DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[SavageKing456]

1) We don't know that yet
2)It will be used for Ghatak UCAV
3)Ganga is proposal by GTRE using the same Kabini core used in Kaveri, this proposal was from early 2010
4) No it's not , but as far as if learning from Kaveri will be used in110KN engine, we don't know yet
5) My guess is that Cold section i.e Intake Fan, LP& HP compressors will be based on the knowledge gained from Kaveri, HP& LP turbine & AB may be based on M-88.

Can't kaveri be used for tejas if we reduce it's weight and increase thrust upto current tejas engine I'm talking about tejas mk1

 

[India Super Power]

Can't kaveri be used for tejas if we reduce it's weight and increase thrust upto current tejas engine I'm talking about tejas mk1

Same question can't it be done in mid life refit

 

[IndianHawk]

Can't kaveri be used for tejas if we reduce it's weight and increase thrust upto current tejas engine I'm talking about tejas mk1

I don't think they are working in this direction. They would rather put money and effort for next gen engines.

 

[Vamsi]

Can't kaveri be used for tejas if we reduce it's weight and increase thrust upto current tejas engine I'm talking about tejas mk1

It can be done. But let's first wait for the dry version. But I'm confident that Kaveri with AB will come if Air Force want it for MLU

 

[IndianHawk]

It will be WASTE if we are going to develop the Hot section based on M-88 core & paying royalties to french & not utilising the experience gained in developing SCBs & TBCs for Kaveri. All the efforts that we had put in developing SCBs and TBCs will go into drain.

How?? SCB and TBC are components and processes. Which means we can keep evolving them generation wise. French help will only be required where we failed . Our success will most definitely be utilised to reduce french IP and to reduce royalty cost.

Btw we already make Shakti engine for our helicopters with French which is a pretty successful venture.

 

[Vamsi]

How?? SCB and TBC are components and processes. Which means we can keep evolving them generation wise. French help will only be required where we failed . Our success will most definitely be utilised to reduce french IP and to reduce royalty cost.

Btw we already make Shakti engine for our helicopters with French which is a pretty successful venture.

But we are paying royalties for Shakti engine and let me tell you what gonna happen for 110 KN engine and save this if you want . But I really wish I am wrong here

French will develop a shiny new engine using next gen technologies using our money and in return we will co-develop a engine using old M-88 based tech and still we will pay royalties for each & every engine we make here and claim that it is indigenous just like how Porks claim Blunder is theirs . Only thing Indian in that engine will be the name plate & probably the cold section.This is what gonna happen.

 

[Vamsi]

How?? SCB and TBC are components and processes.

Because the new engine most probably will be based on M-88 tech , which means the SCBs and TBCs for new engine will also be based on that of French SCBs& TBCs, not ours

 

[India Super Power]

@Vamsi sir, so you mean whatever we built for kaveri is useless bcoz it won't be used at all

 

[Super Flanker]

But we are paying royalties for Shakti engine and let me tell you what gonna happen for 110 KN engine and save this if you want . But I really wish I am wrong here

French will develop a shiny new engine using next gen technologies using our money and in return we will co-develop a engine using old M-88 based tech and still we will pay royalties for each & every engine we make here and claim that it is indigenous just like how Porks claim Blunder is theirs . Only thing Indian in that engine will be the name plate & probably the cold section.This is what gonna happen.

I totally agree with you have written up here mate. The French are obviously not going to give us the Core Technology for the jet engines. In my Its better if we go for RR(Rolls Royce)
Jet engine Technology is something that not many countries in the World have been Able to Successfully master. The French will obviously not just give us the entire Technology and allow us to become self reliant in this field.

 

[India Super Power]

I totally agree with you have written up here mate. The French are obviously not going to give us the Core Technology for the jet engines. In my Its better if we go for RR(Rolls Royce)
Jet engine Technology is something that not many countries in the World have been Able to Successfully master. The French will obviously not just give us the entire Technology and allow us to become self reliant in this field.

I have heard we have got most of the techs during kaveri prototype
But not have mastered

 

[Vamsi]

@Vamsi sir, so you mean whatever we built for kaveri is useless bcoz it won't be used at all

Whatever I said is my opinion and we have to wait until the deal is officially signed. But I really hope what I said is wrong

 

[Super Flanker]

I have heard we have got most of the techs during kaveri prototype
But not have mastered

We have not mastered much Technology which is required to develop a proper jet engine Technology at all.
At most the Knowledge which has been Gained in Kaveri program can be used to make an dry engine which is fit to be used in UAVS.
Like upcoming GHATAK UAV program will be reportedly using a dry thrust Variant of the Kaveri Engine.

 

[Super Flanker]

Whatever I said is my opinion and we have to wait until the deal is officially signed. But I really hope what I said is wrong

Yes. Man you are right. Anyways we will have to wait for more information with regards to this recent news of Co-operation of India with France in jet engine Technology.
I am curious to hear the Information with regards to the IP(intellectual properties) of this jet engine. Not much to comment other than this.

 

[Suryavanshi]

What we are copying pashtuns in making a carbine ?
Damn

This Tells more about our competence than theirs.

 

[Vamsi]

But we are paying royalties for Shakti engine and let me tell you what gonna happen for 110 KN engine and save this if you want . But I really wish I am wrong here

French will develop a shiny new engine using next gen technologies using our money and in return we will co-develop a engine using old M-88 based tech and still we will pay royalties for each & every engine we make here and claim that it is indigenous just like how Porks claim Blunder is theirs . Only thing Indian in that engine will be the name plate & probably the cold section.This is what gonna happen.

