DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[FalconZero]

I think l&t are also making one , much better than this abomination.

Other than BEL i doubt any Indian PSU in defense sector is that big on design aspect. Which is not surprising since they lack any dedicated marketing wing which can work together with the designing team.

People who are 'talking about edge' through import should know that when the war starts like kadi ninda started running to russia to beg for muh imports is what will happen that's what your edge looks like.

At one side you will shit on the projects like MWF and then do rona about why there's no indigenous capability and that is also where they are wrong.

Tejas mk1a will easily get the needed 16/year delivery rate. If they order more HAL can easily shill out more. Their progress on FOC is great. DRDO is doing amazing with SWIFT.

I don't want to get into the unnecessary debate of muh more clusterfuck of import of phoren aircraft because its futile, once MWF starts flying IAF will be forced to accept it.

India almost is paying 700million for 135 or some m777 howitzers, good you get the fast delivery but ATAG was deliberately sabotaged by the import loving dalals, they could easily get 300+ with 1Billion usd, maybe a little but it would have created a great private industry.

It's not like L&T or Tata couldn't have churned out at faster face if the order was split but they keep doing the drama.

Fuckers are soon going to blow away close to 3Billion+ usd on drones which can't be operated over Pakistan or China and during the conflict will be shot down easily by them. First they order foreign imports and then create a use case that fits that agenda, like a headless chickens.

Don't support indigenous systems, keep importing, keep sabotaging your own products and then cry about muh lack of MIC and run like a bitch to get more import when the war arrives. And people try to justify such behaviours, it's not practical, it's retardation and if you dig enough you will find dalals sleeping with natalasques or under the table deals.

 

[JBH22]

145 m777 or 36 rafale will not deter china let alone defeat. You tell me why IA didn't show interest in desi light tank solutions presented by drdo over the years, and all of sudden "hume spurt laake do" . For what reason are ka226 needed exactly.

if you see as from 1.01:00 you will see reply of General Hasnain (Retd), he advised that existing tank fleet is able to go there with the upgrade in infrastructure. May be that is why they are not in a hurry for light tank.
For Ka 226 I don't know.

 

[Tridev123]

At least present a stronger argument if you are going to argue against weapons import, this was the weakest point





No, we needed 100+ Rafales. Do you realize that 36 Rafales are a stop-gap measure to dwindling IAF strength so that HAL gets enough time to perfect and manufacture Tejas?

And 147 M777 is like a special weapon, especially suited for amphibious and surgical operations, where quick troop insertion and para-dropping of equipment will be crucial.



Because the requirement was not there. We were not expecting the Chinese will roll tanks in Ladakh, now you see a renewed focus on China being our main adversary, rather than Pakistan.
And no, IA never said to give them Spurt. IA just expressed that there exists a requirement of a light tank, and Russia/dalals seeing an opportunity, pitched in.

=============================================================

Let me ask you simple reverse questions.

If tomorrow, due to our (foolish) stubbornness for indigenously-manufactured weapons even if they are sub-par, costs us Ladakh, J&K, or Arunachal Pradesh, who is gonna take the blame? Obviously armed forces and govt.

No one will say, "Yeah we lost the war, I lost my son in war, my daughter has been sold to Chinese, but at least we got to use our indigenous weapons, because that's what was actually important".

Live. in. reality.

I agree with you partly.
Yes, presently we are not in a position to manufacture the entire range of conventional weapons needed for our security. Even many indigenous weapons use a significant amount of imported components.

But we are not alone. I believe almost all countries went through this process of building up national technological capability over a period of time. India is an relatively young country compared to the major European powers and the US which have been in existence for centuries.

I am not undermining the achievements of these powers who by hard work and scientific research have become developed countries but only putting things in perspective.

Even though we are dependent to an large extent on imported weapons as of today the goal of total self sufficiency in weapons technology is an imperative.

There is nothing wrong in aspiring to become self sufficient in all aspects of weapons technology. It may take us a decade or a couple of decades. But as a nation we need to have a road map on how to achieve it.

Only if we have an well defined plan for achieving eventual self sufficiency in weapons technology will be able to make significant progress. Creating an atmosphere conducive to quality research in our colleges and universities is an absolute necessity. Merit should be recognised and rewarded.

Our dependence on imported electronic components needs to be reduced over a period of time. An Asian country like Japan has the capability to design and manufacture almost all important electronic components. Indian scientists and engineers are not behind the Japanese in talent. We only need the right atmosphere which promotes innovation and entrepreneurship.

Our system of learning in schools needs to change. Simply rewarding rote learning and memorisation will not help promote creativity.

So let us try to set things right and believe in ourselves.

I accept that we cannot presently meet the Chinese threat without some amount of help from imported weapons. An example, the Rafales have enabled us to confidently face the PLAAF. Two squadrons are not sufficient and I believe India will aquire more. So we are rightly importing many weapon systems which are needed to defend the country.

However we should not lose sight of the eventual goal of designing and manufacturing indigenously all the weapons our country needs. So we should try to get TOT, investment in offsets, joint collaboration with friendly countries etc to increase our technological strength and manufacturing prowess. Every imported weapon system should come with some amount of technology transfer to India.

And lastly there is no way we will lose Arunachal Pradesh or any other major part of our North and North East. What are our nuclear weapons there for?. I believe that China is aware of our red lines. Pakistan is not in any remote position to seriously threaten our territorial integrity.

So while the Chinese have nibbled at our territory, they are not fools to consider a full force invasion of India. I am sure Shanghai and Beijing are too important to them to loose. Our Agni 5 with a 200 kt warhead can cover the whole of China including Harbin and Inner Mongolia.

 

[IndianHawk]

That goes For all other countries you have mentioned 99 % of the airforce in the world are flying Imported weapons that need Supply chain support from OEM

Not just

India fought all its major war based on foreign
Equipments in past hasn't it ??

