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Fatalis

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Post last week of previous fy nothing else has been exciting nor even talked about
I personally think military purchasing spree has extinguished and all we have to wait for next fy end
Par tab toh election hoga
Anyway koi @Fatalis ji ko bulao unke posts aur shabd akashvani hai
Joh likhte hai woh ho jata hai
This fiscal year has just started and we already got a news of 250 more Pralay missiles being ordered.

Last month we saw so many contracts getting signed. So let's just wait and watch. Few deals which I wish for this year are:
1. AA guns for IAF
2. Deal for QRSAM
3. FSS
4. VSHORADS for IA
5. 100 more K-9 for IA
 
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Sachinananda

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This fiscal year has just started and we already got a news of 250 more Pralay missiles being ordered.

Last month we saw so many contracts getting signed. So let's just wait and watch. Few deals which I wish for this year are:
1. AA guns for IAF
2. Deal for QRSAM
3. FSS
4. VSHORADS for IA
But that's just proposal na
It's hasn't even got dac approval
Anyway bolte rahiye
 

Fulcrum 007

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RBU 6000 is a bloody genius system that we have adapted and changed for our own purposes. You show me any other system that allows you to engage incoming torpedoes, USVs, small swarming skiffs (Iranian style) and divers at that cost, and has the ability to quickly reload all 12 tubes rapidly.

In ADDITION, you can lay down MLRS style barrage from LSTs, you can lay down radar obscuring smokescreens, etc etc.

YES - we have rocket based smokescreen systems that can create an obtuse wall for incoming missiles.
Russian UDAV-1 like system would be even better. Iirc, we were working on a new launcher, any news on that?
 

Photon

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Why Argentinian IRBM Condor II and Agni-1 prototypes have some close design similarities??? due to the West German connection? #MBB

1681760403747.png
1681760425329.png
 

Lonewarrior

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Why Argentinian IRBM Condor II and Agni-1 prototypes have some close design similarities??? due to the West German connection? #MBB

View attachment 200771 View attachment 200772
Ummnn...yes but no.

Yes because MBB has helped us a lot in developing everything from Dhruv to missile technologies so it should be pretty obvious that they helped us in Agni too.

No because the they don't share the same design, it's simply convergent evolution. You ask a scientist of North Korea, a mechanic of Darra Adam Khel and a MIT student working for Raytheon to develop a 10 gram bullet that maintains supersonic speed up to 1km and see how close their designs would be.

During 80s the hottest missile all over the world was the US Pershing II, so everyone; be in India or Argentina tried to develop their own.
Pershing-2_two_stage_version.jpg

I hope now you can connect the dots
 

Photon

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Ummnn...yes but no.

Yes because MBB has helped us a lot in developing everything from Dhruv to missile technologies so it should be pretty obvious that they helped us in Agni too.

No because the they don't share the same design, it's simply convergent evolution. You ask a scientist of North Korea, a mechanic of Darra Adam Khel and a MIT student working for Raytheon to develop a 10 gram bullet that maintains supersonic speed up to 1km and see how close their designs would be.

During 80s the hottest missile all over the world was the US Pershing II, so everyone; be in India or Argentina tried to develop their own.
View attachment 200774
I hope now you can connect the dots
yes, why I am confused because In "Wings of Fire " APJ mentioned about the false Western accusation of German DLR involvement in the Agni program.
 

Lonewarrior

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yes, why I am confused because In "Wings of Fire " APJ mentioned about the false Western accusation of German DLR involvement in the Agni program.
During late 60s to 80s, the cooperation between Germany and India, especially military was at all time high.
Kurt Tank was helping us in Marut, Krauss-Maffei designed Arjun for us, Messerschmitt-Bölkow-Blohm was consultant for Dhruv...but the problem was, USA could not do much about these. So they started accusing MBB of helping in ballistic missile. And once you bring in words like ballistic missile, nuclear capable, weapon of mass destruction; the whole narrative changes
 

Blood+

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Just talking about the front hull.. That Belgian turret has ammo in its bustle with blow out panels in any case. And if it not so impressive then a 600mm HEAT protection in the frontal arc is pretty reasonable ask.
You completely misunderstood his point!!
 

