DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

thebakofbakchod

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Without orders nothing is going to happen. Tonbo had the see through armour since 2016 how many have been ordered till date. Bharat Forge how many orders have they got for the variety of guns. Bhooke pet bhajan na hoye
Tonbo is just screwdrivering chinese or other asian imported components together. They themselves admit to outsourcing production to contract manufacturers. Conveniently wont tell who they are outsourcing to and where they are getting these components from.
 

Aniruddha Mulay

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Tonbo is just screwdrivering chinese or other asian imported components together. They themselves admit to outsourcing production to contract manufacturers. Conveniently wont tell who they are outsourcing to and where they are getting these components from.
How can you be so sure of that??
You got any source??
Every company in the world has a few components imported from China, that does not mean the entire system is Chinese.
 

Suryavanshi

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Conveniently wont tell who they are outsourcing to and where they are getting these components from.
Any of these.

Excelitas Technologies
Nippon Ceramic
Hamamatsu Photonic
Murata Manufacturing
Flir Systems
Texas Instruments
Sofradir
Infra TEC GmbH
DRS
Zhejiang Dali
IRay Technology
North GuangWei
 

ezsasa

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Adani has yet to show something in terms of investing in R&D. Adani is growing horizontally(by aquisitions). So did Mahindra(remember Gipps Aeropspace?) How much he shall sustain or he will nurture -Only time will tell. Our style of micro management with penny pinching does not do wonders for r&d. (Kalyani,L&T, small but niche tech companies like TONBO,ASTRA are few glimmers of hope)
one clear differentiator that is emerging is that when founders of company have engineering bent of mind, they get into R&D, by engieering bent of mind means they have been around machines and shopfloor at the beginning of their careers. if we use this premise, adani need not get into R&D, they will fail.

mahindra is a second generation engineering company, it's original name was mahindra & mohammed. mohammed went to pakistan during partition, mahindra stayed in India.

SSS defence is also based on their prior engineering background, but DFI had been too critical of them in the past. hopefully atleast now members who have been critical of them understand the complexities of engineering R&D, for someone to risk getting into defence engineering is a big step and needs to appreciated.
 

ezsasa

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Tonbo is just screwdrivering chinese or other asian imported components together. They themselves admit to outsourcing production to contract manufacturers. Conveniently wont tell who they are outsourcing to and where they are getting these components from.
even if this is true, why should it be held against them.
they have a right to try and maximise their topline. when component ecosystem is ready in India , they can always shift to local suppliers.
 

mokoman

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Tonbo is just screwdrivering chinese or other asian imported components together. They themselves admit to outsourcing production to contract manufacturers. Conveniently wont tell who they are outsourcing to and where they are getting these components from.
they design their own stuff , including video boards + their usual optics and thermal imagers and what not . doesnt look like simple screwdrivergiri

u cant expect them to fabricate chips and camera sensors by themselves .
 

ezsasa

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AnantS

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Adani is a trader. He buys existing technology and product from other countries and sells them in India.
Nothing wrong with this approach.
Srinie said:
Without orders nothing is going to happen. Tonbo had the see through armour since 2016 how many have been ordered till date. Bharat Forge how many orders have they got for the variety of guns. Bhooke pet bhajan na hoye
I am not against any approach. I am saying none of conglomerates have patience to understand what requires for R&D. Nor experience to find out right set of persons to man R&D and giving them operational freedom to achieve a Vision.

Buying existing technology and selling to India - is nothing more than privatized ToT(What otherwise PSU did for decades). Its good for skill building. Getting to know what it requires for defense manufacturing. But thats all. Real fun start when you start to invest in product. Mature it patiently. Somebody mentioned TONBO is only assembling. TONBO waited 6 years for orders. .... Until unless you have consistent Large Orders, you dont build complete ecosystem. You use what sub COTS are available locally rest import. TONBO is a good example. They researched their products, licensed required IP's , Designed their own product and productionized it. Such a small company yet it knew any new product is not readily gobbled up by Market especially defense that too Indian. they did not sit and wait - they started selling outside India - whoever required(e.g. US Army). Thats how it works.

Sometimes even to establish a product you cut copy paste from existing products to build working prototypes. SSS defence comes to mind. But then This is not unheard of. I dont know how many remember Home grown fibre Glass car Dolphin/Montana by Sipani Automobiles? That car was amalgam of UK Reliant Kitten Design and Maruti/home grown parts. Sipani is forfather of Reva which taken over by Mahindra. Thats just one example.

Even If a company manages to buy a really good Tech company outside - the laws are so strict that it takes years(if it goes through) to get technology flowing down to India(Host Legal Laws). Case in Tata motors and LR Jaguar, Mahindra and SsangYong.

Now take case of Kalyani. They bought lock stock barrel Barrel Casting from Europe(Sweden). Low recoil technology from an American company called mandus. Yet they had their own independent R&D to spn off there own Guns as well as support ATAGS program. Kalyani had to almost wait for nearly decade and change of govt for these plans to be implemented.

As @ezsasa said - You need entrepreneurial as well scientific & engineering bent of mind to lead such organizations(0like Baba Kalyani). Or somebody Like Rajeev Bajaj who gives freedom to teams to innovate and crack the market(Read how Bajaj shifted from scooters to motorcycles, how Rajeev built his team - faced doubts from his father over change of track).

Mere hiring acquisitions in hope of winning Armed forces contract - and dumping off - if you dont win contract - really doesnt foster R&D spirit. You shall end up with waste of resources like Pipavav Yards.
 
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Suryavanshi

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TONBO does use lots of off the shelf stuffs, they have said it openly. Helps them to keeps the costs under control. What's important is the op, they own the ip, suppliers can change.
I don't know why the fellas here are talking down on Tonbo, achee chese hazam nahi hoti sayad.
On one hand they don't get proper orders, if they do get orders their payment gets held out by MoD ke Collector Saab. What do you want them to manufacture their own bolometer, circuit, microprocessor, lenses?
Even Lockhead does not manufacture all it's component.

Kaun lodu ye argument start kiya
 

ShukantC

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Honestly while watching this video I thought it is a good effort but it is a bit too late, developing and producing this UAV will at least take us 5-7 years and we need it NOW, I would honestly prefer if adopt the Heron TP in numbers. It has the endurance , loiter time , sufficiently large payload and most importantly it is ready NOW.

The Tapas UAV can serve our recon needs and the Heron TP can takeover the armed drone role for the armed forces.

The ADE on the other hand should focus on developing a stealthy turbofan powered HALE drone on the line of the general atomics Avenger(pic below) which will be relevant in the future and also because frankly there aren't many options in the world market and its cost prohibitive if we try buying it from USA.

I believe our developmental experience and the building blocks created with the Tapas UAV program and our other projects in the works should give us enough confidence to undertake this project


162bb18e30925fcfaef3319e153d9cfe.jpg
 

omaebakabaka

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CIWS and ejection seats are very different from each other though. Ejection seats have a high learning curve and are a niche technology. CIWS is technologically a lower hanging fruit and, like I mentioned, will be used also in C-RAM and MANPADS. And will be produced in the thousands and given the drone hysteria, can also be sold abroad as potent anti-drone system to even countries without large military budgets.
Agree with your larger point that higher priority should be given to strategic systems. But that has already been happening. Cases where it doesn't happen (transport aircraft, aero-engines, fabs and photolithography, etc), the capital investment is too damn high.Otherwise all strategic projects are funded.
I think metallurgy will play a key role along with cooling and few other things.
 

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