DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[abingdonboy]

See, there are always mistakes and shortcomings to be pointed out. If you always lament about what is not happening and never celebrate what is happening, you become a copium addict, and copium addicts are always looking for anything depressing for the excuse of taking another sniff.



Yes, and this is likely to be followed up by more orders. This is just the LSP series. Also, good thing is private transport industry has shown interest in acquiring LUH.



I am very hopeful about LCH, and both Airforce and Army have shown strong commitment towards it. HAL has aggressively set up factories to produce LCH and it will likely to see larger orders in future.



HAL is yet to start production of 83 Mk1A, they even delayed in Mk1 numbers. Give some time to HAL for their supply chain to mature. Also, IAF has made it clear they are looking forward to LCA Mk2 as its backbone. It is pretty possible we will see follow-up orders of Mk1A in the coming years if IAF is satisfied with its performance.

Not really sure what your point is, celebrate what? Mediocrity? Whilst your adversary is building up at unprecedented rates these geniuses are ordering low single digit numbers of critically required equipment and leaving 60+ year old designs in service

everything with these guys is ‘maybe tomorrow’, what about today? Only when they get their backsides whooped do they wake up and then it’s a rush to import under emergency procurement powers

it’s not like buying toys in a store. These things have HUGE lead times and require massive capital if you want any kind of meaningful capacity. Do they want HAL/private sector to build decent capacity based on 6/10 unit orders?

if I’m being kind I’ll say they only know how to buy from abroad where foreign OEMs have already built up thanks to support from their domestic users, if I’m being cynical I’d say the best way to kill domestic products and keep the door open for imports is to make IDDM uncompetitive (both on cost and delivery timelines). Remember all the drama around the costs of the Arjun? There are multiple articles out there calling the Arjun the most expensive MBT in the world, well DRDO asked for a minimum order of 500 to localise production and cut unit cost in half.

These clowns ordered 124 units and then 1000s of T90s that are now being obliterated by rag tag militias in Ukraine. With users like this no wonder you don’t have world class MIC

 

[abingdonboy]

.

The problem is GoI is betting everything on Tejas (Mk1 & Mk2), but it is facing intermittent delays constantly. I see only by 2030 we will be in a comfortable position again. However this risky bet that we won't be fighting any large war in the next 8 years is likely to cost us dearly.

Sorry but I don’t think you’re paying attention then. Things are only going to get worse beyond 2030. The ONLY jets the IAF will induct between now and 2030 is a measly 83 LCA MK1A.

their fantasy of 114 MRFA is just that- a fantasy. And even IF it was going to happen would not deliver a single jet this decade (not even an RFP is out for MRFA as of today)

between today and 2030 all the MiG-21s will be out of service, the older Jags will start to go and the SU-30 fleet is largely outdated. From 2030 onward the M2Ks and MiG-29s will start to be phased out also. In response to this the IAF has HALVED their commitment to LCA MK.2 (now 6 SQNs vs 12 in 2018)

the next 15 years are going to be very grim for the IAF but their generals are living in la la land thinking all is well because….MRFA

 

[Johny_Baba]

BTW Indian Air Force initially wasn't even in favour of inducting Mirage-2000, no joke
When porkies got their F-16 A/B IAF asked for equally potent fighter jet that could rival PAF's american jets; Dassault came and offered Mirage-2000 but instead of proposing its ability as a fighter they did wrong kind of marketing here by presenting it as a ;strike aircraft-cum-fighter; and IAF was already newly inducting those Jaguars back then when it was offered so they thought why bother with another strike aircraft.
Finally Mirage-2000 was done as a Government-2-Government deal with MoD (led by then Govt) mostly sidelining whatever IAF wanted to say - but goddamn we got duped by this deal in a way that Dassault didn't cover weapons in the deal citing how missiles and bombs for Mirage-2000 are made by a different company and indian govt would have to deal with them separately for that. BUT JUST 5-6 MONTHS BEFORE INDIAN GOVT SIGNING THAT DEAL THEY SOLD SIMILAR AMOUNT OF MIRAGE-2000 TO GREECE AND IN THAT DEAL WEAPONS WERE COVERED; ALL THESE FOR LESSER PRICE THAN WHAT WE HAD TO PAY!

Nevertheless IAF did receive those Mirage-2000 here and started working on its induction (by building air conditioned shelters that were not so required for other russian jets they were used to operate etc, since this ;sophisticated; Mirage-2000 came with quite a lot of computerised stuff in it and required proper cooling for proper functioning of the jet), around same time LTTE matter was also picking up heat...
and there was some moment where IAF was ordered to escort-protect a certain cargo plane to Sri Lanka but in name of weapons it had nothing on its pylon; just a set of two 30mm DEFA cannons! - simply because even after induction Govt wasn't able to get those weapons delivered for them - which is said to have arrived here in 1989.

so since its induction here in 1985 to 1989 (and even add some more years for laser guided bombs and stuff-which suffered problem of US Embargo) we couldn't effectively use those Mirage-2000 here; it could've affected us a lot in case another war had happened with dem porkies.

