DEFEXPO-2022

Kuldeepm952

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Thanks for that presentation. Very informative. Maybe they'll further develop 2D or 3D CCF as well after completing 1D CCF development.

On an unrelated note, are there any specs or interview about the new ATAGS Mounted Gun System? I remember one poster about it read "automatic loading of rounds" or something. So is it like Archer MGS in that regard?
Nah, not much. By automated loading my best guess is Caesar 8*8 loading system minus that robotic arm which fetched ammo from side. There does seem to be something long at the end of the gun of drdo mgs

I hope someone in IA and DRDO make munitions like SMART or bonus artillery round, or air bombs like sensor fuzed munitions.
 

Aniruddha Mulay

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Thanks for that presentation. Very informative. Maybe they'll further develop 2D or 3D CCF as well after completing 1D CCF development.

On an unrelated note, are there any specs or interview about the new ATAGS Mounted Gun System? I remember one poster about it read "automatic loading of rounds" or something. So is it like Archer MGS in that regard?
Here you go, 155x52 AMAGS Spec Sheet:
FfU329GacAAOZJY.jpeg
 

Okabe Rintarou

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Nah, not much. By automated loading my best guess is Caesar 8*8 loading system minus that robotic arm which fetched ammo from side. There does seem to be something long at the end of the gun of drdo mgs

I hope someone in IA and DRDO make munitions like SMART or bonus artillery round, or air bombs like sensor fuzed munitions.
I think it'll be superior to Cesear at least. ATAGS towed version already has a 6-round magazine that enable completely automatic loading of shell and charges for six rounds, as compared to the Cesear where there are two dudes putting a round and the charge in place after every round fired. The poster of ATAGS Mounted Gun System says "automatic ammunition handling system for higher rate of fire", so I was thinking maybe they connected the ATAGS's 6-round magazine to some autoloader that can fill rounds from a larger magazine on the truck? That would make it similar to Archer to the point where there is no need for crew to dismount during firing.
 

abingdonboy

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Thanks for that presentation. Very informative. Maybe they'll further develop 2D or 3D CCF as well after completing 1D CCF development.

On an unrelated note, are there any specs or interview about the new ATAGS Mounted Gun System? I remember one poster about it read "automatic loading of rounds" or something. So is it like Archer MGS in that regard?
Automatic firing is not going to be present nor is is needed
 

Okabe Rintarou

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belt fed or chain fed but not if its stored like ceasor....thats an idiotic way to complicate.
ceaser is really meh. As for the exact mechanism of ATAGS, I've never found it. Only info we have is that its got a crane that can lift three rounds at a time and that its got a magazine of six rounds. But I imagine that the ammo loading in ATAGS is rather similar to Athos with the only difference being that Athos has a magazine of three rounds:-


.
But what I am hoping they've done in ATAGS MGS is something similar to Archer:-


On an unrelated note, this video of Archer above is the best marketing anybody can do for their Artillery gun. Wonder why we can't do such marketing of our products like ATAGS. This one video speaks louder than any brouchre or salesman possibly can about the capability of Archer.
 

Kuldeepm952

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ceaser is really meh. As for the exact mechanism of ATAGS, I've never found it. Only info we have is that its got a crane that can lift three rounds at a time and that its got a magazine of six rounds. But I imagine that the ammo loading in ATAGS is rather similar to Athos with the only difference being that Athos has a magazine of three rounds:-


.
But what I am hoping they've done in ATAGS MGS is something similar to Archer:-


On an unrelated note, this video of Archer above is the best marketing anybody can do for their Artillery gun. Wonder why we can't do such marketing of our products like ATAGS. This one video speaks louder than any brouchre or salesman possibly can about the capability of Archer.
There are two Caesars 8x8 and 6x6, 8x8 one is one of the good ones available on market, search the loading of ATMOS, pretty basic if you ask me compared to Caesar 8x8
ATAGS is actually like Caesar 8x8, loading+magzine, there's semi-autoloading of charge too unlike Athos

I don't really the like and see the need of Archer like Sph. I'd rather have have denel g6 for wheeled mobility automated arty and also use the same turret to make a tracked sph.

