DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[karn]

Really?? Educate me then.

The ammo is stored in the turret bustle . Which is at the opposite end of the frontal arc. And even if that gets hit it will not result in a K kill . Turret crew may be incapacitated or dead but the driver should be able to escape with the tank. Or in his scenario tanks got lucky and nothing critical was hit. Critical things being ammo, crew and hydraulics.

 

[Blood+]

The ammo is stored in the turret bustle . Which is at the opposite end of the frontal arc. And even if that gets hit it will not result in a K kill . Turret crew may be incapacitated or dead but the driver should be able to escape with the tank. Or in his scenario tanks got lucky and nothing critical was hit. Critical things being ammo, crew and hydraulics.

yeah, that I understood, I meant the part in bold, as in this part here -

And if it not so impressive then a 600mm HEAT protection in the frontal arc is pretty reasonable ask.

As far as I can tell, he never mentioned anything about defeating the RPG-7.

 

[karn]

yeah, that I understood, I meant the part in bold, as in the part here -

Not sure what the confusion is . It is entirely a reasonable requirement to expect protection from 30 year old manportable anti tank ammunition on a platform that is expected to engage in direct fire roles.

 

[Love Charger]

I remember a certain engineer who could never satisfy his wife, so he built her a gigantic contraption with a electrically powered dildo, later that morning only her ass remained and all her body parts were gone. The dildo pushed too far.
There was even a song about this.

Dude it will penetrate the target at 1400 -1800 m/s. Are you sure you want???

 

[Johny_Baba]

hehe...he said penetration...hehe. ( i also want to know the answer tho)

ok you may like this Patch then

 

[Blood+]

Not sure what the confusion is . It is entirely a reasonable requirement to expect protection from 30 year old manportable anti tank ammunition on a platform that is expected to engage in direct fire roles.

No, it is not!! Not when when you want the weight to be kept under 27 tons!! Heck, neither the Chinese nor the Americans can achieve that with much heavier vehicles like Type 15 or their new proposed fire support vehicle!!

 

[karn]

No, it is not!! Not when when you want the weight to be kept under 27 tons!! Heck, neither the Chinese nor the Americans can achieve that with much heavier vehicles like Type 15 or their new proposed fire support vehicle!!

Fine Lets agree to disagree . If a Bradley can do it so can this light tank. And we are not even sure if the 27 tons is loaded or unloaded weight.

 

[Blood+]

Fine Lets agree to disagree . If a Bradley can do it so can this light tank. And we are not even sure if the 27 tons is loaded or unloaded weight.

And there it is: You comprehended nothing, mate, just as I suspected!! In actuality, there is no definitive evidence of that Bradley actually defeated that RPG-7 in that video, and that's precisely what SwordOfDarkness had alluded to in his comment.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Ah I guess you did not comprehend my post either.

ummm.... He is actually right.

What I said was, it is not impressive to survive an RPG hit, as long as the RPG does not hit anything important (ammo, important parts of engine, etc). I wasnt dsaying that 600mm of armour is not impressive, 600mm passive armour + ERA is more than what top of the line tanks of most militaries can penetrate.

Also nowadays we have tanks with over 1200mm effective against heat on side attack, just top attack is an issue as it gives the attacking missile a much better angle against ERA blocks.

 

[karn]

And there it is: You comprehended nothing, mate, just as I suspected!! In actuality, there is no definitive evidence of that Bradley actually defeated that RPG-7 in that video, and that's precisely what SwordOfDarkness had alluded to in his comment.

My mistake I misread that part.

 

[karn]

ummm.... He is actually right.

What I said was, it is not impressive to survive an RPG hit, as long as the RPG does not hit anything important (ammo, important parts of engine, etc). I wasnt dsaying that 600mm of armour is not impressive, 600mm passive armour + ERA is more than what top of the line tanks of most militaries can penetrate.

Also nowadays we have tanks with over 1200mm effective against heat on side attack, just top attack is an issue as it gives the attacking missile a much better angle against ERA blocks.

Yes I misread that point I took it as only related to ammo fires.
My contention is that it is perfectly reasonable to build an AFV under 27tons unloaded that can can be proof against 600mm of HEAT penetration using ERA. Considering the Bradley tusk upgrade is a thing it armour is good enough to support mounting ERA.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Yes I misread that point I took it as only related to ammo fires.
My contention is that it is perfectly reasonable to build an AFV under 27tons unloaded that can can be proof against 600mm of HEAT penetration using ERA. Considering the Bradley tusk upgrade is a thing it armour is good enough to support mounting ERA.

I think it said 600mm passive, so probably 600mm equivalent of RHA they meant. Not including ERA.

 

[Blood+]

Yes I misread that point I took it as only related to ammo fires.
My contention is that it is perfectly reasonable to build an AFV under 27tons unloaded that can can be proof against 600mm of HEAT penetration using ERA. Considering the Bradley tusk upgrade is a thing it armour is good enough to support mounting ERA.

