DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[aspdeepak]

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Show me a single sentence of mine where I've claimed that ATGMs are better than SAMs and will replace them.
You quote just one and I'll leave this forum.

"An ATGM, despite having a tandem warhead is a cost effective solution to deal with threats like UAVs"

Why are you struggling so much to get this simple logic

Eh, not really. ATGMs as SAMs are more of a target of opportunity type thing, like if you are infantryman and see heli but dont have MANPADs so you use ATGM.

Anti drone is usually gun based, all others are not cost effective. Even gun based is less cost effective when you factor in initial purchase cost, but its a lot better than anything else.

 

[aspdeepak]

Eh, not really. ATGMs as SAMs are more of a target of opportunity type thing, like if you are infantryman and see heli but dont have MANPADs so you use ATGM.

Anti drone is usually gun based, all others are not cost effective. Even gun based is less cost effective when you factor in initial purchase cost, but its a lot better than anything else.

Precisely that was my point !!

 

[Lonewarrior]

Ok let's put this to rest, manpads good for fast movers and all aerial targets while atgms with proxy sensor which are fast ones like ataka b and vikhr which travels like 400-600m/sec can be reasonable effective against helis, drones which are very low flying like a 1/2 km above ground and incoming jets.

Engagement capability of manpads will always be larger than a ATGM and good for wide range of targets. There could be a case of using modified ATGMs for some of roles but seriously still slower ones like hellfire with around 250m/sec speed further pose a limited engagement envelope compared to that of ataka and vikhr. And at some point you have to ask if dedicated anti UAV systems with micro missiles made for it would be much better than some modified ATGMs.
View attachment 194881

View attachment 194882

There's a concept of layered defence.
In case of US they have GBIs, THAADs, PACs, NASAMs, AIM-9X, Stinger, Auto-cannons.

The whole point of layered defence is that you don't use more money than it's required; can you engage a helicopter with PAC? Definitely, but is it wise given you have way cheaper Stinger to do so? Nope.

Just to add another layer between auto-cannon (cheaper but limited) and Stinger (costly but effective) they came up with plan to use existing stock of Hellfires.
And it's too a stopgap measure; they are also working on things like Coyote and Coyote 2 to lessen the burden from Stinger. (Way more cheaper but still effective)

My first point was; if US can go to such extent that it can repurpose ATGMs as SAMs to lower cost and increase logistics; then is it wise for us to have two different missiles in almost same category.

And my second point was, notice the "gaps" between US air defence. See how much of an upgrade the next layer of AD is compared to the previous. Now see that in case of QRSAM and Akash-NG.

My points were this simple. But unfortunately people whose priority is definitely not arguing with me made this whole discussion a shitshow.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Eh, not really. ATGMs as SAMs are more of a target of opportunity type thing, like if you are infantryman and see heli but dont have MANPADs so you use ATGM.

Anti drone is usually gun based, all others are not cost effective. Even gun based is less cost effective when you factor in initial purchase cost, but its a lot better than anything else.

Yup, covered pretty much all of your points in the above post.

 

[aspdeepak]

There's a concept of layered defence.
In case of US they have GBIs, THAADs, PACs, NASAMs, AIM-9X, Stinger, Auto-cannons.

The whole point of layered defence is that you don't use more money than it's required; can you engage a helicopter with PAC? Definitely, but is it wise given you have way cheaper Stinger to do so? Nope.

Just to add another layer between auto-cannon (cheaper but limited) and Stinger (costly but effective) they came up with plan to use existing stock of Hellfires.
And it's too a stopgap measure; they are also working on things like Coyote and Coyote 2 to lessen the burden from Stinger. (Way more cheaper but still effective)

My first point was; if US can go to such extent that it can repurpose ATGMs as SAMs to lower cost and increase logistics; then is it wise for us to have two different missiles in almost same category.

And my second point was, notice the "gaps" between US air defence. See how much of an upgrade the next layer of AD is compared to the previous. Now see that in case of QRSAM and Akash-NG.

My points were this simple. But unfortunately people whose priority is definitely not arguing with me made this whole discussion a shitshow.

Thanks for finally understanding the concept/cost of layered air defence.

 

[WarmongerLSK]

Holy shit! That's loud. Is it normal for airplanes/Tejas?

 

[aspdeepak]

Holy shit! That's loud. Is it normal for airplanes/Tejas?

Yes they are pretty loud, if they are in afterburner it would be even more noisier...

It roars like a thunder...

Pilots wear noise cancelling headsets otherwise they can't communicate with their peers.

Tejas is a beautiful bird...

