jouni
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Or maybe the editorial policy of DFI has alianated many former members.
Civil war in Ukraine
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pmaitra
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More like paid bots who cannot argue on points and resort to ad hominem attacks are being identified and called out, which might not conform to "European Values."
jouni
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Ok, but India being the next global superpower, it would be nice to have more truly global people discussing here. Actually it is pretty amazing how few foreigners are currently active. Most foreigners here seem to be Indian expats. One can always argue about different viewpoints, but still one would think that biggest power in Asia ( besides China ) would attract more people participating.More like paid bots who cannot argue on points and resort to ad hominem attacks are being identified and called out, which might not conform to "European Values."
pmaitra
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Maybe India is going to be the next power, although it will trail PRC, the point being, NATO bots have a limited number of phrases that they keep repeating. When a real human being (not just a homo sapiens) counters those points, they go back to another limited number of ad hominems. Oh, loved those screenshots. One NATO bot using two handles, and busted.
soldier of Putin
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pmaitra
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The MH17 Tribunal Was a Trap Which Russia Wisely Avoided
Western countries have done nothing to show they’re actually interested in getting to the truth of the MH17 - so why let them find a tribunal to pass judgment at?
Christopher Black | (Gorchakov Fund) | Russia Insider
Still waiting for the Dutch-led investigation report
The author is a prominent criminal and human rights lawyer who is an outspoken critic of what he says are miscarriages of justice in the prosecution of global political leaders. He is known for defending Slobodan Milosevic. He lives in Toronto, Canada.
This article first appeared on the website of the Gorchakov Fund, a non-profit foundation created and funded by the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs to serve as a platform for discussion of foreign policy issues.
The push by NATO countries for a UN tribunal to investigate and prosecute those responsible for the shooting down of Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 last year over eastern Ukraine was an intentional provocation against Russia. There was no other purpose for this NATO initiative than to use it to demonize the Russian leadership, to increase the negative war propaganda being put out by the NATO alliance and ultimately to use it as justification for further aggression against the peoples of east Ukraine and Russia.
There must be no doubt in any reasonable person’s mind that the only result of the creation of such a tribunal by the Security Council was to be an indictment against President Putin himself accusing him of some type of command responsibility. Once Putin was indicted as a war criminal, the anti-Russian propaganda in the west would have increase beyond even the intense levels it now has reached.
We saw what happened to President Milosevic of Yugoslavia when the Yugoslav tribunal indicted him with war crimes at a point during the NATO attack in 1999 when the French and Germans were looking for a political solution. The US driven indictment, arranged through their agent Louis Arbour, effectively killed a political solution since as Arbour stated, and I paraphrase, “you can’t negotiate with a war criminal.”
The same happened to Muammar Gaddafi. The International Criminal Court, again through its US marionettes in the prosecution, labelled him a war criminal and used it to justify their destruction of Libya. Both Milosevic and Gadhafi ended up dead at NATO’s hands. But they are not alone. The list includes a number of African leaders who are in the way of western interests. All labelled as war criminals when in fact it is the west that committed the crimes. The accused’s’ only crime was to resist.
A further stumbling block is the legality of such tribunals. The UN Charter does not give the Security Council the right or jurisdiction to create these ad hoc tribunals and in fact this possibility was explicitly excluded when the International Court of Justice was created which has very limited jurisdiction and none over criminal matters. Of course tribunals have been created as a matter of fact despite this problem but an illegal precedent is still illegal no matter how many times it is repeated.
It is clear that the ad hoc tribunals for Yugoslavia and Rwanda were set up during a period when Russia was under the sway of President Yeltsin and others willing to act in US interests without caring about the implications for Russian and world interests. Russia, and China lost all control over the funding, staffing and running of these tribunals from the very beginning which, from this writers’ personal experience, are controlled at all levels by western intelligence assets.