Well as starters in defense export we should make good promos but who it is what it is. Theyd eventually have to market things right if they want to sell otherwise their loss.
 

jik60

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Hello All,

firstly my apologies for not getting you the required DefExpo2022 pictures and the information on time. It was really tough to cope with 35C of Gujrat, straight after landing from 5C of Chicago.

As a system safety engineering lead, I was with my company's leadership for purely technical discussions with the players in the military automotive sector. My company is a critical Tier-1 supplier to major Automotive and Aviation giants.

It became strikingly difficult for me to take pictures, ask questions, and be with my company's leadership at the same time. Some of the US military attache folks also were with us. However, I managed to gather some information and captured some good photographs

Nirbhay / ITCM/ ADE :
  • As Confirmed By one of the project directors of ADE (my god what a humble person), the next ITCM test with indigenous RF seeker and Engine would be on the 28th of October :shock: .
  • They got approval from IN and IAF (IN is mostly pushing it) for LR-LACM, all these ITCM trials are the precursor process to finally jump to the LR-LACM
  • LR-LACM range will be 1200+ km (mostly HI-Hi window is up to 1500 km), whereas in ITCM it was 1000 km
  • LR-LACM will be much longer than ITCM (Nirbhay)
  • IAF will also be a customer but only for the ground launch version to complement the Brahmos, the AL version has been considered or realized yet.
GTRE / Kaveri:
  • As per the senior officials (has requested me not to quote them) all 3 are equally evil
  • According to them why should anybody in the world would share their IP, they are of the opinion that; you can not develop or reverse engineered a turbofan pplsn system by taking one part from here and start developing another one from somewhere else and ending up rejoining them.
  • Their secret wish is that GOI should release a new project with more funds to develop a new engine (I am a part of my org's RnD dept, and I know how managers do shenanigans to get more RnD funds :) )
  • Despite all these, they are hopeful for GOI's new endeavor for JV, all motives behind the JVs are only economical in nature
  • Mostly GOI will form a consortium or spv for Kaveri in the line of Brahmos, the one for AK203, or the planned one for AMCA to bypass the older player like HAL, OFB, or probably the GTRE in the future
  • the marine version is completely a different project altogether, it's not a variant of KAVERI
  • GTRE has done some renewed efforts in the line of crystal blades, they have achieved some success, and will release more details in 2023
  • Sorry couldn't gather any updates on the flying test bed and the delay in testing the new engines for Ghatak UCAV, due to Rus-UKR war
ATAGS:
  • Yes ATAGS are probably the biggest attraction point/showstopper of DEFEXPO 2022, DRDO has 4 models (2 BF + 2 TATA) at various static displays.
  • This product is probably going to be the next flagship one such as Brahmos, Pinaka, and Tejas
  • DRDO official: MET (Maintainance related )trails over, QA trails are going on (hindered due to defexpo only)
  • Passed all the dynamic firing trials with flying colors, again achieved 48 km range in recent tests
  • DRDO is super upbeat about ATAGs (had seen similar enthu for very few like Tejas, Prithvi, and A series missile in the past)
ATGMs:
  • DRDO: NAG/HELINA/MPATGM are all at their terminal phase development except the SANT
  • NAG/HELINA/MPATGM all3 projects are now at the documentation handover to the manufacturer phase, all 3 of them already got good initial numerical orders from forces (DRDO officials didn't provide me exact numbers)
DRDO AIP:
  • The last scorpene will be fitted with DRDO AIP and from 2025 onwards the MLU of the kalvari class will see the integration of the indigenous AIP ( but I think this was just a sweeping stmnt from that particular drdo official, there will be much more into it)
AMCA/DAS/EOTS:
(Dammn DR. Ghosh was probably the hardest nut to crack and he was the only person except Dr Deodhar to speak on AMCA with some authority, didn't get much info)
  • CDR by 2022 Dec, CCS approval by early 2023 (again felt like a generic stmnt is coming from the horse's mouth )
  • EOTS will be a part of DAS approach and will only be available in mk2, mk-1 will have IRST
  • for Qs like IR signature reduction methods, especially in the back and air intake portion: no comments with a generic answer like " We have some plan"
For the rest of the questions such as those related to the small arms and their details, HAL CATS, IMRH, CABS Netra mk2, MMMR, I will visit again the HEC Gandhinagar on 21st and try to cover those
 