 

[Love Charger]

Remember a gentleman laughing at me on how can an ATGM be used as a SAM?
Guess what; our VSHORADs too is an ATGM.

Time and time ATGMs have shown their capability to engage low flying targets, perhaps the most famous being Stugnas downing Alligators in Ukraine. There also have been cases where ATGMs have been modified to act as MANPADs; the most interesting being that of Iranian Qaem-M where they added a proximity fuze to a TOW copy.

But as of now there have been no (obviously there maybe some that I'm unaware of) MANPAD to be developed from an ATGM.

Enters DRDO's VSHORADsView attachment 194875
- rear folding control fin; same as Nag/HELINA/Dhruvastra/SANT
- mid-body sustainer motor with four Venturi type nozzles; same as Nag
- mid-body folding stabilization fins; again same as Nag/HELI...
- warhead is obviously different; most probably a pre-fragmented type
- perhaps the most interesting feature that everyone's noticing is uncooled seeker. But no-one asked why this when every other MANPAD uses cartridge type cooled seeker. The answer is; NAG family also uses the same uncooled IIR seeker.

Bhai sahab jab anti tank hi anti air hai tab fir ek hi missile har desh ki army kyu nai use karti?kya aap
igla se tank phod sakte ho?
Jba dono ek hi tab sarkar kyu army kyu alag alag buy karti hai?

 

[skunk works]

Will want pilot agree to fly?

Why are senior officials allowed to directly comment? Where are the clowns in the press office? Once again unrealistic expectations and hype will be created.

 

[skunk works]

General Atomics salesmen visiting Aero India and ecstatic about the 30x Predator B deal
View attachment 194180

Bhai general atomic products have moved far far beyond 2D renders

 

[Vamsi]

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

We don't have any indegenous engine for this project?

 

[Fatalis]

A possible replacement for Il-76.

 

[Anupu]

Another day, another honey trap but this time its interesting:

57 yr old (A senior official of DRDO), working at ITR kalam island, honey trapped.

They sent pics on whatsapp, he sent secrets

DRDO Official Shares Secret Information With Pakistani Spy For Sexual Gratification, Arrested

The 57-year-old official shared secret information related to Indias defence sector with a Pakistani spy and was posted at the DRDOs Integrated Test Range (ITR) in Odisha.

zeenews.india.com

we need NIA like body to handle secret information, these cases are handled by local poliz.

Bhai kam se kam paise toh le leta?

 

[Love Charger]

Another day, another honey trap:

57 yr old (A senior official of DRDO), working at ITR kalam island, honey trapped.

They sent pics on whatsapp, allegedly he sent secrets.

DRDO Official Shares Secret Information With Pakistani Spy For Sexual Gratification, Arrested

The 57-year-old official shared secret information related to Indias defence sector with a Pakistani spy and was posted at the DRDOs Integrated Test Range (ITR) in Odisha.

zeenews.india.com

we need NIA like body to handle secret information, these cases are handled by local poliz.

Koi inko reddit ke indians gone wild page ke baare me gyan do.
Ya fir only fans ke baare me , matlab hadd hai Yaar.
Konsa wo inko physically touch karne waali thi.
Aur is gaand ke scientist ko nai pata tha ki koi ladki jo genuine hogi wo national secret nai maangegi!!!!
Pehli baar to hua nai hai ye, matalab drdo aur MOD wale itte gadhe hain kya?
Abe jaagruk karo be, matlab chamdi dikhi nai ki gaddari chaalu. Sala itne tharki kaise hogye ye log !!!!

 

[Love Charger]

Bhai kam se kam paise toh le leta?

Utna dimagh hota to lafde me padta ye aadmi?

 

[JBH22]

A possible replacement for Il-76.View attachment 194907

So we fund their R&D and what do we get out of it?
Tactical and Heavy lift already dependent on US/EU (C-17/C-130 and incoming C-295)
Modernised IL-76 can be a safe hedge.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Sala itne tharki kaise hogye ye log !!!!

Actually quite a good question

Well it can be explained as a result of not experiencing...ummm...to quote an expert...

a male human and a female humans of similar age group, seemingly healthy the human female has inserted the corpus spongiosum of the male human in her buccal cavity and she is exploring the epithelium of the said male organ with the dorsal surface in her oral cavity.
While the male is urging her to explore the radix of his intromittent organ, that is the corpus spongiosium.

...in copious amounts during youth.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

We don't have any indegenous engine for this project?

AFAIK we dont have any turboshaft engines, even heli ones are of french design though not sure if we make them or import.