DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Super Flanker]

Cross-posting from the AMCA thread.
"DRDO has started the development of an air-to-air refueling probe for AMCA. The probe will be retractable."

Spoiler

Personally, I always expected AMCA to have a retractable refueling probe because being a Stealth fighter, a fixed refueling probe would have greatly increased the RCS of AMCA, at same time it would have increased the drag on the airframe too, therefore it made complete sense to go for retractable option.

If we look at other examples of stealth fighters like J-20, Su-57, F-35, F-22 etc, then we will see that they all have retractable refueling probe. Same will happen on AMCA too.

 

[BABAJI321]

Is this already posted.... PDs of tejas mk2 and AMCA checking out/taking notes of Eurofighter Typhoon.
Looks like scientists from DRDO and ADA...

 

[binayak95]

AK 630's feed mechanism is tall af. The unit stands 13-15 feet tall. And OFB doesnt have the brains to translate that into a modified BMP Chassis.

Few years back they showcased the AK-630 on a truck. What is stopping them from putting the AK-630 on BMP-2 chassis and make it more mobile.

Also, cant we just make our own SPAAG by using the L-70 gun along with 2-4 VSHORADS and using the chassis of either BMP-2 or Abhay?

 

[binayak95]

Binayak95 ji on which ships you have served?

Han han. publicly bataun mai. Paagal hai kya

 

[Fatalis]

I really liked the concept of Korkut. I wish we could have done something similar. Hope in future we can have our own SPAAG.

 

[Love Charger]

Han han. publicly bataun mai. Paagal hai kya

Koi Baat nai sirji mat bataiye publicly

 

[Arihant Roy]

I thought both the guns: medak and AK-630 might be having similar footprint. The concept of AK-630 as CRAM is indeed very good for border outposts.

If we are able to put 2-4 VSHORADS on Mahindra ASLV or BMP-2 then it will be a good replacement for the Strela system.

Well it's a good concept but only if you have zillion rounds of ammunition and you have deep pockets . Only USA used the phalanx in a C-RAM role in Iraq.

Gatling guns as you know have a very high fire rate and burn through ammunition very quickly. The no of rounds needed to shoot down a rocket round or a suicide killer drone of the Geran-2 class is quite high.

The best soln is a 30 to 40 mm cannon, (higher 57 mm stuff like the AU220M would also suffice ) with programmable airburts ammunition is the best and. If Ukraine had such a system protecting it's VA / VP, then the no of Shahed -136 interceptions would have been very high. Ignore their MoD 's statement of shooting down some 220 ish drones.

Drones like Shahed 136 travel at a max of 300-350 km and are very easy to shoot down provided you can detect and track it from 10 kms away. Their slow speeds provide lots of reaction time and gives you ample time to fire a second salvo if the first fails to take the drones down.

For heavy mlrs rounds , best option is to have a Tamir type cheap interceptor. As Israel is doing with its Iron some system. Each launcher has 40 missiles which provides you good magazine depth and the radar which is a EL/M-2084, analyses the incoming trajectory, calculates the impact points and only intercepts those rounds which are about to hit the protected area. It's an excellent system. Last time when things flared up with Hezbollah, Iron dome had around 410+ interceptions.

In our case, we will be broke if we are to install C-RAM systems in every major settlement and army forward garrisons , ammo and POL dumps. The best way to prevent or mitigate them is to have guided mortar or arty shells which will precisely take out the Paki mortar and field gun emplacements which are firing on us. For these we would be needing large nos of Swathi but then this option is cheaper than having some C-RAM system or an existing air defense system or Shorads being used in an ad hoc C ram role.

 

[Chinmoy]

By the way with all the integrated / modular construction what has been the improvement in the construction timelines(from laying down to commissioning) can anyone answer?????

If you look at the timeline difference of P-17 and P-17A, from keel laying to launch, the period is near about same of 2 years. But the real difference is in commissioning. While in P-17, time difference from launch to commission is about 7 years, it has come down to 2 years in case of P-17A.

 

[Chinmoy]

Mortar round ?

No. 81 mm Smoke Grenade.

This is the product.

 

[DumbPilot]

Cross-posting from the AMCA thread.
"DRDO has started the development of an air-to-air refueling probe for AMCA. The probe will be retractable."

Spoiler

Personally, I always expected AMCA to have a retractable refueling probe because being a Stealth fighter, a fixed refueling probe would have greatly increased the RCS of AMCA, at same time it would have increased the drag on the airframe too, therefore it made complete sense to go for retractable option.

If we look at other examples of stealth fighters like J-20, Su-57, F-35, F-22 etc, then we will see that they all have retractable refueling probe. Same will happen on AMCA too.

I guess they will do a refueling probe like the F-35C:

But I wonder why not a refueling receptacle, sounds like a bit less work: hatch mechanism, and then a pressure fed line connecting the incoming fuel to be really basic in description

 

[Chinmoy]

I guess they will do a refueling probe like the F-35C:
View attachment 178833

But I wonder why not a refueling receptacle, sounds like a bit less work: hatch mechanism, and then a pressure fed line connecting the incoming fuel to be really basic in description
View attachment 178832

Probe-and-drogue setup gives you the flexibility of buddy refuelling.

Moreover its more simple then flying boom one with option of multiple refueling at same time.

 

[mist_consecutive]

I guess they will do a refueling probe like the F-35C:
View attachment 178833

But I wonder why not a refueling receptacle, sounds like a bit less work: hatch mechanism, and then a pressure fed line connecting the incoming fuel to be really basic in description
View attachment 178832

Watch this, you will understand the downsides of the flying boom method. No other force except for USAF uses this. Even USN uses the Probe and Drogue method.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Well it's a good concept but only if you have zillion rounds of ammunition and you have deep pockets . Only USA used the phalanx in a C-RAM role in Iraq.