The indictments and evidence are concocted against selected accused for political and propaganda reasons which are three; to defame the leaders targeted, to justify the western aggression involved in these wars, and finally to cover up the real role of the west in these wars. The judges themselves are selected by the Americans after being interviewed to make certain their subservience is assured.
The other problem with the proposed MH17 tribunal was the claim that it was a matter under Chapter VII of the UN Charter, that is, a matter of international peace and security. The fact that the other ad hoc tribunals have been created under Chapter VII reveals their true political nature. But in the case of MH17, no such argument can be validly made since there has never been an example of a plane being brought down in any circumstances that has triggered the use of Chapter VII of the UN Charter.
If there was to be a tribunal regarding MH17 then why was there not one regarding the shooting down of the Iranian civil airliner Flight 655 in 1988, an airliner that was deliberately shot down by the US Navy. Hundreds were murdered but the Americans never demanded a tribunal to bring their officers to account. In fact the commander and crew of the USS Vincennes were given medals for this massacre. If the Soviet Union had demanded such a tribunal at the time the US would certainly have vetoed the motion.
But there is another problem with the proposal that reveals its true political nature. A court can only try those accused of a crime determined to have taken place and can only try accused against whom there is evidence.
In regard to MH17 there is the NATO propaganda on one side claiming Donbass militias were involved, aided and abetted by Russia, but without any evidence of this being produced, and, on the other hand, evidence supplied by eye witnesses, air traffic controllers, Ukrainian military pilots and Russian radar plots that indicate that it was more likely shot down by a Ukrainian government Sukhoi jet fighter.
In any case, whatever the facts really are, the investigation is not complete and not complete because the NATO alliance refuses to release information that is necessary to make a determination as to who is responsible and what their motives were.
Since NATO is not willing to offer this information to investigators now or to make it public why would they do so if a tribunal was created? They would not. They would have used the tribunal as a forum to bash Russia, fabricate evidence and used it to justify even more western aggression.
The proposal was clearly a trap for Russia and so its veto of July 29th is welcome news. Russia will face criticism from the usual suspects in NATO and more ravings by Samantha Power that it is trying to stop “justice” or is afraid of the investigation, but better to treat these false accusations with a dismissive wave of the hand than to have taken the bait and be faced with the constant harassment, and injustice that would have surely followed if such a tribunal had been approved.
Comment on the article:
Boris Jaruselski • 6 days ago
Russia, with their veto, have ENSURED, that the investigation about the MH-17 tragedy, ...no matter how flawed, MUST be completed! ...MUST!
...it very likely involve some more attempts at shifting the blame to Russia, but with all these high-calibre Russian scientists and engineers involved in finding out THEIR facts, the investigation is a pretty much foregone conclusion: the TRUTH W I L L be told!
...and that the west/NATO/US is equally determined to STOP this investigation in it's tracks, is a given! But their 'wiggle-room' is getting smaller by the day!
Western countries have done nothing to show they’re actually interested in getting to the truth of the MH17 - so why let them find a tribunal to pass judgment at?
Christopher Black | (Gorchakov Fund) | Russia Insider
Still waiting for the Dutch-led investigation report
The author is a prominent criminal and human rights lawyer who is an outspoken critic of what he says are miscarriages of justice in the prosecution of global political leaders. He is known for defending Slobodan Milosevic. He lives in Toronto, Canada.
This article first appeared on the website of the Gorchakov Fund, a non-profit foundation created and funded by the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs to serve as a platform for discussion of foreign policy issues.
The push by NATO countries for a UN tribunal to investigate and prosecute those responsible for the shooting down of Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 last year over eastern Ukraine was an intentional provocation against Russia. There was no other purpose for this NATO initiative than to use it to demonize the Russian leadership, to increase the negative war propaganda being put out by the NATO alliance and ultimately to use it as justification for further aggression against the peoples of east Ukraine and Russia.
