DEFEXPO-2022

abingdonboy

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Why is automatic firing undesirable? Maintenance costs and complexity? Or some other reason? I mean Archer MGS has it. And its considered the best MGS.
How many people ordered the Archer? It’s over engineered for what it is, it’s designed for Nordic/Scandinavian countries with low manpower capital and where the elements are a challenge.

the benefits really don’t outweigh the costs, the Caesar (and hopefully the DRDO MGS) can be transported in something as small as a C130 and is less complicated so more sustainable
 

jik60

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Defexpo 2022 was a bit low-key if I would compare it to some of my previous attended shows like 2013 and 2015 Aero INDIA. But it seems like NAMO's Atmanirbhar mantra will see the light in the near future. The whole made in INDIA vibe was so strong in this issue of this biennial event.

BMP2M with AVISION LM:
IMG_0145.jpg

IMG_0146.jpg


IMG_0149.jpg

IMG_0148.jpg
 

abingdonboy

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Hello All,

firstly my apologies for not getting you the required DefExpo2022 pictures and the information on time. It was really tough to cope with 35C of Gujrat, straight after landing from 5C of Chicago.

As a system safety engineering lead, I was with my company's leadership for purely technical discussions with the players in the military automotive sector. My company is a critical Tier-1 supplier to major Automotive and Aviation giants.

It became strikingly difficult for me to take pictures, ask questions, and be with my company's leadership at the same time. Some of the US military attache folks also were with us. However, I managed to gather some information and captured some good photographs

Nirbhay / ITCM/ ADE :
  • As Confirmed By one of the project directors of ADE (my god what a humble person), the next ITCM test with indigenous RF seeker and Engine would be on the 28th of October :shock: .
  • They got approval from IN and IAF (IN is mostly pushing it) for LR-LACM, all these ITCM trials are the precursor process to finally jump to the LR-LACM
  • LR-LACM range will be 1200+ km (mostly HI-Hi window is up to 1500 km), whereas in ITCM it was 1000 km
  • LR-LACM will be much longer than ITCM (Nirbhay)
  • IAF will also be a customer but only for the ground launch version to complement the Brahmos, the AL version has been considered or realized yet.
GTRE / Kaveri:
  • As per the senior officials (has requested me not to quote them) all 3 are equally evil
  • According to them why should anybody in the world would share their IP, they are of the opinion that; you can not develop or reverse engineered a turbofan pplsn system by taking one part from here and start developing another one from somewhere else and ending up rejoining them.
  • Their secret wish is that GOI should release a new project with more funds to develop a new engine (I am a part of my org's RnD dept, and I know how managers do shenanigans to get more RnD funds :) )
  • Despite all these, they are hopeful for GOI's new endeavor for JV, all motives behind the JVs are only economical in nature
  • Mostly GOI will form a consortium or spv for Kaveri in the line of Brahmos, the one for AK203, or the planned one for AMCA to bypass the older player like HAL, OFB, or probably the GTRE in the future
  • the marine version is completely a different project altogether, it's not a variant of KAVERI
  • GTRE has done some renewed efforts in the line of crystal blades, they have achieved some success, and will release more details in 2023
  • Sorry couldn't gather any updates on the flying test bed and the delay in testing the new engines for Ghatak UCAV, due to Rus-UKR war
ATAGS:
  • Yes ATAGS are probably the biggest attraction point/showstopper of DEFEXPO 2022, DRDO has 4 models (2 BF + 2 TATA) at various static displays.
  • This product is probably going to be the next flagship one such as Brahmos, Pinaka, and Tejas
  • DRDO official: MET (Maintainance related )trails over, QA trails are going on (hindered due to defexpo only)
  • Passed all the dynamic firing trials with flying colors, again achieved 48 km range in recent tests
  • DRDO is super upbeat about ATAGs (had seen similar enthu for very few like Tejas, Prithvi, and A series missile in the past)
ATGMs:
  • DRDO: NAG/HELINA/MPATGM are all at their terminal phase development except the SANT
  • NAG/HELINA/MPATGM all3 projects are now at the documentation handover to the manufacturer phase, all 3 of them already got good initial numerical orders from forces (DRDO officials didn't provide me exact numbers)
DRDO AIP:
  • The last scorpene will be fitted with DRDO AIP and from 2025 onwards the MLU of the kalvari class will see the integration of the indigenous AIP ( but I think this was just a sweeping stmnt from that particular drdo official, there will be much more into it)
AMCA/DAS/EOTS:
(Dammn DR. Ghosh was probably the hardest nut to crack and he was the only person except Dr Deodhar to speak on AMCA with some authority, didn't get much info)
  • CDR by 2022 Dec, CCS approval by early 2023 (again felt like a generic stmnt is coming from the horse's mouth )
  • EOTS will be a part of DAS approach and will only be available in mk2, mk-1 will have IRST
  • for Qs like IR signature reduction methods, especially in the back and air intake portion: no comments with a generic answer like " We have some plan"
For the rest of the questions such as those related to the small arms and their details, HAL CATS, IMRH, CABS Netra mk2, MMMR, I will visit again the HEC Gandhinagar on 21st and try to cover those
Excellent stuff buddy


any chance you could ask someone what happened to NAMICA and if they have plans to mount it on the Kestral? And what platform are they planning for the Mk.2?
 

