Civil war in Ukraine

[bhramos]

is it Mista-S???

 

[bhramos]

Interview with residents of Slavyansk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ0ipZ1RW84

 

[VDaminov]

Moskal is not Russian, and not a citizen of Russia. This is one who serves (прислуживает) Russia.

Double standard that became part of state propaganda of Ukraine. Focus on Europe is the "will of the People", orientation on Russia - "the servants of Russia". With Eastern Ukrainians several centuries of coexistence with Russia, economic ties, joint marriages, the culture, history and heroes. But now they Muscovites, sub-human, they are not part of the Ukrainian nation.

 

[Akim]

bhramos doing the right thing. He took a neutral position and shows both sides of the conflict.

 

[Akim]

Double standard that became part of state propaganda of Ukraine. Focus on Europe is the "will of the People", orientation on Russia - "the servants of Russia". With Eastern Ukrainians several centuries of coexistence with Russia, economic ties, joint marriages, the culture, history and heroes. But now they Muscovites, sub-human, they are not part of the Ukrainian nation.

Do not wear nonsense! I grew up in Donetsk, live in Odessa. I am Russian! And no I outcast does not consider. What would I part of the country was not!

 

[VDaminov]

Do not wear nonsense! I grew up in Donetsk, live in Odessa. I am Russian! And no I outcast does not consider. What would I part of the country was not!

It is not about ethnicity. It's about cultural identity. In the South-East has risen not only ethnic Russian, but also ethnic Ukrainians.

 

[bhramos]

bhramos doing the right thing. He took a neutral position and shows both sides of the conflict.

i dont want take a side by commenting on the others posts.. it will drag..
so i only post pics and videos available on net.. dont misunderstand me or my english, i am just posting whats translated on bings..

 

[Ray]

Something like Nikolai Vasilievich Gogol?

Ukrainian? Cossack? Pole? or Russian?

All of everything?

 

[asianobserve]

Do not wear nonsense! I grew up in Donetsk, live in Odessa. I am Russian! And no I outcast does not consider. What would I part of the country was not!

Where are you in the picture Akim? (OT)

 

[Akim]

It is not about ethnicity. It's about cultural identity. In the South-East has risen not only ethnic Russian, but also ethnic Ukrainians.

Do not repeat for your leaders. You know nothing. Donbass it was a kind of enclave. There has never been representatives from other regions. Local oligarchs plundered his people. When Yanukovych betrayed us - Russian political analysts played on a temporary loss of orientation of local residents. The sobering came, but it was too late. Russian militants invaded the Donbass. Agree, that there was more a Pro-Russian direction. In the South-East it prevailed. But that was until Putler not annexed the Crimea..

 

[bhramos]

ANNA-NEWS (Donetsk) - Graham Williams from Russia Today and an operator from Anna-news have been captured near Donetsk airport during overnight fighting on July 23, 2014. Two other fighters from Donetsk Republic were captured, as well. This is the second time Graham Williams is captured by government forces in Ukraine, dissatisfied with his coverage of the conflict. 7 journalists have been killed in Ukraine so far, as it tops the list for the most dangerous countries for journalists today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZAFtXCqob4&feature=youtu.be

 

[Akim]

Where are you in the picture Akim? (OT)

Right

Military oath to give just one country.

 

[Akim]

ANNA-NEWS (Donetsk) - Graham Williams from Russia Today and an operator from Anna-news have been captured near Donetsk airport during overnight fighting on July 23, 2014. Two other fighters from Donetsk Republic were captured, as well. This is the second time Graham Williams is captured by government forces in Ukraine, dissatisfied with his coverage of the conflict. 7 journalists have been killed in Ukraine so far, as it tops the list for the most dangerous countries for journalists today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZAFtXCqob4&feature=youtu.be

They would not be released until the free in Russia of the Ukrainian journalists.

 

[bhramos]

Right

Military oath to give just one country.

your black white pic a look like alexander kalashnikov ;-)

 

[VDaminov]

Agree, that there was more a Pro-Russian direction. In the South-East it prevailed. But that was until Putler not annexed the Crimea..

15.03.2014
Donetsk requires a referendum on joining the Russian Federation

 

[apple]

What makes you feel that the US and the West are the sole custodians of the Gospel Truth?

The Soros Foundation and/or the United States government supported and even planned the Colour revolutions in order to serve Western geopolitical interests.