There must be no doubt in any reasonable person’s mind that the only result of the creation of such a tribunal by the Security Council was to be an indictment against President Putin himself accusing him of some type of command responsibility. Once Putin was indicted as a war criminal, the anti-Russian propaganda in the west would have increase beyond even the intense levels it now has reached.
We saw what happened to President Milosevic of Yugoslavia when the Yugoslav tribunal indicted him with war crimes at a point during the NATO attack in 1999 when the French and Germans were looking for a political solution. The US driven indictment, arranged through their agent Louis Arbour, effectively killed a political solution since as Arbour stated, and I paraphrase, “you can’t negotiate with a war criminal.”
The same happened to Muammar Gaddafi. The International Criminal Court, again through its US marionettes in the prosecution, labelled him a war criminal and used it to justify their destruction of Libya. Both Milosevic and Gadhafi ended up dead at NATO’s hands. But they are not alone. The list includes a number of African leaders who are in the way of western interests. All labelled as war criminals when in fact it is the west that committed the crimes. The accused’s’ only crime was to resist.
A further stumbling block is the legality of such tribunals. The UN Charter does not give the Security Council the right or jurisdiction to create these ad hoc tribunals and in fact this possibility was explicitly excluded when the International Court of Justice was created which has very limited jurisdiction and none over criminal matters. Of course tribunals have been created as a matter of fact despite this problem but an illegal precedent is still illegal no matter how many times it is repeated.
It is clear that the ad hoc tribunals for Yugoslavia and Rwanda were set up during a period when Russia was under the sway of President Yeltsin and others willing to act in US interests without caring about the implications for Russian and world interests. Russia, and China lost all control over the funding, staffing and running of these tribunals from the very beginning which, from this writers’ personal experience, are controlled at all levels by western intelligence assets.
The indictments and evidence are concocted against selected accused for political and propaganda reasons which are three; to defame the leaders targeted, to justify the western aggression involved in these wars, and finally to cover up the real role of the west in these wars. The judges themselves are selected by the Americans after being interviewed to make certain their subservience is assured.
The other problem with the proposed MH17 tribunal was the claim that it was a matter under Chapter VII of the UN Charter, that is, a matter of international peace and security. The fact that the other ad hoc tribunals have been created under Chapter VII reveals their true political nature. But in the case of MH17, no such argument can be validly made since there has never been an example of a plane being brought down in any circumstances that has triggered the use of Chapter VII of the UN Charter.
If there was to be a tribunal regarding MH17 then why was there not one regarding the shooting down of the Iranian civil airliner Flight 655 in 1988, an airliner that was deliberately shot down by the US Navy. Hundreds were murdered but the Americans never demanded a tribunal to bring their officers to account. In fact the commander and crew of the USS Vincennes were given medals for this massacre. If the Soviet Union had demanded such a tribunal at the time the US would certainly have vetoed the motion.
But there is another problem with the proposal that reveals its true political nature. A court can only try those accused of a crime determined to have taken place and can only try accused against whom there is evidence.
In regard to MH17 there is the NATO propaganda on one side claiming Donbass militias were involved, aided and abetted by Russia, but without any evidence of this being produced, and, on the other hand, evidence supplied by eye witnesses, air traffic controllers, Ukrainian military pilots and Russian radar plots that indicate that it was more likely shot down by a Ukrainian government Sukhoi jet fighter.
In any case, whatever the facts really are, the investigation is not complete and not complete because the NATO alliance refuses to release information that is necessary to make a determination as to who is responsible and what their motives were.
Since NATO is not willing to offer this information to investigators now or to make it public why would they do so if a tribunal was created? They would not. They would have used the tribunal as a forum to bash Russia, fabricate evidence and used it to justify even more western aggression.
The proposal was clearly a trap for Russia and so its veto of July 29th is welcome news. Russia will face criticism from the usual suspects in NATO and more ravings by Samantha Power that it is trying to stop “justice” or is afraid of the investigation, but better to treat these false accusations with a dismissive wave of the hand than to have taken the bait and be faced with the constant harassment, and injustice that would have surely followed if such a tribunal had been approved.