SUPERPOWER

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AnantS

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yes, why I am confused because In "Wings of Fire " APJ mentioned about the false Western accusation of German DLR involvement in the Agni program.
no sir no mbb involved. West german was always stingy in help and if any - that help was completely overseed by US. RLV shapes are pretty similar in many cases. There are few shapes too chose from if you want a single warhead to be delivered with some precision. Check Iranian Missiles - they too have similar warhead design.
 
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Vamsi

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Ab sala yeh kya hai..!!!!!!
Ahh....Vijainder Thakur! nothing new here....

AMCA Mk-1 will lack at least three defining 5th-generation fighter engines.

  • Supercruise
  • Supermaneuverability
  • Sensor fusion
Sensor fusion ?? What the F**K is he smoking ?? Tejas-Mk2 itself will have sensor fusion,then why won't AMCA

1681789206064.png


1681789122928.png
 
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abingdonboy

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Ahh....Vijainder Thakur! nothing new here....


Sensor fusion ?? What the F**K is he smoking ?? Tejas-Mk2 itself will have sensor fusion,then why won't AMCA

View attachment 200791

View attachment 200790
The more times goes on the more I start to agree with @BON PLAN’s assertions that most of these capability revolutions are marketing terms pushed primarily by American OEMs that become normalised in the industry dominated by them because of the disproportionate spending of the US govt on defence and how influential the MIC is there.

‘super manoeuvreability’ and ‘sensor fusion’ sound explicitly like marketing terms straight out of LM’s brochures

as for supercruise- it’s not even something the F35 was asked to do not something it can actually do. Given how plagued that program is with engine issues the less said the better


the F22 was designed to a very specific requirement (and in the process became so uneconomical they had to curtail its production run), it’s a version of 5th gen (whatever that means) but it isn’t the sole benchmark. If AMCA meets the requirements outlined by the IAF then that’s sufficient, ironically these same clowns will praise the KAI and TAI developments which aren’t even claiming to be VLO/5th gen
 
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SavageKing456

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Ab sala yeh kya hai..!!!!!!
Take news from sources such as eurasian times and idrw with precautions
Half of their information is false
 

SavageKing456

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Well AMCA won't come till ccs isn't granted
The more delay in paperwork,more delay in CCS fund grant and more delay in prototype development
DRDO has now finalized the design so ccs should come fast now
Ghatak is faster than AMCA imo(if we see things right now however balance can tilt to either of these)
 

Chinmoy

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Why does everyone fight so much smh :/

Anyway, heres the thing - first of all, pen values depend on what type of RHA you are using, and the difference is quite noticeable. 540 at 2000 wont go beyond 650 at 500m, even if we take the pen value to be reliable and not bumped up for export. The thing to keep in mind is that this is passive protection, i.e. without ERA. With ERA, it should easily prevent perforation of the armour, up to rounds capable of around ~800-900 RHA pen, like chinese MBT rounds.

Secondly, its a pretty weird statement to say that "himalayas" will make the fights close distance. If anything, they will increase the range of engagement, especially in areas like Ladakh where the lack of vegetation & construction and the relatively cold environment will make tanks easily visible thermally.

Lastly, RFI is not the end of the deal. RFI is a dream list that is released for designers to try and meet. RFP is based on what is actually possible after seeing the designs.
Problem with people here are, they don't understand simple documentation and why those documentations are sought for or required.