omaebakabaka

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ceaser is really meh. As for the exact mechanism of ATAGS, I've never found it. Only info we have is that its got a crane that can lift three rounds at a time and that its got a magazine of six rounds. But I imagine that the ammo loading in ATAGS is rather similar to Athos with the only difference being that Athos has a magazine of three rounds:-


.
But what I am hoping they've done in ATAGS MGS is something similar to Archer:-


On an unrelated note, this video of Archer above is the best marketing anybody can do for their Artillery gun. Wonder why we can't do such marketing of our products like ATAGS. This one video speaks louder than any brouchre or salesman possibly can about the capability of Archer.
To me Archer looks not very well balanced overall depending on the terrain....but whatever mechanism it is using inside which I believe will be similar to autoloading in Russian tanks is good enough....only thing is it should be easy to replenish with a service crane. Athos is just too complicated looking at whole bunch of moving arms. I think dudes with ergonomic lift assists(forgot what they are called, you wear it on your body to lift 2 times your weight?) would be faster than these convoluted mechanisms
 

omaebakabaka

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Automatic firing is not going to be present nor is is needed
I think you have a point until someone figures out the simple way than whats out there....Archer looks decent but inside a tank it makes sense to autoload on the move and limited space. I am not sure if its totally a plus to autoload with that degree of additional movements if a gun has to position itself and all that
 

Okabe Rintarou

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Hello All,

firstly my apologies for not getting you the required DefExpo2022 pictures and the information on time. It was really tough to cope with 35C of Gujrat, straight after landing from 5C of Chicago.

As a system safety engineering lead, I was with my company's leadership for purely technical discussions with the players in the military automotive sector. My company is a critical Tier-1 supplier to major Automotive and Aviation giants.

It became strikingly difficult for me to take pictures, ask questions, and be with my company's leadership at the same time. Some of the US military attache folks also were with us. However, I managed to gather some information and captured some good photographs