After the Orange Revolution several Central Asian nations took action against the Open Society Institute of George Soros with various means – Uzbekistan, for example, forced the shutting down of the OSI regional offices, while Tajikistan's state-controlled media have accused OSI-Tajikistan of corruption and nepotism. People who applauded the colour revolutions did so also

Evidence suggests U.S. government involvement including the USAID (and UNDP) which supported Internet structures called Freenet, which are known to comprise a major part of the Internet structure in at least one of the countries – Kyrgyzstan – in which one of the colour revolutions occurred.


The Guardian, a renowned British newspaper, claimed that USAID, National Endowment for Democracy, the International Republican Institute, the National Democratic Institute for International Affairs, and Freedom House are directly involved; the Washington Post and the New York Times also reported substantial Western involvement in some of these events.

Why should the GOI takes sides when all are lying through their teeth.

Completely understand the Indian government's position i.e. neutrality. Am just surprised so many Indians would be so pro Russian, on this forum, in contrast to their own government's position.

Am, somewhat, aware of who Soros is. Would be cautious, however, about linking him too closely with the US government though, particularly the current administration. Although, you're not claiming Western involvment in the Ukraine is limited to governments.

Basically, am entirely in agreeance with Asianobserve vis-a-vis the points you raised. So, quoting him can serve as my reply to you.

Yes, point is every country is free to try to influence other countries, that's what international relations are for. But the object country must decide for itself what it wants. Russia should not annex part of its territory, use intimidation or force, and dismember Ukraine just because it wants closer relations with EU. It must respect Ukraine's decision since as an independent country Ukraine is free to exercise its sovereignty or decide whom it wants to have closer ties with.

I don't have to tell you that Russian forces (with patches removed) annexed Crimea, then all these alleged Prime Minister in Ukraine rebel held areas are former Russian intelligence operatives (it even seems that a lot of the so called rebels there are Russians from Russian provinces), now weapons, tanks and it appears SAMs are flowing from Russia into rebel areas. Is EU doing it?

I am not sitting in judgement.

All I am saying that folks like @apple and @asianobserve need to realise the issue in depth before postulating that the US and the West are as clean as a whistle or purer than the snow of Mount Etna.

The US, West and Russia are all nude in the Turkish bath and are equally complicit.

Once again, Asianobserve's response can serve as my reply.

It is Ukraine determining its own course. Russia on the other hand directly invaded (annexed) part of Ukraine and is currently invading by proxy another part. Is the EU doing this?

I most certainly dont agree that the West and Russia are equally complicit in the atrocities taking place. Although, in Russia's defence, they are invested far more deeply involved into the situation. So, it's impossible for them to be as pure as snow.

Think the best we can do is to agree to disagree, as cannot see either of us changing the other's mind.

The point I am trying to make is the all member states in European Union are sovereign at this moment. The most important body of EU is the European Council:

European Council - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The European Council members are neither elected nor appointed but comprise delegates of the governments of their constituents.

The whole Ukraine mess has to be about individual countries and not about "European Union". The European Union is being led by a "certain country" and "related countries". It is not THE European Union.

Miscalculation might also be a word slowly cropping up but the "mess" done in Ukraine might have achieved what was wanted as of now.

Think the entirity of your post, which I edited (sorry about that but my own post is getting very long), should be required reading for anyone posting here about the EU and NATO. There has been some really strange misconceptions about those subjects here.

Presume by "certain country" you mean the UK and "related countries" you, mainly, mean the US. Would disagree that the EU can be effectively led, so I don't agree with some of what you've written.

But, from my understanding of your main point, I totally agree that the Council of Europe is the relevant EU organisation for foreign policy, and the EU is not NATO.

AND there is nothing that the West and EU can do to Russia via sanctions that they haven't done already. AND it is the West and the EU who are going to be the real people at the receiving end. AND Malaysia had to suffer twice by loosing two of it's planes due to actions by the US !!! Digest this.

This line sums you up.