So anyway, those were the kind of era when Mirage-2000 despite being a potent fighter jet and so-was just not working out as expected-intended for us due to these sort of realities; and probably it played a big role in IAF as well as the Govt rejecting French offer for Assembly Line of Mirage-2000 here

Some additional Info,
> the first time then govt 'proposed' to purchase Mirage-2000 was in april 1980 via then defense secretory K. P. A Menon
> IAF Marshalls and Officers in that meeting replied that their budget was already tight and it would be extremely difficult to purchase such expensive jets under such scenario
> Yet, SOMEHOW then govt was adamant for this deal, so much that they alloted separate funds for this
> weapons that we got with the deal consisted MATRA R.530, Magic-R.550, MATRA Super 530D (do note that this version of the missile wasn't even ready for Mirage-2000 back then it was going through development-testing-induction etc stages and all of it was finally done in 1988 about 3 years later we received all of first batch of Mirage-2000 here!!) and BLG-66 Belouga Cluster Bomb - all of these was being made by MATRA
> SOMEHOW this same Dassault and MATRA that previously agreed to partener with the Greeks for their order of 36 jets for Hellenic Air Force decided to refuse to come together for jets meant for IAF under this Indian deal - and Dassault insisted that we go through a separate deal with MATRA because back then those jets were only compatible with weapons made by them (and likewise even we didn't have much french weapons in our then aerial arsenal that could possibly be used on these newer jets) - and we had to pay additional some 300 Crores to MATRA for just weapons!! Each MATRA-R.530 costed us 10 Lakh back then and Each Magic-R.550 costed 25 Lakh and dunno what we paid for those Cluster Bombs; but certain report of IAF that evaluated prices we paid with the Greek order noted it that WE PAID ABOUT 50 PERCENT MORE PRICE OF THE WEAPONS TO MATRA BECAUSE OF THIS DELIBERATE ;BHAAGIDAARI; BETWEEN THEM AND ARM-TWISTING THEY DID TO US
> Notably, even other customers of Mirage-2000 faced some bakchodi with their orders, for e.g. UAE additionally asked for italian made avionics as well as integration of certain american missiles which was agreed by Dassault; but the jets they received weren't compatible with non-MATRA weaponry - and they filed a case in courts against this breach of contract; likewise Egypt also faced certain bakchodi with their order of 20 some ets and became so annoyed that they literally sent a delivery batch back to France

So, yeah...Mirage-2000 deal wasn't all goody goody thing as it involved certain kind of monetary leeching done by the French; and even after getting it all we further faced various issues due to US Embargo and related things. It was perhaps our first introduction to then emerging modern tech from western side like Fly-By-Wire system plus computerised avionics, and laser guided missiles etc; plus the jet itself was quite versatile so that way it was super useful - but wish the French hadn't done such kind of leeching with this deal...perhaps they would've benefitted by getting additional orders and what not and we could've gotten proper newer jets to supplement-replace older ones in time

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Nah, 30 km is short range. Same as Akash Mk1 and Chinese HQ-16A. Heck even the QRSAM has a 30km range and much shorter emplacement, decampment and reaction times. 20 km altitude is something Akash Mk1 has as well.
MRSAM of IAF and IA is Barak-8 with 70km range.
Radars having longer range is a norm.

If its just 30km, what is the Akash NG then trying to achieve? Just a larger NEZ due to dual pulse propulsion and other radar upgrades?

From launcher pics, atleast one thing is that per launcher it has 2x missiles of akash. Possibly compact version of the missile with upgrades in seeker and software IG.

 

[karn]

Nah, 30 km is short range. Same as Akash Mk1 and Chinese HQ-16A. Heck even the QRSAM has a 30km range and much shorter emplacement, decampment and reaction times. 20 km altitude is something Akash Mk1 has as well.
MRSAM of IAF and IA is Barak-8 with 70km range.
Radars having longer range is a norm.

If its just 30km, what is the Akash NG then trying to achieve? Just a larger NEZ due to dual pulse propulsion and other radar upgrades?

What happened to the claims that this missile has a 45 km or higher range.
Perhaps this is again a due to a difference in the way range is calculated. Cause this having the same range as the qr Sam is plain weird.
With regards to its comparison to old school akash .. the flame from the exhaust is much smaller than the akash 1 .. there is definitely an upgrade to the rocket motor.