Being able to mount a light ERA package isn't really that impressive. If the base armor behind the ERA is not strong enough, then the metal jet from a single large enough warhead, (one with 600 mm equivalent of raw pen for example) can and will pierce the vehicle, depending on the angle of impact. And besides, they are asking for 600mm passive, which means without any form of active protection, so without ERA.

 

[patriots]

 

[Blood+]

Yes I misread that point I took it as only related to ammo fires.
My contention is that it is perfectly reasonable to build an AFV under 27tons unloaded that can can be proof against 600mm of HEAT penetration using ERA.

It's combat weight. Here -

And no, it's definitely NOT a perfectly reasonable expectation because Adamantium does not exist in real life!! Here, you have to work within the constraints of the materials that are available to you in real space.

To put things into perspective, in its standard configuration, the ZTQ-15's base armor is only rated against .50 BMG API rounds at 30 tons, and that too only at the front turret, with the highest armor configuration being rated against autocannon fire!! Heck, even the ~53-ton or so Armata's turret front is only rated against 57mm autocannon fire!! So, do keep that in mind.

As for your question regarding the demand for such a high power-to-weight ratio of 30:1 at the minimum, it's got to do with the rarefied atmosphere these tanks are supposed to be operating in, the same reason why the ZTQ-15 boasts a similar ratio as well.

Considering the Bradley tusk upgrade is a thing it armour is good enough to support mounting ERA.

Being able to mount a light ERA package isn't really that impressive. If the base armor behind the ERA is not strong enough, then the metal jet from a single large enough warhead, (one with a 600 mm equivalent of raw pen, for example) can and will pierce the vehicle, even if the ERA tile is set off, depending on the angle of impact.
And besides, they are asking for 600mm passive, which means without any form of active armor, so that would discount any add-on ERA/NERA modules. And that's not all. As can be seen here -

They are asking for 600mm of passive protection for the entire 60-degree frontal arc, not just the front!! Which means, about two-thirds of the sides would have to be strongly armored as well!! So, all I can say is, "Good luck."
And the insanity doesn't even stop there, oh no!!

I mean no disrespect, but WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK?! Are they ordering a light tank or the fucking Bolo??!!

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

It's combat weight. Here -

View attachment 200885

And no, it's definitely NOT a perfectly reasonable expectation because Adamantium does not exist in real life!! Here, you have to work within the constraints of the materials that are available to you in real space.

To put things into perspective, in its standard configuration, the ZTQ-15's base armor is only rated against .50 BMG API rounds at 30 tons, and that too only at the front turret, with the highest armor configuration being rated against autocannon fire!! Heck, even the ~53-ton or so Armata's turret front is only rated against 57mm autocannon fire!! So, do keep that in mind.

As for your question regarding the demand for such a high power-to-weight ratio of 30:1 at the minimum, it's got to do with the rarefied atmosphere these tanks are supposed to be operating in, the same reason why the ZTQ-15 boasts a similar ratio as well.

Being able to mount a light ERA package isn't really that impressive. If the base armor behind the ERA is not strong enough, then the metal jet from a single large enough warhead, (one with a 600 mm equivalent of raw pen, for example) can and will pierce the vehicle, even if the ERA tile is set off, depending on the angle of impact.
And besides, they are asking for 600mm passive, which means without any form of active armor, so that would discount any add-on ERA/NERA modules. And that's not all. As can be seen here -

View attachment 200887

They are asking for 600mm of passive protection for the entire 60-degree frontal arc, not just the front!! Which means, about two-thirds of the sides would have to be strongly armored as well!! So, all I can say is, "Good luck."
And the insanity doesn't even stop there, oh no!!

View attachment 200892

I mean no disrespect, but WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK?! Are they ordering a light tank or the fucking Bolo??!!

The weight is the only thing I see as a problem, the penetration values in particular are very doable with 105mm cannon.

KE- means APFSDS - We know it can do 500mm+ at 2km.
CE- means gun tube fired heat round - Can easily do 800mm.
ATGM- Lots of ATGMs with 800mm pen

 

[Blood+]

The weight is the only thing I see as a problem, the penetration values in particular are very doable with 105mm cannon.

At 60-degrees impact angle??!!

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

At 60-degrees impact angle??!!

Yes. It doesnt state penetration, it can be satisfied with perforation too.


The chinesse APFSDS we saw was doing 540mm at 66 degrees.

 

[Blood+]

Yes. It doesnt state penetration, it can be satisfied with perforation too.

I know but even that seems quite impossible to me. The typical 105 APFSDS maxes out at ~260 mm or so at 2000 meters (60-degree), so even a perforation against a 500-mm-thick block of armor seems improbable, if not implausible.

 

[Blood+]

KE- means APFSDS - We know it can do 500mm+ at 2km.
CE- means gun tube fired heat round - Can easily do 800mm.

Not at 60 degree they can't!!

ATGM- Lots of ATGMs with 800mm pen

I didn't highlight the ATGM part.