DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Kuldeepm952]

From launcher pics, atleast one thing is that per launcher it has 2x missiles of akash. Possibly compact version of the missile with upgrades in seeker and software IG.

Nah, any comparison is like apple to bolts, both missiles have different propulsion systems, for reference Barak8 range is impressive considering that the thing weighs very less and relatively compact for its class

 

[Chinmoy]

15 per IBG is the estimate I saw years ago. 300 odd across all RAPIDS and IBGs

As of now, the NAMICA/ NAMIS are planned with existing R&S battalion. When IBG would come, then too these would serve in western sector. So I don't see the numbers going upto 300 anytime soon. Even in current scenario it would be around 150.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

As of now, the NAMICA/ NAMIS are planned with existing R&S battalion. When IBG would come, then too these would serve in western sector. So I don't see the numbers going upto 300 anytime soon. Even in current scenario it would be around 150.

150 is even worse. Barely enough for 5 IBGs. If we take recon lightly, we'll end up walking into an Asal Uttar ourselves.

 

[Kuldeepm952]

Its under development and will be ready 'soon'**

** soon - an expression of relative time period in indian defence circles which can range anywhere between 5 to 10 years or even never.

Basically a Schrödinger's cat

 

[omaebakabaka]

Why do we name someone else kid . We can name our kid . This thing i cnt understand . May be its a operational requirement or something ?

Congis are securlarly unoriginal too....only out competed by genderless US congress and EU skirt gangs

 

[binayak95]

150 is even worse. Barely enough for 5 IBGs. If we take recon lightly, we'll end up walking into an Asal Uttar ourselves.

Naa, Recce and Screen is never meant to engage enemy frontline units.

At best they should be capable of dealing with enemy Recce and Screen - ATGMs are meant for tank destroyer units. Reserves of concentrated anti armour units that can deal with any sudden penetrations.

 

[Chinmoy]

150 is even worse. Barely enough for 5 IBGs. If we take recon lightly, we'll end up walking into an Asal Uttar ourselves.

Let IBGs get form first. Then we could talk about it.

But even if it gets formed, I don't see more then 2 IBGs in western sector.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Naa, Recce and Screen is never meant to engage enemy frontline units.

At best they should be capable of dealing with enemy Recce and Screen - ATGMs are meant for tank destroyer units. Reserves of concentrated anti armour units that can deal with any sudden penetrations.

Its not talking about engaging frontline units. I am saying Pakis ended up in that swamp in Asal Uttar due to lack of recce.

Let IBGs get form first. Then we could talk about it.

But even if it gets formed, I don't see more then 2 IBGs in western sector.

You mean rest will remain Divs? Maybe we are retaining all the three Armoured Divs and using IBG only in Pivot Corps to create the gaps?
Basically a Sundarji-Cold Start hybrid, you mean?

 

[omaebakabaka]

150 is even worse. Barely enough for 5 IBGs. If we take recon lightly, we'll end up walking into an Asal Uttar ourselves.

I would not order anything in huge quantities with no serious record if I was spending my money on a new model even if its tested especially since our MIC is not totally proven....you can call it catch 22 but way to go would be to go for limited foot print in inducting these with criteria to move to phase 2 on an established timeline to make larger acquisitions. Ton's of problems show up in version 1 even with established players that have decades of MIC manufacturing not to mention support, maintenance and training and continuous roadmap....modern ones are even more notoriously buggy with all the software driven stuff.

We need a technical commission to oversee import substitutions on the likes of Yuri Borisov that can resist the sabotage from brass and lobbies, this is a process that will take a decade and half atleast even with intent

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

He also mentions 'Dhanush' in quotes, is that an ATGM ?

Dhanush is old name for LCH that was used in services before it was inducted as Prachand.

in a close in dogfight, its hard to say who will dominate - air combat is never one on one, and rarely if ever is it predictable.
The Su30MKI is certainly dominant - but its not a given.

Check Su30MKI simulated dogfights, it heavily dominates. Theres a model in DCS which very closely resembles real life, estimated from airshows etc where they took it/its sister planes to the limit. Search SU-30 on Growling Sidewinder's channel, will find some good stuff.

 

[binayak95]

Its not talking about engaging frontline units. I am saying Pakis ended up in that swamp in Asal Uttar due to lack of recce.


You mean rest will remain Divs? Maybe we are retaining all the three Armoured Divs and using IBG only in Pivot Corps to create the gaps?
Basically a Sundarji-Cold Start hybrid, you mean?

Pigs also ended up mistaking a cattle fence as a minefield. Dumbfucks never recce well

 

[binayak95]

Dhanush is old name for LCH that was used in services before it was inducted as Prachand.


Check Su30MKI simulated dogfights, it heavily dominates. Theres a model in DCS which very closely resembles real life, estimated from airshows etc where they took it/its sister planes to the limit. Search SU-30 on Growling Sidewinder's channel, will find some good stuff.

Dude, Su30MKI does dominate, but woe unto you if you think the opponent cannot and will not overcome some how. Murphy's law holds always

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

I would not order anything in huge quantities with no serious record if I was spending my money on a new model even if its tested especially since our MIC is not totally proven....you can call it catch 22 but way to go would be to go for limited foot print in inducting these with criteria to move to phase 2 on an established timeline to make larger acquisitions. Ton's of problems show up in version 1 even with established players that have decades of MIC manufacturing not to mention support, maintenance and training and continuous roadmap....modern ones are even more notoriously buggy with all the software driven stuff.