^^^^^^^^^^^Quoted for truth^^^^^^^^

Only Putin bottom lickers will believe Russian version of events. Here's a more believable version of events:

No Cookies | Herald Sun

In a way the frantic denial from Putin is understandable and expected as this is a very serious murder by stupidity and one that will have huge diplomatic implications against them. They will try to muddle first the issue, as what it is doing now, with outlandish conspiracy theories: Ukrainians shot MH-19 down thinking it was Putin's plane; Ukrainains shot it down to pin the blame on Russia; not to mention some flat-out stupid theories like from the rebels that this whole scenario is a conspiracy by the West to put Russia and the rebels in a bad light by putting dead bodies from MH-370 to MH-17 and then shooting down the plane (the B777 must have been turned into a drone just for that idiotic exercise). The purpose of muddling the issue now is to divide the international community for enough time to stop the momentum of a concerted and more severe Western punitive actions against Russia that so far until now the EU is hesitant to impose. Eventually, when everybody is already tired of hearing charges and counter-charges some in the rebels (not Russia) will admit culpability by stupidity.

I hope Putin does not succeed against this time. We owe it to the 298 innocent people that were mudered in flight MH-17 to expose how they were murdered and to prosecute those who murdered them and those who facilitated the murder.

I agree with the article, which is succinctly written. But, you probably don't want to be quoting the Herald Sun. I am not sure if they still do, but they used to have daily photos of topless girls on page 3 of their paper. If it's not the actual worse paper in Australia, for international news, it would be very close to the bottom.

Many of western media spreading this foto claming that the man steals a ring.

Western journalists probably got the first foto from ukranian sources. Do not believe ukranian media, they are laying all the way about rebel fighters.
The man on the foto isn't stealing. He is collecting things - watch it yourself:

Six of one, a half dozen of another. Stay classy, Bhramos.

In order to bright a light defusion into the situation in our minds

How is making jokes about the innocent victims of a tragedy tolerated on this forum?

The orange revolution in Ukraine- it was the failure of the United States.

I'm with @Ray on this one, in that the present situation in the Ukraine can be considered a continuation of the orange revolution.

While, I'm not sure what McCain, etc... were up to recently in Kiev, it would be fair to say McCain isn't a fan of Russia.

Although, if he, or any others, came up with any plans, pretty sure they wouldn't have been this.

Ironically, or not depending on your point of view, it's not McCain and the Hawks who have been left holding the can. It's Obama that's been left looking like an idiot.

Am somewhat surprised that none of this thread's more cynical conspiracy thoerists haven't mentioned it, but am sure there are members of the American Republican party who are quite pleased with the way things have developed in the Ukraine.

 

[Ray]

Completely understand the Indian government's position i.e. neutrality. Am just surprised so many Indians would be so pro Russian, on this forum, in contrast to their own government's position.

Am, somewhat, aware of who Soros is. Would be cautious, however, about linking him too closely with the US government though, particularly the current administration. Although, you're not claiming Western involvment in the Ukraine is limited to governments.

Basically, am entirely in agreeance Asianobserve vis-a-vis the points you raised. So, quoting him can serve as my reply to you.

Yes, many posters would be pro Russian.

There are good reasons for that too.

The US (note not the West though) tends to bulldoze their point of view and actions as the sole view or actions that is legitimate. One is well aware that the US is no Saint and has done enough through their various agencies to destabilise the world and carry out regime changes unilaterally. And yet, they pose it is all for Democracy, Freedom and Human Rights and all that, which is actually bogus and whole lot of hot air.

Unlike US, Russia and China do not make a song and a dance over how they are God's gift to Humanity.

Therefore, even if one is piqued with them, both Russia and China are taken for what they are worth - that they are no God;s gift to Humanity and have human foibles and feet of clay.

Soros is a front for the US covert activities. He has funded many a colour revolution in Eastern Europe and that is a well known fact. So has USAID, National Endowment for Democracy. Even Ford Foundation has been complicit in CIA operations.

Dennis Kucinich, the six term Ohio Congressman and once a Presidential Candidate has come out against the US involvement in Ukraine.

Once again, Asianobserve's response can serve as my reply.

Read my reply to him.

And listen to Dennis Kucinich.

I most certainly dont agree that the West and Russia are equally complicit in the atrocities taking place. Although, in Russia's defence, they are invested far more deeply involved into the situation. So, it's impossible for them to be as pure as snow.

Think the best we can do is to agree to disagree, as cannot see either of us changing the other's mind.

I go by all views that are available and not go by predetermined dogmas.

