DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Srinie]

And if you go on and see their product line up, almost all of them are either based on, derived from or license built from foreign OEM. In other words, he is just doing what OFB has been doing all these years. Same with others too. But I don't have issue with that too. You have to absorb technology and that is a good way to do that.
My problem is, he keeps on beating his drum more then what he could deliver. He could improve ATAGS only if order is given. Why can't he improve it before hand and place it under test?
He could invest in ATHOS license or ATHOS derived Bharat-52, but would wait for orders to come to invest in ATAGS.

Bharat 52 is not derived from Athos . It is based on Gerald Bull designed GC45. They own the design now that they own Noricum. They did the right thing by buying an existing gun and upgrading it . As for doing the same for ATAGs why should they invest money in a programme where the user is so delusional and unprofessional. Besides he has his shareholders who he is answerable too for whom he needs to make money . You say you have a problem with Baba Kalyani is because he is flashy that's nonsense . You have a problem because he is not a cash cow to the armed forces and the babudom like the foreign companies and OFB. Kalyani should focus on foreign sales . Once that happens the Indian army will come to it with proverbial begging bowl

 

[Lonewarrior]

Bharat 52. Basically a towed ATMOS version
ULH. Again based on BAE blue print. Remember, the Titanium version again is a hot air balloon till now.

I can go on and on on various technical details, designs, mechanisms like recoil system, counter-recoil, breech, loading, magazine; but ultimately it'll mean nothing to you.

So I'll ask you a very simple question; something based on common sense.

If Elbit is interested in Indian market with their ATMOS and ATHOS and BAe is already there with Mahindra; then are the f*ing morons to transfer technology to Kalyani and increase their compition? Or in case of BAe, cannibalise its own market share?

 

[Suryavanshi]

On a related note

They aren't sitting on their asses.

 

[Suryavanshi]

I guess it is easier to find skilled labor in the west.

 

[Chinmoy]

Bharat 52 is not derived from Athos . It is based on Gerald Bull designed GC45. They own the design now that they own Noricum. They did the right thing by buying an existing gun and upgrading it . As for doing the same for ATAGs why should they invest money in a programme where the user is so delusional and unprofessional. Besides he has his shareholders who he is answerable too for whom he needs to make money . You say you have a problem with Baba Kalyani is because he is flashy that's nonsense . You have a problem because he is not a cash cow to the armed forces and the babudom like the foreign companies and OFB. Kalyani should focus on foreign sales . Once that happens the Indian army will come to it with proverbial begging bowl

I said ATMOS, not ATHOS. But I would stand corrected here regarding GC45. Bottom line is, they would invest in bringing production line of a foreign OEM or forming a JV rather then investing in R&D.

I would vehemently say that Baba Kalyani made a stupid point when he said that weight could be worked out once order is received. Do you know why its a stupid comment?
Because the moment you change the metallurgy of the gun to bring down the weight, it would have to undergo all the tests again to certify itself. Its a common sense that each and every metal or alloy would react different with changing temperature, pressure and stress. So he is OK with undertaking all the tests again? Or are we ready to see all the tests again just for his antics?

Yes. Baba did made a stupid comment and I have problem with that. All he could have done instead of his hot balloon talks is, out of 5 prototypes, make one prototype as per his knowledge and proof that what he said is true and can be done. But no, he has to just give interview rather then work on it.

 

[Chinmoy]

If Elbit is interested in Indian market with their ATMOS and ATHOS and BAe is already there with Mahindra; then are the f*ing morons to transfer technology to Kalyani and increase their compition? Or in case of BAe, cannibalise its own market share?

First of all, be clear with, What the F*k you want to ask.

 

[Chinmoy]

View attachment 186762

I guess it is easier to find skilled labor in the west.

BF has immense experience in vehicle industry. They started their business from there.
But have you ever wondered why they came up with Paramount JV?

 

[Lonewarrior]

Kalyani got orders for M4, and it'll increase too. MoD gave zero f to whether it's copied or licensed. Or whether some random guy at a random place called DFI doesn't like Kalyani.

If MoD wants then it'll purchase ATHOS/ATMOS no matter what indigenous option they have.

I guess it's better for me to not engage in this stupid argument.
Peace out

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Which department this mission comes under?

 

[Eagle Eye]

New RFI is for 155/52 which operate with EXISTING Gun towing vehicles(GTV).
Is there any info on how many GTV are there and how much service life left?

 

[TwinTails]

View attachment 186694

Mobility at 16000 feet. Good luck towing a 50 ton K9 at that altitude.

At 16000 feet, it is much easier to use then SARANG that is in 10 tons range.
A t-90 and t-72 have limitations at 16000 feet so, light tank is being deceloped according to this article.

India to kickstart mega indigenous project for light tanks amid confrontation with China - Times of India

Times of India brings the Latest & Top Breaking News on Politics and Current Affairs in India & around the World, Cricket, Sports, Business, Bollywood News and Entertainment, Science, Technology, Health & Fitness news & opinions from leading columnists.

www.google.com

And mind you, drdo light tank which it is developing for these heights too is in range of 24 tons, so that future tank is OK but ATAGS is not.

I tell you all members, when that ZORAVAR will be doing trials this same type of RFI will arrive where weight requirement will be below 20 tons. So, there my prediction.

Now to you, Long time a lurker here but one thing is certain you change your argument faster than even chameleon. The argument which you made regarding 16000 feet is already dead after this article.

Now please bring that 20000 feet argument.

One thing is certain, the Indian army after releasing this RFI is officially import army.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

 

[Chinmoy]

New RFI is for 155/52 which operate with EXISTING Gun towing vehicles(GTV).
Is there any info on how many GTV are there and how much service life left?

