DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Swesh]

 

[Tuco]

Aam? But a question though, was it fired over land? That doesn't happen right with all the villages around.

 

[Lonewarrior]

then why use BCUs for MANPADS

There're multiple reasons for this
- the diameter of typical MANPAD is 70-90mm and that of Spike is 130mm; so you already have way less SWaP to add anything extra
- Spike's seeker works on a relay basis in case of LOAL; the missile is fired with its CCD tracking the target using AI (in case of range more than the cooling time of seeker or using INS in case of pure LOAL) and as soon as the IIR cools enough it get relayed to IIR...and for this you need a datalink; either in the form of optical fibre cables in lower ranged variants or RF in case of NLOS. You usually don't have the luxury of adding a datalink in MANPADS.
- The engagement time of MANPADs are way way less than Spike; you can't do stunts like initially locking with CCD then transferring to IIR. A MANPAD would have engaged its target before the seeker of Spike cools.
- So the only option left for MANPADs is LOBL and for that you need BCU.

Any idea what does 2nd point means.

No idea; maybe they're using some other terms for something. Coz afaik there isn't anything like "cooling too much"; there are always failsafes on such systems.

 

[Lonewarrior]

To clarify things here, I have no issue with 4-5km range for Spike lR with uncooled seeker but as range increases more contrast is needed and hence good cooling is needed. So, Spike ER version with 10-16km range is SUS where no external cooling is provided, doesn't that posses problem in target acquisition at such long ranges.

Let's be clear that each ir/iir seeker has a cooldown time which once active continues to provide clear image for x amount of time and after that image contrast decreases significantly, according to above point in reply, it stops working. Usually this time is less than minute for smaller man portable systems, more inorders of 30 around secs, AAMs like R73 have their own cryogenic cooler while manportable ones don't.

Javelin ATGM has a BCU in its launch tube while there's no sign of such thing remotely on a spike Lr or even ER version launch tube assembly.View attachment 195146

So, here's the thing I believe Spike failed trials in Indian Deserts and Javelin passed as we know from trials conducted far back. And it also begs the question about the effectiveness of Spike missile in Fire n Forget operation.

For Javelin, Operator sees target through CLU, activates BCU and as BCU can provide a total 4 min of cooling, allows for multiple target acquisitions if initial acquisition is not achieved by seeker. Also better contrast. Now operator sees target through CLU and then activates IR seeker, now switches to seeker view and on acquiring, fires it and the missile flies. Seeker cooldown time starts and within cooldown time, missile flies to target, hits it and mission done.

For spike, no BCU. Operator sees the target through CLU, switches to tv seeker view, and tries to acquire it, he can then either fire the missile on acquisition or on grid reference here or he can try to acquire it through iir seeker too, he presses the button to acquire the target and cooldown time starts even before flying, so hence the countdown starts and if target not acquired within first limited seconds, seeker is rendered ineffective for long range acquisition and only seeker remaining is tv seeker. Or he can fire the missile on grid or with tv seeker and then he can press the button to acquire target through iir seeker and there are limited amount of times it can reacquire target depending on contrast through man in the loop on independently.

First of all ability of tv seeker to acquire and keep track of targets at long range is not better than that of IIR seeker.
Now this shows how man in the loop capability for Spike is essential feature for it for the way it was designed since design doesn't allows wiggle room for iir seeker target acquisition.
Disadvantage being that in low contrast environment the uncooled iir seeker is very ineffective. Also very low attempts of target acquisition is also problematic. And after first few attempts,, IIR seeker is rendered ineffective or let's just say low effective.

And that's why probably Javelin passed desert trials in India and Spike did not bcoz of the way Javelin missile has a cooled seeker and a BCU which helps a lot for low contrast targets.

Which then ultimately leads me to question if MPATGM has some sort of internal micro cooler for its IIR seeker. I don't see any kind of BCU on its launch tube from prototype pics.
This also leads to the question of what about this new NAGmk2 programme.

And Doesn't this makes Spike ER a situational Fire n Forget missile depending on initial target acquisition by IIR seeker and environmental conditions. Where operator might need to use man in the loop option to acquire target on the final approach of missile on fire on grid target command, if the initial lock is not achieved. 10-16km range seems already too big for a uncooled seeker.p

I'll try to answer all of the points you made with a single fact...there're technologies that fall between cryogenic engines and BCU.