Nirbhay / ITCM/ ADE :
  • As Confirmed By one of the project directors of ADE (my god what a humble person), the next ITCM test with indigenous RF seeker and Engine would be on the 28th of October :shock: .
  • They got approval from IN and IAF (IN is mostly pushing it) for LR-LACM, all these ITCM trials are the precursor process to finally jump to the LR-LACM
  • LR-LACM range will be 1200+ km (mostly HI-Hi window is up to 1500 km), whereas in ITCM it was 1000 km
  • LR-LACM will be much longer than ITCM (Nirbhay)
  • IAF will also be a customer but only for the ground launch version to complement the Brahmos, the AL version has been considered or realized yet.
GTRE / Kaveri:
  • As per the senior officials (has requested me not to quote them) all 3 are equally evil
  • According to them why should anybody in the world would share their IP, they are of the opinion that; you can not develop or reverse engineered a turbofan pplsn system by taking one part from here and start developing another one from somewhere else and ending up rejoining them.
  • Their secret wish is that GOI should release a new project with more funds to develop a new engine (I am a part of my org's RnD dept, and I know how managers do shenanigans to get more RnD funds :) )
  • Despite all these, they are hopeful for GOI's new endeavor for JV, all motives behind the JVs are only economical in nature
  • Mostly GOI will form a consortium or spv for Kaveri in the line of Brahmos, the one for AK203, or the planned one for AMCA to bypass the older player like HAL, OFB, or probably the GTRE in the future
  • the marine version is completely a different project altogether, it's not a variant of KAVERI
  • GTRE has done some renewed efforts in the line of crystal blades, they have achieved some success, and will release more details in 2023
  • Sorry couldn't gather any updates on the flying test bed and the delay in testing the new engines for Ghatak UCAV, due to Rus-UKR war
ATAGS:
  • Yes ATAGS are probably the biggest attraction point/showstopper of DEFEXPO 2022, DRDO has 4 models (2 BF + 2 TATA) at various static displays.
  • This product is probably going to be the next flagship one such as Brahmos, Pinaka, and Tejas
  • DRDO official: MET (Maintainance related )trails over, QA trails are going on (hindered due to defexpo only)
  • Passed all the dynamic firing trials with flying colors, again achieved 48 km range in recent tests
  • DRDO is super upbeat about ATAGs (had seen similar enthu for very few like Tejas, Prithvi, and A series missile in the past)
ATGMs:
  • DRDO: NAG/HELINA/MPATGM are all at their terminal phase development except the SANT
  • NAG/HELINA/MPATGM all3 projects are now at the documentation handover to the manufacturer phase, all 3 of them already got good initial numerical orders from forces (DRDO officials didn't provide me exact numbers)
DRDO AIP:
  • The last scorpene will be fitted with DRDO AIP and from 2025 onwards the MLU of the kalvari class will see the integration of the indigenous AIP ( but I think this was just a sweeping stmnt from that particular drdo official, there will be much more into it)
AMCA/DAS/EOTS:
(Dammn DR. Ghosh was probably the hardest nut to crack and he was the only person except Dr Deodhar to speak on AMCA with some authority, didn't get much info)
  • CDR by 2022 Dec, CCS approval by early 2023 (again felt like a generic stmnt is coming from the horse's mouth )
  • EOTS will be a part of DAS approach and will only be available in mk2, mk-1 will have IRST
  • for Qs like IR signature reduction methods, especially in the back and air intake portion: no comments with a generic answer like " We have some plan"
For the rest of the questions such as those related to the small arms and their details, HAL CATS, IMRH, CABS Netra mk2, MMMR, I will visit again the HEC Gandhinagar on 21st and try to cover those
Thanks a lot man! Great job! Happy to hear about the EOTS on AMCA Mk2, ATGMs and ATAGS. Whenever you visit again, please do ask about the ATAGS Mounted Gun System and specifically any pics/posters/brochure or official interview about the automatic ammunition handling system of ATAGS MGS.
Is the charge loading also automated or is it mannual like in towed ATAGS?
Is the 6-round magazine retained?
Is the crane retained?
Is there a mechanism to feed the magazine automatically from another larger magazine on the truck or is it the same crane+6-round magazine system found in ATAGS towed?
 

jik60

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Can somebody tell me, how to upload the HEIC image file from MAC? Its throwing me errors, thanks in advance
 

jik60

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Thanks a lot man! Great job! Happy to hear about the EOTS on AMCA Mk2, ATGMs and ATAGS. Whenever you visit again, please do ask about the ATAGS Mounted Gun System and specifically any pics/posters/brochure or official interview about the automatic ammunition handling system of ATAGS MGS.
Is the charge loading also automated or is it mannual like in towed ATAGS?
Is the 6-round magazine retained?
Is the crane retained?
Is there a mechanism to feed the magazine automatically from another larger magazine on the truck or is it the same crane+6-round magazine system found in ATAGS towed?
I have pictures of MGS but couldn't upload them over here, it's throwing errors, its .HEIC images from my MacBook
 

Okabe Rintarou

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I have pictures of MGS but couldn't upload them over here, it's throwing errors, its .HEIC images from my MacBook
I looked it up on XenForo community but there is no way other than to first convert it to jpg I think:-
 
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