Annual Spares supply and WWR(War waste reserves)established for these purposes only.
Hope you know the concept

That is why india or any nation except US,Russia, depends on imports from other resources

Countries rely on Allies in time crises
Even US and Russia cannot sustain long time wars without allied support that is
Why Warsaw pact and Nato Came into being.

PS:
Seriously Moment LCA compromised when it's choose GE engines

Americans are zero integrity when it comes to
Alignment

Until we develop Turbofan Engine technologies
We still count as a Beginner in military aviation sector.

We could live with that dependence if we were a smaller nation . But we are a emerging giant whose economic military interest will only clash more and more with established order.

I'm not against imports wherever necessary but we are lacking in indigestion compared to much smaller weaker economies. That needs to change fast and it needs a change in mentality of armed forces.

Regarding lca we are buying sufficient engine to keep it flying for next 15-20 years timeline enough to find an alternative of our own or from other partners.

This is precisely the point we are bound to import what we don't build/ don't have tech. But wherever we have desi systems they must be preferred.

 

[IndianHawk]

I hear it, I hear it all the time. And I agree with it partially, but let's look realistically -

• An emerging country like India does not have a strong military ecosystem that we can manufacture everything. Even USA/France/Russia outsources a few things and does not try to make every nut and bolt in the country, it is simply not feasible.
• Would we rather remain toothless in hope of indigenization when our adversaries are buying anything and everything they can get their hands on?
• Wars are fought today, hoping for an indigenous technology that we need today to win wars that we will get in the next 10-20 years, is not wise, is it?

Everybody claims that countries will stop exporting weapons to us in war. But has it actually ever happened in real life that it changed the tide of war?
Weapons are bought in sufficient quantities to sustain a good, long intense war (1+ month long).

For example, let's take the example of the Falklands war. French Exocet anti-ship missiles inflicted massive damage to Royal Navy's fleet. The UK then forced France to stop supplying weapons to Argentina. But the damage was done, and the war was over before it came to the attrition game.

Weapons are bought from friendly countries for a reason. We are not buying weapons from China or Pakistan, or even Turkey. We are buying weapons from friendly countries with whom we have had strong relations for many decades.



Yes, we ought to cripple us by not buying crucial weapons required to deter and defeat China rather than wait 10+ years on DRDO/HAL to develop it.
Meanwhile we will request China for a pause because apparently we don't have required weapons to fight them. China will outright agree to pause this conflict for next 10 years because they will frankly agree that developing indigenious weapons is actually more important than using them for their purpose.

That's why there must be stategy in imports when necessary. Rather then buying whole platform which may be blocked/ sanctioned we must buy components which can be stored / stocked to bide the time.

But wherever indeginous alternative is available it must be accepted by forced and made better by iterative improvement rather then going outright for foreign equipment.

Lca itself is a great example. Before Parrikar iaf wanted to discard it for its shortcomings but he forced iterative improvement with acceptance and now we have 83 mk1a coming with mk2 in pipeline.

 

[arkos]

Probably this is what Rawat saheb had in mind when he asked for a mobile CIWS

View attachment 119911

But OFB gave him this abomination.

View attachment 119912

View attachment 119910

No, the AK 630 one is better for shooting down drones as well as PGMs and rockets.

 

[Tuco]

No, the AK 630 one is better for shooting down drones as well as PGMs and rockets.

It can, that's not the point is it. That thing will stick out like sour thumb, look how tall it is. Military designs have to be inconspicuous by nature, but this would be the first thing that you will notice. Which of these two has good mobility? If army wants it to move with the column which one do you think will be suitable. OFB just put the entire thing as it is on a truck, didn't even think in terms of modifying or evolving the design. If I am not wrong as of now only BEML has a design group, high time OFB's have one too.

 

[bhramos]

 

[bhramos]

 

[WARREN SS]

145 m777 or 36 rafale will not deter china let alone defeat. You tell me why IA didn't show interest in desi light tank solutions presented by drdo over the years, and all of sudden "hume spurt laake do" . For what reason are ka226 needed exactly.

 

[fire starter]

 

[XR SAM]

MK1a

 

[arnabmit]

Even freaking Serbia, but not India.
BTW, did WhAP clear lunar trials yet?
Did OFB/DRDO come up with a decent series of turrets yet?

 

[SUPERPOWER]

Even freaking Serbia, but not India.
BTW, did WhAP clear lunar trials yet?
Did OFB/DRDO come up with a decent series of turrets yet?

No the tyre version didnt clear it so they have taken a tracked version to Moon...
Hopefully it may clear by 2121 end...Lets keep our finger crossed...

 

[SUPERPOWER]

No the tyre version didnt clear it so they have taken a tracked version to Moon...
Hopefully it may clear by 2121 end...Lets keep our finger crossed...

Listen from 0.30....Indian Genrols who go to phoren countries by using tax payers money to see phoren Maal and Gaal does not even know the actual utilities of the whap.. This is what happens when you send your Genrols for free phoren trip in the name of warfare enhancement learning..

 

[fire starter]

 

[fire starter]

 

[arkos]

Even freaking Serbia, but not India.
BTW, did WhAP clear lunar trials yet?
Did OFB/DRDO come up with a decent series of turrets yet?

Serbia inherited most of yugoslavia's military equipments and MIC. So its not really a surprise for them to make an APC. WhAP will only be inducted after theaterisation is completed, so still 2-3 years away.

 

[ezsasa]

If by middle of next year, we do not start hearing news about systems/strategies to mass launch this category of drones with minimal human intervention, MoD might start falling behind on the curve.

It should not be the case that it takes 60 minutes or more of preparations, to launch 30 drones.

 

[fire starter]