Comment on the article:
Boris Jaruselski • 6 days ago
Russia, with their veto, have ENSURED, that the investigation about the MH-17 tragedy, ...no matter how flawed, MUST be completed! ...MUST!
...it very likely involve some more attempts at shifting the blame to Russia, but with all these high-calibre Russian scientists and engineers involved in finding out THEIR facts, the investigation is a pretty much foregone conclusion: the TRUTH W I L L be told!
...and that the west/NATO/US is equally determined to STOP this investigation in it's tracks, is a given! But their 'wiggle-room' is getting smaller by the day!
Last edited:
pmaitra
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Is an Attack by Kiev Imminent? Yes! So What Else Is New
Its real purpose would not be to reconquer Donbass but to draw Russia into east Ukraine
The Saker | (The Vineyard of the Saker) | Russia Insider
This article originally appeared at The Vineyard of the Saker
Novorussian officials have called a press conference today to warn about the high risks of an Ukraine government assault on Novorussia in the very near future. I have asked our translation team and friends to subtitle the video of this press conference and I hope to get it in the next 24 hours or less.
The press conference was unique in that Edward Basurin, the Deputy Defense Minister and spokesman for the Novorussian armed forces showed a map with what he described as the Ukrainian attack plans:
While I don’t doubt for one second that the Novorussians have pretty much near perfect intelligence about the situation in the government-controlled Ukraine and the plans of the junta (all that provided courtesy of the Russian GRU), I have to say that what this maps shows is extremely predictable too and not fundamentally different from what the Kiev forces tried last year: surrounding and cutting off Donetsk from Lugansk and taking control of key parts (or even all) of the Ukrainian-Russian border. Basurin also quoted the figures for the junta forces and those are in line with what others, including Cassad, have reported. The Kiev force is most definitely numerically large.
Basurin also warned that the attack would be preceded by a false flag attack organized by the junta and blamed on the Novorussians. Again, nothing new here.
To be honest, we are all getting used to ‘cry wolf’ about an impending Kiev regime attack. And this is hardly our fault. Such an attack has, indeed, been impending for a long while already and the junta’s bellicose rhetoric has only reinforced this sense of imminent danger. Furthermore, the recent visit of the British Defense Minister in Kiev only made things worse as the junta always does something ugly when western dignitaries visit Kiev. Add to this that Poroshenko is scheduled to meet with his German and French counterparts next week and the sense of crisis will be total. And logically so.
So while the tensions are real and definitely based in reality, they are also nothing new here, really. You could also legitimately that all this panic is nothing else but business as usual and that it will remain so until the regime of Nazi supporters in Kiev is finally replaced by something more or less civilized. This will inevitably happen but, alas, not in the near future.
So we are left with this exhausting and frustrating situation where yet another Kiev attack might happen anytime but where it also might not. That is the inevitable consequence of having evil, weak and insecure psychopaths in charge of an entire country.
Yesterday a rumor was started indicating that the Novorussians were planning to organize a referendum to join Russia. I still don’t know if that rumor is based in reality or not, but I will note that this kind of rumor could also serve as a perfect pretext for a Kiev attack.
It is clear to me that something has to give, probably soon. The Ukrainian economy is dead, the stocks of basic goods and energy for next winter are empty, the country is in ruins and social tensions are on the raise everywhere. I personally cannot image that regime change could happen in Kiev before at least one more attack on Novorussia. The junta really has nothing left to lose and by massing a large attack force, regardless of how ill prepared this force is, and at least the theoretical such an attack could possibility draw Russia in and, thereby, save the Nazi-friendly junta in Kiev.