The existing TATRA and TATA FAT are not suitable to tow even 14 ton ATHOS.
IA is purchasing AL and TATA FAT of 20 ton towing capacity for that.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

At 16000 feet, it is much easier to use then SARANG that is in 10 tons range.
A t-90 and t-72 have limitations at 16000 feet so, light tank is being deceloped according to this article.

India to kickstart mega indigenous project for light tanks amid confrontation with China - Times of India

Times of India brings the Latest & Top Breaking News on Politics and Current Affairs in India & around the World, Cricket, Sports, Business, Bollywood News and Entertainment, Science, Technology, Health & Fitness news & opinions from leading columnists.

www.google.com

And mind you, drdo light tank which it is developing for these heights too is in range of 24 tons, so that future tank is OK but ATAGS is not.

I tell you all members, when that ZORAVAR will be doing trials this same type of RFI will arrive where weight requirement will be below 20 tons. So, there my prediction.

Now to you, Long time a lurker here but one thing is certain you change your argument faster than even chameleon. The argument which you made regarding 16000 feet is already dead after this article.

Now please bring that 20000 feet argument.

One thing is certain, the Indian army after releasing this RFI is officially import army.

I'm now half expecting another gimpy RFI that only the Sprut qualifies. IA brass was quick to "consider" 30+ examples after Galwan. The Sprut-SD weighs more or less 20 tonnes so expect some potential shenanigans.

 

[Chinmoy]

At 16000 feet, it is much easier to use then SARANG that is in 10 tons range.
A t-90 and t-72 have limitations at 16000 feet so, light tank is being deceloped according to this article.

India to kickstart mega indigenous project for light tanks amid confrontation with China - Times of India

Times of India brings the Latest & Top Breaking News on Politics and Current Affairs in India & around the World, Cricket, Sports, Business, Bollywood News and Entertainment, Science, Technology, Health & Fitness news & opinions from leading columnists.

www.google.com

And mind you, drdo light tank which it is developing for these heights too is in range of 24 tons, so that future tank is OK but ATAGS is not.

I tell you all members, when that ZORAVAR will be doing trials this same type of RFI will arrive where weight requirement will be below 20 tons. So, there my prediction.

Now to you, Long time a lurker here but one thing is certain you change your argument faster than even chameleon. The argument which you made regarding 16000 feet is already dead after this article.

Now please bring that 20000 feet argument.

One thing is certain, the Indian army after releasing this RFI is officially import army.

Arey mere baap. Try to understand technicalities even before commenting anything.

We have deployed and would be deploying tanks at 11 to 12k feet. Not 16k feet.

The project Zorawar would be powered by a 1000 bhp or 1400 bhp engine. The FATs are powered by a 350 bhp engine. Comparing the power requirement of a SPGH and a towed gun is even more outrageous then comparing an Apple and Orange.

Maaf kar bhai. Maaf kar. Aise bina sar pair ke comments mat kar.

 

[Eagle Eye]

IA is purchasing AL and TATA FAT of 20 ton towing capacity for that.

250....20 ton truck is for atags. New RFI artillery is weighs below 15tn abt using EXISTING GTVs.

 

[Sanglamorre]

Which department this mission comes under?

We kinda need to work on the names. Don't just name it a Moonvehicle or Skyvehicle, or in this case, Fish 6000.

 

[Chinmoy]

250....20 ton truck is for atags. New RFI artillery is weighs below 15tn abt using EXISTING GTVs.

Do you use a mobile? I am sure you do. And I am sure you also use SD card in it. Now if your mobile supports max 128 GB SD card, for better performance the OEM would suggest you to use 120GB or lower SD card.

Now coming to the RFI, first of all you have to understand why RFI are released. Its not that IA don't know what systems are available there in market. But they have to account for other aspects too. Now in the weight category, they have kept it at less than 15 ton preference.
Now lets just consider ATAGS here. DRDO is not going to present DRDO because they are not manufacturer. So it would be presented by Kalyani and TATA as two different system. Lets assume the TATA version weighs 17 ton and Kalyani version 16 ton. Lets also bring in ATHOS at 14 ton.
Now you have 3 different system to choose for. Weight here is just one aspect. You have came to know that only 1 system is there which come close to your weight preference. So while making the RFP or bid, you have to keep the weight field open for all three which would make it less then 18 tons. There you would write that the platform should not exceed 18 ton in weight.
Now comes the firing power. All three guns would have different max and min firing range. Based on RFI, you could decide what should be the scale of firing range.
Then comes the non-indigenous component. With the RFI you would come to know that what is the amount of indigenous content Kalyani and TATA has kept in their system which would eventually decide the cost factor.

So RFI is just a bunch of technical and price document which enables the user to prepare the field for upcoming RFP/bid. Here they have not laid down any parameters. They have just asked some generic questions. So the weight has been kept as a preference. If they find out that 3 or more than 3 systems is under 15 ton category, they would make it a parameter in final RFP. But if they find out that only 1 system is under 15 ton category, they would have to broaden the field to allow other participants as a single vendor bid is going to get reject eventually.

So the existing 20 ton FATs would be used as towing vehicles for it.

 

[Kuldeepm952]

The army specified and drdo could not achieve ..
Army asks for higher capacity trucks after the fact .
Now you can snort whatever you want after that .

That's a big claim
Any source saying that army specified ATAGS for less than 15 tons weight and Drdo wasn't able to achieve that or just some throwing whatever in air.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

We kinda need to work on the names. Don't just name it a Moonvehicle or Skyvehicle, or in this case, Fish 6000.

Haha I kinda like these names that's just me ig