DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Vamsi]

Ok boys, brace for the hit jobs

Checkmate: Is Russia offering a new mystery fighter to India? - The Week

 

[omaebakabaka]

Now there lies the problem with technical people like Amiet or others. They do see only the technical perspective and leave alone or I would say undermine the user requirement or why user is asking for that particular requirement.

An electrical drive system is of course better then hydraulics when it comes to targeting. But I would not agree with maintenance part here. An electrical drive consists of chains and interconnected gears. Break down of anyone of this component would make the whole system ineffective. On other hand, a hydraulic system consists of hydraulic liquid, tubes and arms. Now in case of a failure if you have to replace a hydraulic part on field, it is much more easier and even a nontechnical person could do it with a pair or wrench. But replacing or rectifying a faulty electrical drive needs highly trained personal for the job.
So from user perspective, which is better? A job which could be done by the existing crew or a job for which you have to train a set of crew specially?

Let me tell you a real life experience I had faced.
After Kargil, a new system was introduced across India for border monitoring. The system was put forward along with a Petrol genset which was miles ahead in performance then its K-oil counterpart. To say, its state of the art at that time. The setup was performing faultlessly across India, but problem started arising at the Himalayan heights.
The genset was provided with a flip switch to make the job easy for user where he don't have to use physical power in chord pulling to startup the genset. But at that temperature, the battery would not budge and user have to physically start up the generator which in itself is an arduous task at 14 or 15k altitude. Even if the generator starts, it just runs for 30 second at max and shutdown automatically. Reason being carbon formation on the spark plug due to inadequate oxygen supply. So at last for those sites, the Petrol genset was replaced with the older K-oil gensets which worked flawlessly.

So you could see that an advance system comes with its own set of challenges. If it works in certain geographical location flawlessly, it doesn't mean it would work same across different geography or environmental conditions.
Moreover as many youtubers are discussing, do you think IA has got up one fine day and decided to change the drive mechanism of ATAGS? It has been considered for long and most probably been put across the design table long ago. I remember Baba Kalyani stating that the weight of ATAGS could be brought down to 16 T. It means major design changes has already been put forwarded long ago to bring down the overall weight.

Is this a joke, DRDO or any defence lab would not consider terrain characteristics in the analysis phase and build a full product and actually market it and compete with others? Even the generator example is ridiculous as these things are basic even for civilian products much less military to rate something at operational parameters....

 

[flanker99]

I just found out that talwar class frigates have a better 100 mm A- 100 Russian naval cannon than Kolkata class , which have a 76 mm oto melara gun.
India should have got 130 mm A- 130
Naval gun for Visakhapatnam class , ruskies use this thing on their Kirov and slava class ships.

Talwars are being upgraded with oto76 srgm

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

Talwars are being upgraded with oto76 srgm

Why , is 76 mm better than 100 mm

 

[flanker99]

Why , is 76 mm better than 100 mm

No idea but srgm's and its rounds are produced inhouse but afaik a100 rounds are imported

 

[FalconZero]

Now there lies the problem with technical people like Amiet or others. They do see only the technical perspective and leave alone or I would say undermine the user requirement or why user is asking for that particular requirement.

An electrical drive system is of course better then hydraulics when it comes to targeting. But I would not agree with maintenance part here. An electrical drive consists of chains and interconnected gears. Break down of anyone of this component would make the whole system ineffective. On other hand, a hydraulic system consists of hydraulic liquid, tubes and arms. Now in case of a failure if you have to replace a hydraulic part on field, it is much more easier and even a nontechnical person could do it with a pair or wrench. But replacing or rectifying a faulty electrical drive needs highly trained personal for the job.
So from user perspective, which is better? A job which could be done by the existing crew or a job for which you have to train a set of crew specially?

Let me tell you a real life experience I had faced.
After Kargil, a new system was introduced across India for border monitoring. The system was put forward along with a Petrol genset which was miles ahead in performance then its K-oil counterpart. To say, its state of the art at that time. The setup was performing faultlessly across India, but problem started arising at the Himalayan heights.
The genset was provided with a flip switch to make the job easy for user where he don't have to use physical power in chord pulling to startup the genset. But at that temperature, the battery would not budge and user have to physically start up the generator which in itself is an arduous task at 14 or 15k altitude. Even if the generator starts, it just runs for 30 second at max and shutdown automatically. Reason being carbon formation on the spark plug due to inadequate oxygen supply. So at last for those sites, the Petrol genset was replaced with the older K-oil gensets which worked flawlessly.