Take a look at these specifications. Could anyone tell me that how on earth a 105 mm APFSDS round could achieve 500 mm RHAe penetration at 2000 mtr and that too at 60 degree angle? As far as I know, none of the existing 105 KE round could do that. Please correct me if I am wrong.
But does this mean the person or the body who put the specification is a bunch of fool? 105 can't do this, but 125 mm could definitely achieve it. And Sprut sports a 125 mm main gun. So the first thing in specification the user has put is,
(i) Main Gun. 105mm and above calibre.
So if we just go by this specification and others, we would be simply pitching for Sprut light tank. Now do we want that?
So the so called fools has mitigated the fact by putting a need of decent armour. We all know that if we want decent armour and armament both, we would have to reach some middle ground. Now even the passive protection of 600 mm RHAe has been sought for the frontal portion with a 60 degree arc which basically is small portion. Now IMO, this is achievable within the 27/28 ton category. But I may be wrong here.
Point is, users who created this RFI knows better then Rajpal Yadav's over here who does a chest beating on each and everything under the sun.
As you said, RFI is not a technical specification. Its just a set of parameters which has been laid down to give prospective designers enough wriggling space to offer something.

As about things getting up close and personal in Himalayas, I am saying this based on my personal experience. Our stand is Defensive-Offense. As long as we don't change it into Offensive-Defense we need to work on our armour too.
 

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SwordOfDarkness

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Problem with people here are, they don't understand simple documentation and why those documentations are sought for or required.

Take a look at these specifications. Could anyone tell me that how on earth a 105 mm APFSDS round could achieve 500 mm RHAe penetration at 2000 mtr and that too at 60 degree angle? As far as I know, none of the existing 105 KE round could do that. Please correct me if I am wrong.
But does this mean the person or the body who put the specification is a bunch of fool? 105 can't do this, but 125 mm could definitely achieve it. And Sprut sports a 125 mm main gun. So the first thing in specification the user has put is,
So if we just go by this specification and others, we would be simply pitching for Sprut light tank. Now do we want that?
So the so called fools has mitigated the fact by putting a need of decent armour. We all know that if we want decent armour and armament both, we would have to reach some middle ground. Now even the passive protection of 600 mm RHAe has been sought for the frontal portion with a 60 degree arc which basically is small portion. Now IMO, this is achievable within the 27/28 ton category. But I may be wrong here.
Point is, users who created this RFI knows better then Rajpal Yadav's over here who does a chest beating on each and everything under the sun.
As you said, RFI is not a technical specification. Its just a set of parameters which has been laid down to give prospective designers enough wriggling space to offer something.

As about things getting up close and personal in Himalayas, I am saying this based on my personal experience. Our stand is Defensive-Offense. As long as we don't change it into Offensive-Defense we need to work on our armour too.
Somewhat right, but also wrong in a few areas.

Yes, 105mm guns can and do pen over 500mm at 2 kilometers. 125mm guns are needed only for penetrating >650-700mm of effective armour. One example was the chinese APFSDS provided by you.

Also I am unsure what "personal experience" you have of mountain warfare, but no, mountains increase range of combat, not decrease. Regardless of posture.

At the end of day, IA has put the requirement of a near perfect light tank in RFI. Most likely all parameters wont be met. That can be corrected kn RFP.
 

Chinmoy

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Somewhat right, but also wrong in a few areas.

Yes, 105mm guns can and do pen over 500mm at 2 kilometers. 125mm guns are needed only for penetrating >650-700mm of effective armour. One example was the chinese APFSDS provided by you.
You missed the 60 degree angle part here.

Also I am unsure what "personal experience" you have of mountain warfare, but no, mountains increase range of combat, not decrease. Regardless of posture.

At the end of day, IA has put the requirement of a near perfect light tank in RFI. Most likely all parameters wont be met. That can be corrected kn RFP.
Only when you are occupying heights and have a defensive position and could see the enemy before they see you. But in general, always be ready for surprise around the corner or hillock or peak in mountain warfare.
 

SwordOfDarkness

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You missed the 60 degree angle part here.
No, I didnt. We have moved on from WW2 style shells. Perforation from APFSDS actually increases with the angle of a plate.

Only when you are occupying heights and have a defensive position and could see the enemy before they see you. But in general, always be ready for surprise around the corner or hillock or peak in mountain warfare.
You do realise that "around the corner" doesnt work for tanks? And infantry screen, or if you want the cheapest of drones can be used to prevent any "surprises" beyond a peak.
Mountains have kilometers between them buddy.
 

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