Gatling guns as you know have a very high fire rate and burn through ammunition very quickly. The no of rounds needed to shoot down a rocket round or a suicide killer drone of the Geran-2 class is quite high.

The best soln is a 30 to 40 mm cannon, (higher 57 mm stuff like the AU220M would also suffice ) with programmable airburts ammunition is the best and. If Ukraine had such a system protecting it's VA / VP, then the no of Shahed -136 interceptions would have been very high. Ignore their MoD 's statement of shooting down some 220 ish drones.

Drones like Shahed 136 travel at a max of 300-350 km and are very easy to shoot down provided you can detect and track it from 10 kms away. Their slow speeds provide lots of reaction time and gives you ample time to fire a second salvo if the first fails to take the drones down.

For heavy mlrs rounds , best option is to have a Tamir type cheap interceptor. As Israel is doing with its Iron some system. Each launcher has 40 missiles which provides you good magazine depth and the radar which is a EL/M-2084, analyses the incoming trajectory, calculates the impact points and only intercepts those rounds which are about to hit the protected area. It's an excellent system. Last time when things flared up with Hezbollah, Iron dome had around 410+ interceptions.

In our case, we will be broke if we are to install C-RAM systems in every major settlement and army forward garrisons , ammo and POL dumps. The best way to prevent or mitigate them is to have guided mortar or arty shells which will precisely take out the Paki mortar and field gun emplacements which are firing on us. For these we would be needing large nos of Swathi but then this option is cheaper than having some C-RAM system or an existing air defense system or Shorads being used in an ad hoc C ram role.

Israel is a bad example for India as they are supported financially and materially and immune to any criticism by the west in entirety even above their own populations whether its US or Europe. There is nothing cheap in what Israel does or its solutions, bad direction to look at and fig out a scalable solution. CRAM does not work against lone wolf attacks, decimating a village for a village will do wonders. OFB may be talentless but if what they did is simple enough and easily mounted on any sort of truck and low cost than ak-630 then it should be fine

 

[Blademaster]

I have sat in CIC rooms and watched with awe as SM6s intercepted ship launched Brahmos and air dropped harpoons in real time. My arguments are weak it seems. lets not waste time, eh - no one but the chinese are wasting time with Anti carrier BMs, and leave it at that

When did US ever intercepted Brahmos? IIRC there were no Brahmos fired in exercises with US naval forces.

 

[Super Flanker]

I guess they will do a refueling probe like the F-35C:
View attachment 178833

But I wonder why not a refueling receptacle, sounds like a bit less work: hatch mechanism, and then a pressure fed line connecting the incoming fuel to be really basic in description
View attachment 178832

AMCA will most probably have "probe & Drogue" air-to-air refueling. Chances of "FLYABLE-BOOM" style aerial refueling is next to none.

Also look at our current fleet of aerial Refuelers, we operate six Ilyushin Il-78MKIs in aerial refueling (tanker) role and all of these are compatible with only the "Probe & Drogue" type refueling. In probe & drogue refueling, you can refuel multiple aircraft at one time and you also have the option of buddy refueling too. The advantages of probe & drogue outweigh that of "flyable-boom" style.

 

[ShukantC]

The new promo for the CATS system released clearly shows a larger variant of the CATS warrior under development.

When queried this on the tweet, even received a like from HVT sir. Food for thought don't you think...

 

[abingdonboy]

I am surprised nobody is talking about today's biggest news


Seems like people's job of bashing IAF will no longer be valid.

6 LUH ordered vs requirement for 200++
10 LCH vs requirement for >65
83 LCA MK1A despite depleting squadron strength and them fantasising over their MRFA dream

LCA MK.2 commitment cut in half from 12 to 6 squadrons

but sure, other than that IAF are doing a top notch job

 

[abingdonboy]

They are shush on the numbers ordered but that make sense.

I think last year around 27 were ordered. This time they might have repeated the same numbers. One source was quoting 45 for IA and 27 for UNPKO but I doubt if these are the actual numbers.

From my observation, IA has divided the vehicles in 3 categories:

QRFV-Light = Mahindra ASLV (1300 ordered, not sure if any delivered or not)
QRFV-Medium = Tata QRFV (24* in-service, not sure how many ordered)
QRFV-Heavy = Bharat Forge M4 (09* in service, not sure how many ordered)

After this, comes new RFIs which ask for:
1. 800 LAMV
2. 1200 Protected Mobility Vehicle - 500 High Altitude + 700 Standard

Both of these categories are also mentioned in 4th indigenization list.

Why are they being so shady about numbers for simple MRAPs? These aren’t SSBN

27 was what was cleared by DAC, now we hear about 45 and then 60 being in service. So the system can work when it wants to, why is the WhAP/IMPV/Kestral still yet to get serious orders then?

at the end of the day M4 is just another screwdriver job, why can’t IDDM ever get this kind of treatment?

 

[Aditya Ballal]

'Global interest in India-modified M4' — South African defence firm wants to manufacture in India

Paramount Group in talks with India's Kalyani Group to expand operations as many countries have expressed interest in India-specific modified M4 vehicles, the most capable variant.

theprint.in

As per the Print, Kalyani has indigenised the Kalyani M4 to a level of about 95%. Don’t know on what metric though.

 

[flanker99]

'Global interest in India-modified M4' — South African defence firm wants to manufacture in India

Paramount Group in talks with India's Kalyani Group to expand operations as many countries have expressed interest in India-specific modified M4 vehicles, the most capable variant.

theprint.in

As per the Print, Kalyani has indigenised the Kalyani M4 to a level of about 95%. Don’t know on what metric though.

Likely they bought the whole manufacturing plant and set it up in here like they did with their artillery plant.
However 95% seems like exaggeration