abingdonboy

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I think you have a point until someone figures out the simple way than whats out there....Archer looks decent but inside a tank it makes sense to autoload on the move and limited space. I am not sure if its totally a plus to autoload with that degree of additional movements if a gun has to position itself and all that
The Caesar mechanism has to be the most optimised semi-auto system you can possibly have and what DRDO should aim to get to if they can for their MGS

I have tried to find the ammo crane on the DRDO MGS but can’t point it out, I’m sure they’ve thought of it so let’s wait and see. Can’t wait to see mobility and firing trails of this thing
 

abingdonboy

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Really impressed by the finish and workmanship of the MGS, it looks like a mature product already as compared to the OFB’a Dhanush MGS which looks hilariously outdated and rudimentary by comparison

+ the last pic you have one of the SPG’s escort vehicles, did you get any other snaps of SPG?
 

jik60

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Really impressed by the finish and workmanship of the MGS, it looks like a mature product already as compared to the OFB’a Dhanush MGS which looks hilariously outdated and rudimentary by comparison

+ the last pic you have one of the SPG’s escort vehicles, did you get any other snaps of SPG?
:) Yahh you sniff the SPG like anything....
Yup that was part of SPG, in fact right at that moment it was the SPG trail and they are probably securing HALL -1 for a possible PM visit. Unfortunately, I couldn't take pictures as I was overwhelmed by the ATAGs
 

Okabe Rintarou

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10 round magazine!!!!!! Is this TATA version?
That snap of the rear of MGS does make it seem like it'll be a Cesear 8X8 type loading system. Did the MGS have a crane and a magazine?
 

abingdonboy

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:) Yahh you sniff the SPG like anything....
Yup that was part of SPG, in fact right at that moment it was the SPG trail and they are probably securing HALL -1 for a possible PM visit. Unfortunately, I couldn't take pictures as I was overwhelmed by the ATAGs
No worries but you mean this is before the PM has arrived or the PM is inside at this time?
 

Okabe Rintarou

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Really impressed by the finish and workmanship of the MGS, it looks like a mature product already as compared to the OFB’a Dhanush MGS which looks hilariously outdated and rudimentary by comparison
Meanwhile on r/IndianDefense people getting confused between Dhanush MGS and ATAGS MGS be like:-

Screenshot_20221020_032454.png


See? DRDO can't do anything, only private sector can lol.
 

abingdonboy

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DRDO proposed FICV, don't confuse by the LnT hull. Actually, they are refurbishing the ABHYA project with a complete overhaul (Including the 40 mm main gun). This baby is now 40% lighter and currently going through mobility testing :

View attachment 177482
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It was confirmed to you this is a refurbished Abhay? So L&T has 2 different FICV models?

someone else had claimed this was a mobility prototype and inside hall is the electronic prototype
 

abingdonboy

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Meanwhile on r/IndianDefense people getting confused between Dhanush MGS and ATAGS MGS be like:-

View attachment 177485

See? DRDO can't do anything, only private sector can lol.
People don’t seem to be able to differentiate between PSUs and DRDO a lot of the time.

anyway this MGS is the perfect example of DRDO-private sector collaboration- in fact the entire ATAGS project is. DRDO designed much of it (with private sector help) but private sector fabricated it. Also ATAGS was even more of a success because it involved 2 private players competing against one another
 

jik60

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It was confirmed to you this is a refurbished Abhay? So L&T has 2 different FICV models?

someone else had claimed this was a mobility prototype and inside hall is the electronic prototype
Definitely what LnT was showcasing inside its exhibitor hall is a different FICV (mostly it was covered with camo), but this was confirmed by that 2 gentle men (They are some H or G level ) that it was inherited from Abhaya pgm
 

Okabe Rintarou

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I have a complete 4 min video of MGS being introduced in BF's PUne plant but don't know whether it would be a IP right issue if I post that over here
Why should it be an IP issue? Wasn't it a marketing video?

MOTHERFUCKER!.. Sidewalls are 14.5 mm resistant? 🫡 BMP can barely stop .50cal
How about the front?.. should be 30mm resistant atleast.
I think even Kestrel sidewalls can take that much, no? Kestrel is STANAG IV.
 
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