One example is compression engines; these are less effective than external BCU but are way faster than cryo engines.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Something was tested yesterday but was not reported by drdo it was reported by local media may be because of spy case they kept secrecy

Even in case of something secret you must issue a NOTAM

 

[Sayman Ame]

Something was tested yesterday but was not reported by drdo it was reported by local media may be because of spy case they kept secrecy

Bengalureans be like :

 

[Blademaster]

Yeah; to some extent true.
But things are changing pretty rapidly. Poland's purchase list is a good example.

Poland would be lucky if it could get half of the items on the list. Poland will bankrupt itself quickly.

 

[Swesh]

Very good
Now plot that NOTAM on a map and see which missile suits its area the most

Notam translation is pain in ass especially translating coordinates in regular format

 

[Lonewolf]

A0403/23 - AERIAL ACT IS TAKING PLACE WI AREA BOUNDED BY COORD:
POINT A-211455.00N 0864838.00E
POINT B-194547.00N 0874804.00E
POINT C-210243.00N 0885245.00E
POINT D-213535.00N 0871042.00E
AND
POINT A-211455.00N 0864838.00E
NO OVER FLY ACT IS APPROVED WI THE ABV MENTIONED DNG AREA. DRG THE
HR OF ACT, THE FLW ATS RTE/SEGMENTS ARE RERTE/NOT AVBL IN KOLKATA
FIR:
1.Q10 NOT AVBL BTN BIXON AND CEA.
2.Q11 NOT AVBL BTN CEA AND SURUP.
3.A465 NOT AVBL BTN CEA AND PALKO. ALTN RTE:
CEA-G450-JJS-DCT-JRS-DCT-VVZ. (BIDIRECTIONAL)
4.W41 NOT AVBL BTN CEA AND SURUP. ALTN RTE:
CEA-G450-JJS-DCT-JRS-W50-BBS. (BIDIRECTIONAL)
5.N895 NOT AVBL BTN BUBKO AND BIXON. ALTN RTE:
BUBKO-DCT-TATUX-L759-BBS. (BIDIRECTIONAL)
FL260, FL300, FL320 AND FL360 AVBL FOR WB ACFT
6.G472 NOT AVBL BTN BUBKO AND BIXON. ALTN RTE:
BUBKO-DCT-TATUX-DCT-BBS. (BIDIRECTIONAL)
ALTN RTE AVBL AT OR BLW FL240 FOR WB FLT.
7.M773 NOT AVBL BTN BUBKO AND CEA. ALTN RTE:
BUBKO-DCT-DOPID-DCT-CEA. (BIDIRECTIONAL)
8.L759 NOT AFFECTED.
FL280, FL340, FL380 AND FL400 AVBL FOR WB ACFT
OTHER WB LVL ABVL ON ACP BASIS BY KOLKATA ATC. NO LVL RESTRICTION
FOR EB ACFT. SFC - UNL, FEB 27 28 MAR 01 02 0430-0630 0900-1100, 27 FEB 04:30
2023 UNTIL 02 MAR 11:00 2023. CREATED: 24 FEB 09:50 2023

Where did you copied it from , value of coordinaties is a bit weird , normally it's in degrees

 

[Lonewarrior]

Where did you copied it from , value of coordinaties is a bit weird , normally it's in degrees

Values are not weird
Looks like the decimal is placed bit too far

 

[Swesh]

Where did you copied it from , value of coordinaties is a bit weird , normally it's in degrees

Defence notam site put VECF in ICAO code

 

[Swesh]

Where did you copied it from , value of coordinaties is a bit weird , normally it's in degrees

Defense Internet NOTAM Service

 

[Swesh]

Look at screenshot

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Some intresting development

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

 

[Lonewarrior]

Good
Now they just need to make a plane and it'll be good to go

 

[jai jaganath]

Good
Now they just need to make a plane and it'll be good to go

Mast sarcasm mara re

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Good
Now they just need to make a plane and it'll be good to go

Ur right tachnically on another note can we use this tachnology on other projects? Like drones?

 

[porky_kicker]