Civil war in Ukraine

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Super Flanker

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Do I write on Russian, well and that? To me to write laziness in English, this is strong long. Then I allow through translator and edit. It is possible submind of at', that here all Englishmen. :)
I am not saying that all Ukrainians Speak Russia, I said that I have seen Ukrainians on the internet couple of times write in Russian Language.
 

asianobserve

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I am not saying that all Ukrainians Speak Russia, I said that I have seen Ukrainians on the internet couple of times write in Russian Language.
Even if 100% of Ukrainians speak Russian that does not make Ukraine a part of Russia or vassal of Russia. @Akim is right, majority of Indians speak English, that does that give England a right to lord over India?
 

cannonfodder

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@Akim and @Flash12 Wanted to know how correct is this understanding from both Ukraine and Russian perspective. Just an heads up Tom Nash is ex-Russian in US, I think its quite accurate analysis on everything happening from earlier reading.

One comment there is more interesting:
"As an American and ex-military, I am fascinated by this kind of stuff. I am also very well traveled and have lived on almost every continent and I even have an ex from a old USSR country. I consider myself pretty well informed on what the REAL story is. Putin doesn't want nukes right on his border..(even though they are already there, just not publicly). He has been pushed into a corner. Quite frankly, I am surprised NATO got this far. I remember driving thru Bosnia and Croatia and thinking to myself how surreal it was (Croatians are some of the friendliest people I have ever met and the women are absolute stunners). The US needs to stand down. Ukraine isnt worth it. But I feel like there are greater powers that want this war to happen so it will happen. Get ready for it. Also, the minute this kicks off, China will make its move on Taiwan AND deploy more forces into Africa...ahhhhhhhh. People aren't even thinking about China and Africa...but people dont realize, China just deployed over 10,000 troops to Djibouti, Africa. Why would they do that??? Hmmmmm. This is about to go down. China wants Africa's mineral's "

Is this true that there are already Nato N build up like this?
 

Akim

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I am not saying that all Ukrainians Speak Russia, I said that I have seen Ukrainians on the internet couple of times write in Russian Language.
We don't have a language problem. Speak whatever you want, but office work is only in state language.
But grammatically, these languages are close and you have to be a real moron who is not able to learn it.
 

SwordOfDarkness

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Even if 100% of Ukrainians speak Russian that does not make Ukraine a part of Russia or vassal of Russia. @Akim is right, majority of Indians speak English, that does that give England a right to lord over India?
Actually, most Indians dont speak english. Lots do, but most dont understand it beyong a few words like yes, no, left, right, numbers, thank you sorry etc.
 

SwordOfDarkness

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@Akim and @Flash12 Wanted to know how correct is this understanding from both Ukraine and Russian perspective. Just an heads up Tom Nash is ex-Russian in US, I think its quite accurate analysis on everything happening from earlier reading.

One comment there is more interesting:
"As an American and ex-military, I am fascinated by this kind of stuff. I am also very well traveled and have lived on almost every continent and I even have an ex from a old USSR country. I consider myself pretty well informed on what the REAL story is. Putin doesn't want nukes right on his border..(even though they are already there, just not publicly). He has been pushed into a corner. Quite frankly, I am surprised NATO got this far. I remember driving thru Bosnia and Croatia and thinking to myself how surreal it was (Croatians are some of the friendliest people I have ever met and the women are absolute stunners). The US needs to stand down. Ukraine isnt worth it. But I feel like there are greater powers that want this war to happen so it will happen. Get ready for it. Also, the minute this kicks off, China will make its move on Taiwan AND deploy more forces into Africa...ahhhhhhhh. People aren't even thinking about China and Africa...but people dont realize, China just deployed over 10,000 troops to Djibouti, Africa. Why would they do that??? Hmmmmm. This is about to go down. China wants Africa's mineral's "

Is this true that there are already Nato N build up like this?
Yes, nato nukes (US nukes to be precise) are positioned in NATO countries bordering russia.
 

asianobserve

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Yes, nato nukes (US nukes to be precise) are positioned in NATO countries bordering russia.
Wrong on all count. No. 1, NATO does not own nukes The B-61 nuclear bombs stationed in Europe are owned by the US. No. 2, B-61 nuclear bombs are stationed only in 5 European countries, Belgium, Germany, Netherlands, Italy, and Turkey. There are no nuclear weapons stationed by either the US, UK or France (the only3 NATO members with nuclear weapons) in Eastern Europe.
 

cannonfodder

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Yes, nato nukes (US nukes to be precise) are positioned in NATO countries bordering russia.
Thanks, Can you please elaborate which of the border countries? Would be surprised if they have build up in non-Nato countries too.. and Putin allowed it. Also according to video, there was agreement stating that nato/US will not move more eastwards after USSR failed.
 