 

[jai jaganath]

Sorry but I don’t think you’re paying attention then. Things are only going to get worse beyond 2030. The ONLY jets the IAF will induct between now and 2030 is a measly 83 LCA MK1A.

their fantasy of 114 MRFA is just that- a fantasy. And even IF it was going to happen would not deliver a single jet this decade (not even an RFP is out for MRFA as of today)

between today and 2030 all the MiG-21s will be out of service, the older Jags will start to go and the SU-30 fleet is largely outdated. From 2030 onward the M2Ks and MiG-29s will start to be phased out also. In response to this the IAF has HALVED their commitment to LCA MK.2 (now 6 SQNs vs 12 in 2018)

the next 15 years are going to be very grim for the IAF but their generals are living in la la land thinking all is well because….MRFA

Situation seems very very severe
I mean just inducting 83 jets from 2022 to 2030 is really pathetic and dangerous
Whereas our rivals are piling up jets
Hope iaf has some plans to counter it bcoz no one can be that fool of ignoring this threat

 

[Fatalis]

One interesting which I observed that may or may not be true is that the canister which stores the VL-SRSAM is not inserted inside the vertical launcher instead the canister itself becomes the part of the vertical launching system. If you take out the canister then there will be only empty space.

So, I can assume that VLS of VL-SRSAM is actually an empty cage containing 8 launchers joined with a common exhaust duct.

Hope, I made sense.

 

[Arihant Roy]

After our nuclear test, we were heavily sanctioned by the west, and that included sanctions on spare parts for western aircraft and helicopters. Meanwhile, Russian equipment during that time was pretty decent (cold-war era).

Su-30 series was undoubtedly the most potent multirole fighter during that time, along with F-15s. Even till the early last decade (2010-14), Su-30 MKI was unmatched in South-East Asia. But with evolving technology, you need to continuously upgrade your fleet. IAF failed that, partly due to Russian leverage and inflexibility to allow us to upgrade the MKI fleet.

In fact, it is still a pretty decent platform, a solid 4th gen fighter. Paired with long-range BVRs, a powerful radar, and an Israeli-EW system, it can comfortably take on any 4th gen. western jet, barring 4.5 gen. jets or above (Rafale, Typhoon, etc.).

You are a bit mistaken regarding the Su-30 MKI. Our Sukhois have been subjected to incremental upgrades of various systems over the years which has helped it to stay a step ahead of our potential adversaries.

The indigenous mission computer has been upgraded a no of times. It now has more processing power . The original N011M Bars have been thoroughly upgraded. The digital signal processors which originally replaced the Ts200 have now been replaced with new ones. The radar comp is completely new. Newer higher power rated TwT have replaced the original Chelnok ones.

If you think Bars has a 130 km range against a 3sqm target, then you are seriously mistaken.

The original Tarang mk2 has been replaced with mk3 which will soon be replaced with Dhruti RWR. Then Project Eagle eye has been implemented in which the no of RWR antenna have been increased to 6 from the earlier 4 to give a masf free 360 degree coverage.

Very soon an improved variant of the CASDIC D-29 suite will be installed on board the MKI. This is an internal RF jamming suite which is separate from the SAP-518 and the CASDIC ASPJ now being developed.


With Astra mk2, a MKI will be able to hold its own again Rafale , Eurofighter Typhoon and any other 4.5 gen jets. In BVR, it may struggle a bit but it can very well deny airspace to these 4.5 jets with aesa. In a close on dogfight, well MKIs would wreck havoc on any 4.5 jet barring the vanilla MiG-29.

After getting an Uttam aesa with around 1500 TRM , MKIs will rule the airspace.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

You are a bit mistaken regarding the Su-30 MKI. Our Sukhois have been subjected to incremental upgrades of various systems over the years which has helped it to stay a step ahead of our potential adversaries.

The indigenous mission computer has been upgraded a no of times. It now has more processing power . The original N011M Bars have been thoroughly upgraded. The digital signal processors which originally replaced the Ts200 have now been replaced with new ones. The radar comp is completely new. Newer higher power rated TwT have replaced the original Chelnok ones.

If you think Bars has a 130 km range against a 3sqm target, then you are seriously mistaken.

The original Tarang mk2 has been replaced with mk3 which will soon be replaced with Dhruti RWR. Then Project Eagle eye has been implemented in which the no of RWR antenna have been increased to 6 from the earlier 4 to give a masf free 360 degree coverage.

Very soon an improved variant of the CASDIC D-29 suite will be installed on board the MKI. This is an internal RF jamming suite which is separate from the SAP-518 and the CASDIC ASPJ now being developed.


With Astra mk2, a MKI will be able to hold its own again Rafale , Eurofighter Typhoon and any other 4.5 gen jets. In BVR, it may struggle a bit but it can very well deny airspace to these 4.5 jets with aesa. In a close on dogfight, well MKIs would wreck havoc on any 4.5 jet barring the vanilla MiG-29.