So you could see that an advance system comes with its own set of challenges. If it works in certain geographical location flawlessly, it doesn't mean it would work same across different geography or environmental conditions.
Moreover as many youtubers are discussing, do you think IA has got up one fine day and decided to change the drive mechanism of ATAGS? It has been considered for long and most probably been put across the design table long ago. I remember Baba Kalyani stating that the weight of ATAGS could be brought down to 16 T. It means major design changes has already been put forwarded long ago to bring down the overall weight.

That seems fair but isn't it IA's responsibility that if that thing is so much of an issue then mention it beforehand? At most, it sounds like a good excuse nothing else.

 

[ezsasa]

I just found out that talwar class frigates have a better 100 mm A- 100 Russian naval cannon than Kolkata class , which have a 76 mm oto melara gun.
India should have got 130 mm A- 130
Naval gun for Visakhapatnam class , ruskies use this thing on their Kirov and slava class ships.

what if calibre is not the criteria, but rather reliable logistics and maintenance?

 

[SavageKing456]

OFB is literally trolling everyone with "futuristic"

 

[Aditya Ballal]

 

[fire starter]

Tender out for.
Design and Development of communication and networking system.

seems like a combat scenario involving both troops and UGV connected with each other.

 

[fire starter]

ARDE is developing family of 40mm UBGL.

 

[fire starter]

ARDE anti drone system.

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

what if calibre is not the criteria, but rather reliable logistics and maintenance?

I saw a video , it said that today naval guns. Need to be fast.
In ww2 era 403 mm naval guns too were in service , they were ship busters and more than ideal for shore bombardment , plus India army once used 5 inch howitzers from Britain , they were once used on ships .
But today it's different , it's about fastness and yes reliability.
So ,I understand why Navy goes for 76 mm oto melara guns , but should have still got Mk 45 127 mm guns from USA though.

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

OFB is literally trolling everyone with "futuristic"

If it works , it's not bad.

 

[Chinmoy]

That seems fair but isn't it IA's responsibility that if that thing is so much of an issue then mention it beforehand? At most, it sounds like a good excuse nothing else.

IA have already voiced their concern regarding the weight factor, which is the primary drawback of ATAGS in its early days itself.

Now if by changing the drive the weight and price of ATAGS could be brought down, then where is the issue? As I already mentioned, this decision has not been taken overnight. Its just that it has came out in news now.

 

[SavageKing456]

IA have already voiced their concern regarding the weight factor, which is the primary drawback of ATAGS in its early days itself.

Now if by changing the drive the weight and price of ATAGS could be brought down, then where is the issue? As I already mentioned, this decision has not been taken overnight. Its just that it has came out in news now.

Okay so after modifying the gun with hydraulics drive,will they start the trials again,from scratch?
Or would directly induct em?

 

[Chinmoy]

Is this a joke, DRDO or any defence lab would not consider terrain characteristics in the analysis phase and build a full product and actually market it and compete with others? Even the generator example is ridiculous as these things are basic even for civilian products much less military to rate something at operational parameters....

Welcome to the practical world.

Why you think DRDO projects for IN are more successful then IA or IAF?
The only project of IA which has moved forward from design to test phase with DRDO is ASMI. The reason being is the collaboration of user and designer from initial phase itself.

 

[Chinmoy]

Okay so after modifying the gun with hydraulics drive,will they start the trials again,from scratch?
Or would directly induct em?

Hydraulic drive is a tried and tested system by IA. So it would see its own set of tests, but not extensive ones like a new system.
Catch is, its only drive system which gets changed.

 

[fire starter]

Welcome to the practical world.

Why you think DRDO projects for IN are more successful then IA or IAF?
The only project of IA which has moved forward from design to test phase with DRDO is ASMI. The reason being is the collaboration of user and designer from initial phase itself.

So why don't they replicate it on other projects as well.

 

[FalconZero]

IA have already voiced their concern regarding the weight factor, which is the primary drawback of ATAGS in its early days itself.

Now if by changing the drive the weight and price of ATAGS could be brought down, then where is the issue? As I already mentioned, this decision has not been taken overnight. Its just that it has came out in news now.

>concern for weight
Do you realise that you are just making excuses at this point right? ATAGs showed that they are more than capable even with that weight.

From the print :

DRDO will begin trials of Made-in-India towed artillery in June but Army still has ‘concerns’

While the DRDO insists ATAGS are better than the Israeli ATHOS, the army has voiced concern over its weight and inability to meet critical performance parameters.

theprint.in

It's the army's fault that they are shit tier at communication, weight is not an issue but an excuse for import loving dalals.

Do you have any official complain about the electric drive from army before any just few weeks back?