 

[Ray]

US Funding Violation of US Law

The original Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 forbidding such assistance was signed into law on September 4, 1961 by President John F. Kennedy. However, as with President Barack Obama's and Secretary of State John Kerry's decision to provide Ukraine's coup-installed government with $1 billion in loan guarantees, the Public Law 87-195's enforcement has been subject to inconsistent application by a number of U.S. administrations, including the present one"¦ Obama, like Presidents George W. Bush and Bill Clinton before him, have been «artful dodgers» in granting waivers outside the scope of the letter and spirit of the Foreign Assistance Act to some countries where it was later discovered that U.S. intelligence played a part in the coups.

The election of Yanukovych on February 14, 2010 over his opponent, the coup-supporting Yulia Tymoshenko, was deemed «free and fair» by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE). The Ukrainian Central Election Commission certified the results of the vote, which saw Yanukovych best Tymoshenko 48.9 percent to 45.4 percent. Yanukovych received congratulations from President Obama, British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu, Estonian President Toomas Hendrik Ilves, European Union Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso, and NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen.

On March 11, the Russian Foreign Ministry released the following statement: «...in accordance with the amendments introduced to the 1961 law (Foreign Assistance Act) a few years ago the provision of foreign assistance is prohibited to 'the government of any country whose duly elected head of government is deposed by military coup or decree.' The relevant provision is contained in 22 US Code § 8422... Thus, by all criteria the provision of funds to the illegitimate [Ukrainian] regime, which seized power by force, is unlawful and goes beyond the boundaries of the US legal system».

It cannot be emphasized more that there are no presidential or national security waivers under the terms of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961. Any such waivers are conducted unconstitutionally by the U.S. president and in violation of federal law.

The Foreign Assistance Act also stipulates that economic assistance to a nation suffering a coup can only be restored after the nation returns to rule by a democratically-elected government.

http://www.strategic-culture.org/pv...gnore-us-law-aiding-ukraine-coup-leaders.html

The CIA-Soros Partnership

A curious link between George Soros and the CIA has emerged as a result of disclosures of funding of a Malaysian media organization by the National Endowment for Democracy. It turns out it was NED funding and Soros funding.

NED has long been known as a CIA front. In the clip below, one time CIA case officer Phil Agee describes the developments that led up to the formation of NED and how NED operates.


This is all noteworthy with regard to Soros, since the Malaysiakini, a Malaysian media organization, has just admitted receiving funds from NED.

The funding has been apparently been going on for many years and a journalist now discloses that he quit working for Malaysiakini because of its then secret funding by NED and Soros.

Y.L. Chong quit from Malaysiakini as its news editor more than a decade ago when the news portal management refused to admit that they were getting funds from NED and Soros.

"I told Malaysiakini 11 years ago to come clean, and not hide such information from our subscribers and readers.

"I decided to throw in my resignation as I could not toe the line and keep the Soros link under wraps," he said in an interview with Malaysia's The Star.

Chong revealed all this several years ago in his blog called ww.desiderata2000.blogspot.com.

"I was then news editor, and hence privy to information raised at Malaysiakini's meetings, and I had learned that indeed Malaysiakini had received an initial 10% down payment of RM188,000 for a 10% interest in Malaysiakini," he added.

Chong said he quit after confronting the two Malaysiakini's top guns - Steven Gan and Premesh Chandran - and the two refused to publicly admit to receiving funds through Media Development Loan Fund run by the Open Society Institute, a well-known international unit linked to Soros.

"In fact Gan said it would be the death of Malaysiakini if they admitted to receiving funding from Soros,'' he said.

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2012/09/the-cia-soros-partnership.html

 

[Akim]

15.03.2014
Donetsk requires a referendum on joining the Russian Federation

It is 30 thousand. 100 thousand crowd fills the Artem st., as far as the shop "Moscow". In Donbass many wanted Putler joined it to Russia (Crimean variant). However, Putler, Donbass as the subjects of the Federation are not needed.
This depressed regions. There is only pensioners live as much as the entire population of Crimea.
Transnistria exists on Russian handouts.
Donbass - economically not need Russia. Don't need mine, metallurgy, chemistry. Only machine building.
Those people in ecstasy. They did not understand the practical things
There is a difference July and March. In March Lenin sq. collected 30 thousand. In July, in the same square was about several hundreds.

 

[Akim]

Ukrainian army liberated the Pervomaisk.

Today was shot down by two su-25. At an altitude of 5,200 meters. Presumably SAM "OSA" or "Pantsir-S". The pilots ejected.