We need a technical commission to oversee import substitutions on the likes of Yuri Borisov that can resist the sabotage from brass and lobbies, this is a process that will take a decade and half atleast even with intent

I do generally agree to this, but NAMICA and Nag have been in testing long enough for the kinks to have been worked out. More importantly, if you aren't sending the troops in NAMICA, you'll be sending them in this instead:-

Check Su30MKI simulated dogfights, it heavily dominates. Theres a model in DCS which very closely resembles real life, estimated from airshows etc where they took it/its sister planes to the limit. Search SU-30 on Growling Sidewinder's channel, will find some good stuff.

Spoiler: Su-30MKI dominating in DCS

Famous last words of the Pakistani pilot: "Oh.......look at that! Look at that nose! Wow! <orgasms>"

But DCS is not real life though. And even in this DCS video, you see a Su-30MKI get shot down by a Jf-17.

 

[Kuldeepm952]

Dhanush is old name for LCH that was used in services before it was inducted as Prachand.


Check Su30MKI simulated dogfights, it heavily dominates. Theres a model in DCS which very closely resembles real life, estimated from airshows etc where they took it/its sister planes to the limit. Search SU-30 on Growling Sidewinder's channel, will find some good stuff.

Yo, DCS is not the metric to compare things, that's a very slippery slope, how much is that simulated on real data is God known.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Dhanush is old name for LCH that was used in services before it was inducted as Prachand.


Check Su30MKI simulated dogfights, it heavily dominates. Theres a model in DCS which very closely resembles real life, estimated from airshows etc where they took it/its sister planes to the limit. Search SU-30 on Growling Sidewinder's channel, will find some good stuff.

MKI is good but its too heavy at this time and especially in the numbers we have and has its weaknesses as shown in Ukraine. For a country of our size with our threat profile mostly to west and north, medium class should be more than good enough in general and should be acquired in most numbers....instead if we get real bombers that would increase our capability spectrum lot more.

 

[omaebakabaka]

but NAMICA and Nag have been in testing long enough for the kinks to have been worked out.

Agreed, if we follow similar programs in a country that is not sustained by exports like Western MIC then its generally few years before new models get into active induction and even longer to reach a wide spread foot print. Normally this happens when its in third revision....in our case we import, so we should add bit more clarity and predictability to the process as it feels very adhoc and random in nature to tax payer.

No dedicated technical commission that actually brings together the whole thing from producers to end users as a whole yet across three branches with a consistent process. My experience in engineering side raises a lot of flags if I am going to replace operating mode, equipment and post replacement phases in one stroke. This rarely happens and almost all the time this happens in the form of pilot plants followed by less impactful plants and so on. Just too many processes need to come together without interrupting the normal business when you bring in new stuff.

 

[abingdonboy]

I think its a bit heavier compared to missiles like spike for its range

The spike that had serious issues in Indian conditions even identifying targets against clutter because of its seeker?

what’s this obsession with weight? A few KG more makes a system worthless to a force that is ordering 1000s of second gen wire controlled Milans and konkors?

man these loons deserve to have their butts whooped the next time the Chinese feel like teaching a lesson. They’ll happily fight with their 1970s junk whilst keeping all the IDDM stuff that is actually contemporary on the drawing boards or in trails

 

[abingdonboy]

Number is near 40.

What is your safe estimate? How many should we order?

DAC only cleared 25 NAMICA

IA needs enough so every IBG can have at least a couple of batteries plus independent regiments of NAMICA need to be deployed to the East. That’s gotta demand at least 150+

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

man these loons deserve to have their butts whooped the next time the Chinese feel like teaching a lesson. They’ll happily fight with their 1970s junk whilst keeping all the IDDM stuff that is actually contemporary on the drawing boards or in trails

The price in blood for that will be paid by the soldiers who have no say in procurement.

 

[mist_consecutive]

This option makes sense only if there are some minor concessions that the govt can brush under the carpet like the current buffer zone nonsense where they can deny stuff saying we were never there anyways. In such case things would stay pretty much the same as of now.

For modi to open his batua there would have to been a decent loss that we would have to face. In that case even 200 rafales would not be worth it as our policy makers would shut down the door of challenging china for the next 200 years or so which is not worth it.

The only reason GoI is acting parsimonious is that they think IAF is crying wolf. They think the requirements for MRCA are extravagant spending at best. When a reality check happens, such misunderstandings will shatter.
(I cannot really blame illiterate IAS babus for thinking such, even fanboys on this forum advocate for 500+ LCA completely missing the point of manufacturing capabilities and deadlines).

And for policymakers shutting the door, nope, that is never going to happen. It will only solidify our resolve to kick down China.

Acquisition of Gripen or F-16 would have killed the Tejas Mk2 program for good, might aswell curtailed the Tejas Mk1 at 40 units with no Tejas Mk1A being ordered.
Also, do you think the Gripen E and the F-16 Block 70/72 is going to come cheap, the Gripen-E costs $85 million unit cost, the F-16 Block 70/72 has a similar unit cost and given the past experience with ToT, it would merely be licensed production which would be what India would be doing.
Mirage 2000 was a better option, but UAE wasn't willing to sell any and we already have seen how expensive it is to upgrade the Mirage to IAF standards.
So, the Govt had no option other than to put all its faith and money into the Tejas Mk1 and Mk2.

I do not agree LCA program would have been killed. In fact, MMRCA would have given us a comfortable buffer time to develop Tejas and AMCA. Now delays in the Tejas program might mean a massive defeat and loss of territory for us.

Also, this argument about cost and how India cannot afford Rafale is bullshit. Indonesia and Egypt are not particularly shining stars of the economy, and they can afford it comfortably. This is just Indian baniya attitude of "Why buy 40 Lakh Skoda, when Maruti Suzuki comes at 8 Lakh" attitude.