SwordOfDarkness

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Wrong on all count. No. 1, NATO does not own nukes The B-61 nuclear bombs stationed in Europe are owned by the US; No. 2, B-61 nuclear bombs are stationed only in 5 European countries, Belgium, Germany, Netherlands, Italy, and Turkey. There are no nuclear weapons stationed by either the US, UK or France (the only3 NATO members with nuclear weapons) in Eastern Europe.
1)"US Nukes"

2)There are nuclear missiles in Eastern Europe. Otherwise the demand to remove those missiles or have nuclear missiles put up in cuba, would make no sense.
 

SwordOfDarkness

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Thanks, Can you please elaborate which of the border countries? Would be surprised if they have build up in non-Nato countries too.. and Putin allowed it. Also according to video, there was agreement stating that nato/US will not move more eastwards after USSR failed.
Nothing in non nato countries beyond some small training staff for US weapons.

When USSR collapsed, US guarantee to russia was that they would not expand "one inch beyond germany". They went far beyond that, and are right up to russian borders now.
 

asianobserve

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1)"US Nukes"

2)There are nuclear missiles in Eastern Europe. Otherwise the demand to remove those missiles or have nuclear missiles put up in cuba, would make no sense.

You're confusing things. The quid pro quo in the Cuba crisis were between US Pershing nuclear tactical ballistic missiles stationed in Turkey versus Soviet SS-4 and SS-5 which it stationed in retaliation in Cuba.

Right now, there are no nuclear weapons stationed by the US in Eastern Europe. What the US is setting up is a network of Ant-Ballistic Missile Defense systems to protect Europe from Middle East (Iranian) ballistic ,missiles. Russia claims that these missile defense systems are aimed at neutralizing its nuclear assets.
 

Akim

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@Akim and @Flash12 Wanted to know how correct is this understanding from both Ukraine and Russian perspective. Just an heads up Tom Nash is ex-Russian in US, I think its quite accurate analysis on everything happening from earlier reading.

One comment there is more interesting:
"As an American and ex-military, I am fascinated by this kind of stuff. I am also very well traveled and have lived on almost every continent and I even have an ex from a old USSR country. I consider myself pretty well informed on what the REAL story is. Putin doesn't want nukes right on his border..(even though they are already there, just not publicly). He has been pushed into a corner. Quite frankly, I am surprised NATO got this far. I remember driving thru Bosnia and Croatia and thinking to myself how surreal it was (Croatians are some of the friendliest people I have ever met and the women are absolute stunners). The US needs to stand down. Ukraine isnt worth it. But I feel like there are greater powers that want this war to happen so it will happen. Get ready for it. Also, the minute this kicks off, China will make its move on Taiwan AND deploy more forces into Africa...ahhhhhhhh. People aren't even thinking about China and Africa...but people dont realize, China just deployed over 10,000 troops to Djibouti, Africa. Why would they do that??? Hmmmmm. This is about to go down. China wants Africa's mineral's "

Is this true that there are already Nato N build up like this?
If you delve into all aspects of the problem, you get a fairly extensive analysis.
We don't really know the concept of the world in Putin's mind. But when he dies, NATO will have to give him a medal.
 

SwordOfDarkness

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You're confusing things. The quid pro quo in the Cuba crisis were between US Pershing nuclear tactical ballistic missiles stationed in Turkey versus Soviet SS-4 and SS-5 which it stationed in retaliation in Cuba.

Right now, there are no nuclear weapons stationed by the US in Eastern Europe. What the US is setting up is a network of Ant-Ballistic Missile Defense systems to protect Europe from Middle East (Iranian) ballistic ,missiles. Russia claims that these missile defense systems are aimed at neutralizing its nuclear assets.
Im not refering to the cuban missile crisis, Im talking about the recent threats.
 

another_armchair

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Rumors or ?

Ukraine's ambassador in London, Vadym Prystaiko, just told the BBC his country might be willing to drop its ambition to join Nato to avert war, saying Ukraine could be 'flexible'.

"Asked if Kiev was considering shelving its plans to pursue Nato membership, despite it being written into the Ukrainian constitution, he replied: 'We might - especially being threatened like that, blackmailed by that, and pushed to it.'"
 

Optimistic Nihilist

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1)"US Nukes"

2)There are nuclear missiles in Eastern Europe. Otherwise the demand to remove those missiles or have nuclear missiles put up in cuba, would make no sense.
Yup.

Putin’s primary worry has long been that missile launchers now deployed in Romania and soon, if not already, in Poland (ostensibly for anti-missile defense) can accommodate Tomahawk cruise missiles with ranges that put Russia’s strategic forces in jeopardy. Putin has voiced that concern loudly for years.

For example, after the US-orchestrated coup in Kiev in Feb. 2014, Putin explained publicly that US/NATO plans to deploy ABM systems around Russia’s western periphery were an "even more important factor" in Moscow’s decision to annex Crimea than the prospect of Ukraine joining NATO.