Nobody in Kiev is seriously thinking that they can occupy Donetsk or Lugansk or pacify the Donbass. Everybody is pretending otherwise, but that ain’t happening. Everybody in Kiev is fully aware of the fact that the Donbass is lost forever. So I will repeat this again: the real purpose of an attack will not be to ‘reconquer’ Novorussia, it will be to draw Russia into the Donbass. How?
Well, in theory, if the junta can launch enough men and armor to overwhelm the Novorussian defenses and if these forces succeed in surrounding Donetsk and Lugansk, Russia will really have no other option than to intervene. Of course, the Russians will easily defeat the Kiev forces, in 24 hours or less, but at that point the Nazi-friendly regime in Kiev will be saved: it will be able to declare full mobilization, blame every difficulty in Russia, crush any resistance with even more brutality than before and politically force all the US allies to provide aid to the regime in Kiev. The regime itself, by the way, would be safe as, contrary to the hopes of many, the Russians will not push much beyond the current line of contact. At most they will liberate Mariupol and or Slaviansk/Kramatrosk as a “penalty” for the attack. The junta in Kiev will remain safe, at least from the Russians.
The real danger for the junta does not come from the Russian military, but from the disillusioned and impoverished Ukrainian people with whom the regime will remain “one on one” unless the Russians intervene. And as long as this situation remains, a Kiev attack is possible at any moment. Starting right now.
Its real purpose would not be to reconquer Donbass but to draw Russia into east Ukraine
The Saker | (The Vineyard of the Saker) | Russia Insider
This article originally appeared at The Vineyard of the Saker
Novorussian officials have called a press conference today to warn about the high risks of an Ukraine government assault on Novorussia in the very near future. I have asked our translation team and friends to subtitle the video of this press conference and I hope to get it in the next 24 hours or less.
The press conference was unique in that Edward Basurin, the Deputy Defense Minister and spokesman for the Novorussian armed forces showed a map with what he described as the Ukrainian attack plans:
While I don’t doubt for one second that the Novorussians have pretty much near perfect intelligence about the situation in the government-controlled Ukraine and the plans of the junta (all that provided courtesy of the Russian GRU), I have to say that what this maps shows is extremely predictable too and not fundamentally different from what the Kiev forces tried last year: surrounding and cutting off Donetsk from Lugansk and taking control of key parts (or even all) of the Ukrainian-Russian border. Basurin also quoted the figures for the junta forces and those are in line with what others, including Cassad, have reported. The Kiev force is most definitely numerically large.
Basurin also warned that the attack would be preceded by a false flag attack organized by the junta and blamed on the Novorussians. Again, nothing new here.
To be honest, we are all getting used to ‘cry wolf’ about an impending Kiev regime attack. And this is hardly our fault. Such an attack has, indeed, been impending for a long while already and the junta’s bellicose rhetoric has only reinforced this sense of imminent danger. Furthermore, the recent visit of the British Defense Minister in Kiev only made things worse as the junta always does something ugly when western dignitaries visit Kiev. Add to this that Poroshenko is scheduled to meet with his German and French counterparts next week and the sense of crisis will be total. And logically so.
So while the tensions are real and definitely based in reality, they are also nothing new here, really. You could also legitimately that all this panic is nothing else but business as usual and that it will remain so until the regime of Nazi supporters in Kiev is finally replaced by something more or less civilized. This will inevitably happen but, alas, not in the near future.
So we are left with this exhausting and frustrating situation where yet another Kiev attack might happen anytime but where it also might not. That is the inevitable consequence of having evil, weak and insecure psychopaths in charge of an entire country.
Yesterday a rumor was started indicating that the Novorussians were planning to organize a referendum to join Russia. I still don’t know if that rumor is based in reality or not, but I will note that this kind of rumor could also serve as a perfect pretext for a Kiev attack.
It is clear to me that something has to give, probably soon. The Ukrainian economy is dead, the stocks of basic goods and energy for next winter are empty, the country is in ruins and social tensions are on the raise everywhere. I personally cannot image that regime change could happen in Kiev before at least one more attack on Novorussia. The junta really has nothing left to lose and by massing a large attack force, regardless of how ill prepared this force is, and at least the theoretical such an attack could possibility draw Russia in and, thereby, save the Nazi-friendly junta in Kiev.