@IndianHawk I have some reasons to explain what I said above.

Because of misreporting of our stupid media, many people think that main problem with Kaveri is SCBs & Core. Yes there were some problems with core earlier but most of them were solved & hence we are using it for Ghatak UCAV.

But everyone keeps ignoring that the main issue with Kaveri is Afterburner section. French were supposed to solve the AB issues, but instead of doing that ,they proposed to swap the perfectly working Kabini Core with their M-88 core. They wanted to sell M-88 in the name of Kaveri. This is the main reason why I don't trust French. This is why I believe french would sell us their old M-88 tech to co-develop 110KN engine and will make us pay royalties and they will use our money to develop a brand new shiny engine for themselves.

All members may free to say that I'm doing unnecessary whining , but I'm not. I really want to be proven wrong. But I had this feeling that we will be made a big fool by french.

 

[Super Flanker]

This Tells more about our competence than theirs.

From my personal opinion, Its so sad to see that when we are able to design complex Weopons like :
1)Fighter Aircrafts
2)bombs
3)missiles
4)Nuclear Powered Submarines
And many more etc ,we are unable to design a simple gun like a carbine or infantry Rifle.
It's sad to see that we have to Import Designs from Russia etc to build simple Rifles in India.

 

[IndianHawk]

But we are paying royalties for Shakti engine and let me tell you what gonna happen for 110 KN engine and save this if you want . But I really wish I am wrong here

French will develop a shiny new engine using next gen technologies using our money and in return we will co-develop a engine using old M-88 based tech and still we will pay royalties for each & every engine we make here and claim that it is indigenous just like how Porks claim Blunder is theirs . Only thing Indian in that engine will be the name plate & probably the cold section.This is what gonna happen.

Learning from Shakti engines have allowed us to develop our own helicopter engine which is nearing completion fast. Htse1200.
Which is 100% indian IP.

If we could do similar for jet engines it will be worth it.

In the meantime it will free us from usa and it's sactions while allowing full indian manufacturing and maintenance which will save billions of dollars over the course of those programs.

Since france itself doesn't have 110kn engine it will have to be a new design or heavily reworked core. In which we will be research partners. And if france is using better SCB and TBC then us then that tech will be transferred to india. But our own SCB tech has reached levels required for this engine while in TBC we may be slightly behind the best. So we gotta learn.

Btw GE itself is offering 60% tot for f414. So any partnership with france will require far more intensive tech transfer. I would guess greater than 80%.

Anyway let's first wait for more details . Rest is all speculations.

 

[India Super Power]

Learning from Shakti engines have allowed us to develop our own helicopter engine which is nearing completion fast. Htse1200.
Which is 100% indian IP.

If we could do similar for jet engines it will be worth it.

In the meantime it will free us from usa and it's sactions while allowing full indian manufacturing and maintenance which will save billions of dollars over the course of those programs.

Since france itself doesn't have 110kn engine it will have to be a new design or heavily reworked core. In which we will be research partners. And if france is using better SCB and TBC then us then that tech will be transferred to india. But our own SCB tech has reached levels required for this engine while in TBC we may be slightly behind the best. So we gotta learn.

Btw GE itself is offering 60% tot for f414. So any partnership with france will require far more intensive tech transfer. I would guess greater than 80%.

Anyway let's first wait for more details . Rest is all speculations.

Sir what do you think whether French will use our kaveri core or m88 core

 

[IndianHawk]

@IndianHawk I have some reasons to explain what I said above.

Because of misreporting of our stupid media, many people think that main problem with Kaveri is SCBs & Core. Yes there were some problems with core earlier but most of them were solved & hence we are using it for Ghatak UCAV.

But everyone keeps ignoring that the main issue with Kaveri is Afterburner section. French were supposed to solve the AB issues, but instead of doing that ,they proposed to swap the perfectly working Kabini Core with their M-88 core. They wanted to sell M-88 in the name of Kaveri. This is the main reason why I don't trust French. This is why I believe french would sell us their old M-88 tech to co-develop 110KN engine and will make us pay royalties and they will use our money to develop a brand new shiny engine for themselves.

All members may free to say that I'm doing unnecessary whining , but I'm not. I really want to be proven wrong. But I had this feeling that we will be made a big fool by french.

Kaveri core was adequate for he f404 level engine . But for f414 level and beyond we will need a new core. So french were half right about it.

No one exactly knows the issues of kaveri. Lots of them were solved but some still remain.

And then there were talk of rolls Royce involved.

That's why I'm waiting for more details cause in my understanding there are two programs forward.

One 110 kn futuristic engine ( with upgrade potential ) for amca and beyond.( With rolls Royce) long time development . New core .
And

One 98-100 kn engine for immediate replacement of f414. This one needs to come much faster and hence why french proposed their core instead of solving issues which would take more time .

If french are willing to give IP on their core derivative for us then that solves our immediate problem of being too dependent on usa. Even if it involves some royalties.

And then we can freely focus on truly indian 110kn+ next gen engines without any external pressure.

@India Super Power I think this answers your question too.

 

[SavageKing456]

I'm doubtful for french offer as well this might go FGFA way