After getting an Uttam aesa with around 1500 TRM , MKIs will rule the airspace.

Don't forget the most important upgrade: The radio of the data link, from that fail HAL radio to now the AstraMicrowave/Rafael JV's BNET AR software defined radio.

 

[jai jaganath]

You are a bit mistaken regarding the Su-30 MKI. Our Sukhois have been subjected to incremental upgrades of various systems over the years which has helped it to stay a step ahead of our potential adversaries.

The indigenous mission computer has been upgraded a no of times. It now has more processing power . The original N011M Bars have been thoroughly upgraded. The digital signal processors which originally replaced the Ts200 have now been replaced with new ones. The radar comp is completely new. Newer higher power rated TwT have replaced the original Chelnok ones.

If you think Bars has a 130 km range against a 3sqm target, then you are seriously mistaken.

The original Tarang mk2 has been replaced with mk3 which will soon be replaced with Dhruti RWR. Then Project Eagle eye has been implemented in which the no of RWR antenna have been increased to 6 from the earlier 4 to give a masf free 360 degree coverage.

Very soon an improved variant of the CASDIC D-29 suite will be installed on board the MKI. This is an internal RF jamming suite which is separate from the SAP-518 and the CASDIC ASPJ now being developed.


With Astra mk2, a MKI will be able to hold its own again Rafale , Eurofighter Typhoon and any other 4.5 gen jets. In BVR, it may struggle a bit but it can very well deny airspace to these 4.5 jets with aesa. In a close on dogfight, well MKIs would wreck havoc on any 4.5 jet barring the vanilla MiG-29.

After getting an Uttam aesa with around 1500 TRM , MKIs will rule the airspace.

What about dcmaws
Sirji

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

What about dcmaws
Sirji

Ur back

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

What about dcmaws
Sirji

He is only listing upgrades that have already happened. DCMAWS was still under development testing until very recently. That upgrade hasn't started yet.

 

[jai jaganath]

Ur back

Yeah bro
After a tragic break as defexpo was going on but banned but was viewing dfi for defexpo only

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Yeah bro
After a tragic break as defexpo was going on but banned but was viewing dfi for defexpo only

Hope u got caught up with most of news

 

[jai jaganath]

Hope u got caught up with most of news

Yeah somewhat

 

[samsaptaka]

LCH getting a new name?? What it might be ??

Mi25 is 'Akbar' ! So not only are our armed forces colonized in the europian coloniality but also middle eastern coloniality (to para phrase JSD) ....our porkie neighbours would be laughing their assess off.

 

[Tiwariji]

Mi25 is 'Akbar' ! So not only are our armed forces colonized in the europian coloniality but also middle eastern coloniality (to para phrase JSD) ....our porkie neighbours would be laughing their assess off.

Why do we name someone else kid . We can name our kid . This thing i cnt understand . May be its a operational requirement or something ?

 

[samsaptaka]

He also mentions 'Dhanush' in quotes, is that an ATGM ?

 

[binayak95]

You are a bit mistaken regarding the Su-30 MKI. Our Sukhois have been subjected to incremental upgrades of various systems over the years which has helped it to stay a step ahead of our potential adversaries.

The indigenous mission computer has been upgraded a no of times. It now has more processing power . The original N011M Bars have been thoroughly upgraded. The digital signal processors which originally replaced the Ts200 have now been replaced with new ones. The radar comp is completely new. Newer higher power rated TwT have replaced the original Chelnok ones.

If you think Bars has a 130 km range against a 3sqm target, then you are seriously mistaken.

The original Tarang mk2 has been replaced with mk3 which will soon be replaced with Dhruti RWR. Then Project Eagle eye has been implemented in which the no of RWR antenna have been increased to 6 from the earlier 4 to give a masf free 360 degree coverage.

Very soon an improved variant of the CASDIC D-29 suite will be installed on board the MKI. This is an internal RF jamming suite which is separate from the SAP-518 and the CASDIC ASPJ now being developed.


With Astra mk2, a MKI will be able to hold its own again Rafale , Eurofighter Typhoon and any other 4.5 gen jets. In BVR, it may struggle a bit but it can very well deny airspace to these 4.5 jets with aesa. In a close on dogfight, well MKIs would wreck havoc on any 4.5 jet barring the vanilla MiG-29.

After getting an Uttam aesa with around 1500 TRM , MKIs will rule the airspace.

in a close in dogfight, its hard to say who will dominate - air combat is never one on one, and rarely if ever is it predictable.
The Su30MKI is certainly dominant - but its not a given.

 

[samsaptaka]

Who's gonna use these infantry?

First time I am hearing about this ASMI machine pistol thingy. Any pix of the same ?