Nobody in Kiev is seriously thinking that they can occupy Donetsk or Lugansk or pacify the Donbass. Everybody is pretending otherwise, but that ain’t happening. Everybody in Kiev is fully aware of the fact that the Donbass is lost forever. So I will repeat this again: the real purpose of an attack will not be to ‘reconquer’ Novorussia, it will be to draw Russia into the Donbass. How?
Well, in theory, if the junta can launch enough men and armor to overwhelm the Novorussian defenses and if these forces succeed in surrounding Donetsk and Lugansk, Russia will really have no other option than to intervene. Of course, the Russians will easily defeat the Kiev forces, in 24 hours or less, but at that point the Nazi-friendly regime in Kiev will be saved: it will be able to declare full mobilization, blame every difficulty in Russia, crush any resistance with even more brutality than before and politically force all the US allies to provide aid to the regime in Kiev. The regime itself, by the way, would be safe as, contrary to the hopes of many, the Russians will not push much beyond the current line of contact. At most they will liberate Mariupol and or Slaviansk/Kramatrosk as a “penalty” for the attack. The junta in Kiev will remain safe, at least from the Russians.
The real danger for the junta does not come from the Russian military, but from the disillusioned and impoverished Ukrainian people with whom the regime will remain “one on one” unless the Russians intervene. And as long as this situation remains, a Kiev attack is possible at any moment. Starting right now.
Akim
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@ pmaitra now kindled hatred.
5 tank, and 12! artillery brigades. Additional brigades arrived from Poland and USA?
a map with what he described as the Ukrainian attack plans:
.
soldier of Putin
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The latest time at which Minsk 2 ends is in October when local elections in Donbas break down. I wouldn't be surprised if fighting restarts before then.
Akim
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Until October narcomaniac republics have yet to survive. The dollar is already more than 70 rubles.
P.S.
The Kremlin has enough and without worries. Why the occupied territory should live better than the subjects of the Federation? Why would they feed the traitors, when there is a true Russian citizens?
Last edited:
Akim
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The war in the country. I believe that now is not the time for grandiose parades.
pmaitra
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Ok, correct me if my interpretation is wrong.
So, are you saying that the Kiev regime has 5 tanks and 12 artillery pieces at its disposal?
soldier of Putin
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Currently it is cease fire. Ukraine suffers only 2 or 3 soldiers killed per day. Come October when Minsk 2 ends, fighting would resume and Ukraine would suffer more than 10 soldiers killed per day.
Akim
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Brigade. In Ukraine, only 2 tank brigades, 3 artillery brigades+ 5 artillery regiments.
You jammed? Repeat the same thing. How many times you can say the word "Delicious", the urine does not turn into lemonade.
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pmaitra
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At the time of the collapse of the USSR, one Tank Brigade had hundreds of tanks. For example, the current Kantemirovsky Brigade has about 300 main battle tanks. (@Cadian, @marrakesh, correct me if I am wrong.)
If the Kiev regime has 2 tank brigades, surely, it has, not 5 tanks, but probably 500 tanks. Let's argue that many are not operational. Even if we take 10% of these tanks to be operational, we still have 50 tanks. Personally, I still believe the Kiev regime has several hundred tanks at its disposal. When I say tanks, I an explicitly excluding BMPs, BTRs, MTLBs, BMDs, and other tracked/wheeled armoured vehicles.
Edit: Never mind. I misunderstood. You meant to say 5 tank brigades and 12 artillery brigades. Got it. That exclamation mark got me confused. Thanks.
Akim
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How did you know I annoyed by his stupidity. Find out at the beginning of the structure of the teams. UAF more tanks than is written there. But in the scheme marked 5 tank brigades.
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