At a press conference, Putin began with a reminder that Russia had been "conned" when the West promised in 1990 not to move NATO one inch eastward. Putin then pointed out that, after the US withdrew from the AMB Treaty:

"Now anti-ballistic missiles are deployed in Romania and are being set up in Poland. … These are MK-41 launchers that can launch Tomahawks. In other words, they are no longer just counter-missiles, and these assault weapons can cover thousands of kilometers of our territory. Isn’t that a threat to us?"

What about similar deployment to Ukraine? The U.S. has already agreed not to do that. Western media largely missed this, but Russia’s readout of the Dec. 30 telephone conversation between Biden and Putin included this:

“… Joseph Biden emphasized that Russia and the US shared a special responsibility for ensuring stability in Europe and the whole world and that Washington had no intention of deploying offensive strike weapons in Ukraine.” [Emphasis added.]

The US "non-paper" that was revealed by El Pais, was labeled "confidential", and small wonder. Clearly, the Biden administration did not want its concession on inspection, for example, to leak. It will come as a shock for those predicting (some of them actually hoping for) the worst. Washington’s non-paper expresses willingness to discuss "a transparency mechanism to confirm the absences of Tomahawk cruise missiles at … sites in Romania and Poland." In other words, verification; which has worked well in the past – with the INF Treaty, for example, which saw the entire class of intermediate- and short-range missiles destroyed.

Obviously there's some questions that need answering here, apart from the fact that the claim that the US won't put strategic missiles in Ukraine is bullcrap:

1) The US sold NATO on those systems because the were ostensibly a defense against Iran. Is the US now admitting that they aren't against Iran, but against Russia?

2) If they are against Iran - which no one believes - why not remove them if Russia wants then gone? Everyone knows Iran is not going to attack Europe.

3) If they are against Russia, why would the US remove the nuclear warhead option and leave the Tomahawks reduced to conventional warheads? Doesn't that remove the whole point of their being there? Does Washington really believe that 24 interceptors can defeat a Russian missile attack on Europe? A hypersonic missile attack? If so, where is the evidence? If they can't, then clearly they were put there as a first-strike strategic weapon - which is precisely what Russia believes.

4) This leads to the obvious conclusion that the US has no interest whatsoever in removing the Aegis Ashore systems. Instead, it's going to try to drag out talks in an attempt to convince Russia to allow the US to see its missile technology inside Russia. This is what "verification" means.
 

SwordOfDarkness

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Rumors or ?

Ukraine's ambassador in London, Vadym Prystaiko, just told the BBC his country might be willing to drop its ambition to join Nato to avert war, saying Ukraine could be 'flexible'.

"Asked if Kiev was considering shelving its plans to pursue Nato membership, despite it being written into the Ukrainian constitution, he replied: 'We might - especially being threatened like that, blackmailed by that, and pushed to it.'"
Finally, someone on the west side is talking sense.

When you have nothing to counter the threat, you have no option but to bend. There is only so far you can get with calling bluffs.
 

Optimistic Nihilist

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Rumors or ?

Ukraine's ambassador in London, Vadym Prystaiko, just told the BBC his country might be willing to drop its ambition to join Nato to avert war, saying Ukraine could be 'flexible'.

"Asked if Kiev was considering shelving its plans to pursue Nato membership, despite it being written into the Ukrainian constitution, he replied: 'We might - especially being threatened like that, blackmailed by that, and pushed to it.'"
Reportedly the "Ukraine will abandon its NATO ambitions" was merely a misinterpretation of Ukrainian Ambassador to Britain.

At the 1:21:00 of the interview he says that he isn't sure if the Government would push for such to avoid a greater sacrifice (the bloodbath of Ukrianian civilians during the event of a Direct War).
 

Optimistic Nihilist

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Another point to be noted as to the reason for the continued West-Russia hostilities is the "Putin psychosis" that America has adopted since a long time.

The problem with focusing on an individual as the embodiment of a nation is that one is trying to solve the wrong problem. Russia’s ongoing issues with Ukraine are larger than Vladimir Putin, and as such, far more complex in defining national goals and policy boundaries. You can’t solve a problem unless you first accurately define the problem; by tying the problem of Ukraine to one man, American policy makers are, in effect, dealing with the wrong problem.

This disconnect from reality is further exacerbated when, as is the case with the majority of so-called “Russian experts” prevalent in America today, one seeks to play amateur psychiatrist by claiming they know what goes on in the mind of Putin.
 

Super Flanker

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Even if 100% of Ukrainians speak Russian that does not make Ukraine a part of Russia or vassal of Russia. @Akim is right, majority of Indians speak English, that does that give England a right to lord over India?
No. I didn't mean it that way. Did I say that because many Ukrainians speak Russian than Ukraine is Part of Russia? Did I say anything like that anywhere? No I didn't. I just said that I have seen many people from Ukraine Speak in Russian on social media platforms like YouTube etc. That is what I was emphasizing upon.
We don't have a language problem. Speak whatever you want, but office work is only in state language.
But grammatically, these languages are close and you have to be a real moron who is not able to learn it.
Yes.
 
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