ngmbt still a thing?

 

[Chinmoy]

So they can use it as base and work on it? Good to know what's drdos entry in the competition is ngmbt still a thing?

Doing so would invite legal prosecution from Hanwha Techwin.

We can't use K9 chassis as base, but could use its know how to make our own chassis. But would L&T do it? That's the question to be asked.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Doing so would invite legal prosecution from Hanwha Techwin.

We can't use K9 chassis as base, but could use its know how to make our own chassis. But would L&T do it? That's the question to be asked.

L&T does seem to be a company who sees alot of profit in defence working on ifcv and heard they will invest in male/Hale drones in future so if someone is willing to do the work it might be L&T baki let's see what future holds

 

[Fatalis]

According to PKS the target missile for MRSAM was the STAR missile.

 

[Lonewarrior]

L&T does seem to be a company who sees alot of profit in defence working on ifcv and heard they will invest in male/Hale drones in future so if someone is willing to do the work it might be L&T baki let's see what future holds

Don't know why Tata's behaving like Hanuman standing on the beach confused about his own strength but ya...as of now L&T and Kalyani are the only two prominent name in terms of defence manufacturing. Coz end of the day they're a conglomerate who can easily redirect funds from their other businesses to do R&D or prototype development despite knowing that they might not recover that investment.

Sooner or later these two names would start consolidating the whole Indian defence industry.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Just answer this genius, if I can accurately hit a target by using a 10k laser guided round then why do I need to fire 20 0.5k inaccurate rounds to take that target?

Mostly correct-ish, except there are a lot of good reasons to fire 20 dumb rounds instead of one guided one.
A large part of artillery work is suppression, where volume is very important. Which is why most modern arty will still have mostly unguided rounds, with a few laser and GPS guided rounds for HVT.

 

[Samej Jangir]

Then I think you need to do some research and find out how more and more countries are slowly moving from "overwatch" to "armed overwatch"

Drone A is on surveillance, spots a targets worth engaging. Drone B takes off from airbase, reaches station and engages that target.
Drone A finds a target worth engaging while on surveillance and engages it

Which one sounds more logical to you!?

Can you suggest a scenario for India where drone strikes are practical? The problem with drone strikes is that target acquisition can be a mistaken selection due to limited information. This can cause huge problems if innocent people are hit. This is why India doesn't even down pirate boats but onboards them and arrests them.

Obviously radar are not practical for MANPADs, but can you please tell me who the f here was talking about MANPADs? We were talking about integrating "MANPADs like missile" on vehicles. Vehicles mate, big moving objects with big engines...where you can easily carry extra couple of tonnes with tens of kilowatts of power.

You want to have radars on vehicles and integrate it to MANPADS? That is called QRSAM. If you are thinking of integrating radars on jeep, car etc, you will face design and power issue. Large trucks with auxiliary generators will needed and that is not suitable for many places, especially when stealth is required.

And how exactly are those warmy warm human infiltrators going to look in the cold mountainous background if observed through a FLIR!?

Good luck spotting a human using FLIR from a drone at 5km altitude. Do note that drones have limited power generation and can't actually have high powered sensors. Why do you think fence based sensors, AWACS or air balloons which have much higher powered sensors can't detect infiltration?

Ships have to deal with sea skimming target, and moreover fast targets like supersonic missiles. That's why the need a longer field of vision.

Just answer how're you gonna attack a vehicle parked inside a city using a sea skimming missile? The obstruction in land warfare is not only for the radar, it's also applicable for the attacking party

Do you understand that even a seak skimming target gets visible at a fixed distance from the mast radar as the visibility is defined by curvature of earth and height of radar mast. In case of land vehicles, it will have to deal with suddenly incoming helicopters and fighter jets from behind mountains.

As for how enemy will know the location behind obstructions, the main point of QRSAM is for use during offensive thrust. Enemies are expected to have lot of local ground based assets to relay location of incoming armour column. QRSAM is not for protecting land based bases or vehicles in cities.

No, I never know that artillery is supposed to fire at a sustained rate of 3-4/minute for over 3000+ rounds a day. I only thought these techniques was used in World War 2 or by poor countries who can't hit sh*t in anything less than thousand rounds.

Just answer this genius, if I can accurately hit a target by using a 10k laser guided round then why do I need to fire 20 0.5k inaccurate rounds to take that target?

Israel is probably the only country which has critical targets within artillery reach of enemies. Artillery is used for just 30km targets and are not some missiles which travel long distance. These are mainly used as barrage fires to prevent enemies from moving and also to destroy enemy infrastructure, homes and installations enmasse in nearby areas and create a buffer zone.

And what would be on-board INS's reaction after it'll realise that GPS has been jammed?
Will it continue guiding the shell at the pre-programmed target or commit suicide in the shame of GPS getting jammed?
Never heard about "GPS denied guidance"!

INS on artillery? Are you serious? Do you know how complex INS technology is? It requires accurate semiconductors and MEMS technology and not something that anyone can make. These are expensive and not meant for artillery. GPS free guidance are present only in expensive equipments and weapons like missiles, aircrafts etc. It is not meant for use in non strategic weapons

 

[Lonewarrior]

The problem with drone strikes is that target acquisition can be a mistaken selection due to limited information.

If you are thinking of integrating radars on jeep, car etc, you will face design and power issue.

Good luck spotting a human using FLIR from a drone at 5km altitude.

limited power generation and can't actually have high powered sensors.

Artillery is used for just 30km targets and are not some missiles which travel long distance.

INS on artillery? Are you serious? Do you know how complex INS technology is?

These are expensive and not meant for artillery.

GPS free guidance are present only in expensive equipments and weapons like missiles, aircrafts etc.

Can anyone please please answer me why I'm feeling like I'm arguing with Steve Roger after he returned from being frozen in ice!?

Seriously Mate, which decade you're in!?

I can't

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Don't know why Tata's behaving like Hanuman standing on the beach confused about his own strength but ya...as of now L&T and Kalyani are the only two prominent name in terms of defence manufacturing. Coz end of the day they're a conglomerate who can easily redirect funds from their other businesses to do R&D or prototype development despite knowing that they might not recover that investment.

Sooner or later these two names would start consolidating the whole Indian defence industry.

Yes Tata is doing small stuff helmets nods and all maybe they don't see much profit in this field to actually invest in r&d and L&T is the only company I recall announcing they will invest in r&d of big drones tata is doing good on looting munitions thou

 

[Lonewarrior]

tata is doing good on looting munitions

Noice

Now don't you dare fix that typo

 

[Suryavanshi]

Noice

Now don't you dare fix that typo

He's not wrong per say.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Noice

Now don't you dare fix that typo

Autocorrect is stupid af and Naa won't fix it haha

 

[Gyyan]

Yes Tata is doing small stuff helmets nods and all maybe they don't see much profit in this field to actually invest in r&d and L&T is the only company I recall announcing they will invest in r&d of big drones tata is doing good on looting munitions thou

Probably because they are going into semiconductor manufacturing and it has better returns compared to developing something that would be on trail for years and only a few ordered later.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Probably because they are going into semiconductor manufacturing and it has better returns compared to developing something that would be on trail for years and only a few ordered later.

A good point you have but they are up there with tie ups

 

[Lonewarrior]

Hey @Samej Jangir , it's been so long that we had assumed we would never see you...but as we know, The Lord works in mysterious ways... today you're back with us.

So much has happened in the past three decades when you're not with us...the world now might seem overwhelming to you. I know, nothing makes sense...but hey, I've something for you.

This will definitely help in catching up