China's first indigenous carrier CV17

[SexyChineseLady]

Vikrant is very much capable of carrier ops currently even without MF-Star. You can't do jack during our downtime anyway. That's the reality. You made too many enemies around and don't have the balls to send a carrier strike group so far away from home anytime soon. Your toys don't mean anything if you can't bring them here to play with. Cause we sure as hell won't sail to your place.

Delusional. It doesn't even have arrester cables! Nothing fixed wing is going to take off or land on the thing today or the next or the day after that. Come on! Any please update in the Vikrant thread

 

[jai jaganath]

Please start that conversation when it happens. My guess is that the PLAN would not plan a refit, even one that goes on for a year, that leaves them without an operational carrier for years on end like the Indian Navy

Again being nonsensical
If u have 1 carrier then what will u do think logically if u r used to
If u have 1 carrier then if it goes to refit then what could u do
Wait for Vikrant to be operational then u will have one in refit and other in sea
That's the benefit of 2 AC which we will have in less than 1 year

 

[jai jaganath]

Extreme use

So if it's going to refit after 3 years then it's understandable that it wasn't completely equipped during it's commissioning doesn't that prove that plan Admirals are not well planned
U should work on it

 

[J20!]

Vikrant is very much capable of carrier ops currently even without MF-Star. You can't do jack during our downtime anyway. That's the reality. You made too many enemies around and don't have the balls to send a carrier strike group so far away from home anytime soon. Your toys don't mean anything if you can't bring them here to play with. Cause we sure as hell won't sail to your place.

Show us pics of Vikrant operating jets the.

No? Because Vikrant is NOT OPERATIONAL. It doesn't have its main radar installed. Is the entire flight complex even installed yet?

Its been commissioned just for show to manage expectations of the populace, just like the half finished Hull (no island) in 2013, only to be "relaunched" later.

Get back to us with this silly comparison when Vikrant is actually flying Migs off her.

 

[J20!]

So if it's going to refit after 3 years then it's understandable that it wasn't completely equipped during it's commissioning doesn't that prove that plan Admirals are not well planned
U should work on it

No. She went back into the dockyard for re-surfacing of the flight deck and changes to the sensor suite.

The flight deck resurfacing included the addition of padding along tgre arrestor wires to prolong cable life and mitigate risk of wire snaps. That's a true indication of operations intensity.

As @chineselady has shown, there is evident wear on the flightdeck prior to its return to dock, evidence of actual regular flight ops.

It's regular maintenance. Not a midlife refit as you're claiming. That's what maintenance planning looks like, not 2 year unavailability.

A midlife refit would involve prime mover refurbishment or replacement and lasts longer than 3 months. Even in China.

 

[jai jaganath]

No. She went back into the dockyard for re-surfacing of the flight deck and changes to the sensor suite.

It's regular maintenance. Not a midlife refit as you're claiming. A midlife refit involve prime mover refurbishment or replacement and lasts longer than 3 months. Even in China.

Wasn't it poor planning that such a huge difference as being shown by your friend is visible
Wouldn't it be better if they would have done it earlier and then commissioned a full fleged AC without going for refit for 3 months and losing its operational duty
If no then -
Then why is your friend comparing it to midlife refit of Vikramaditya

 

[J20!]

Wasn't it poor planning that such a huge difference as being shown by your friend is visible
Wouldn't it be better if they would have done it earlier and then commissioned a full fleged AC without going for refit for 3 months and losing its operational duty
If no then -
Then why is your friend comparing it to midlife refit of Vikramaditya

It's PLANNED flight deck maintenance. If you're actually using your carrier, 3 years of flight ops would require resurfacing work no?

And the addition of arrestor wire mats demonstrates both new developments influenced by regular ops and rapid innovation.

Vikramaditya went in for a year long refit after how long? 3, 4 years after commissioning. It's been 2 years now.

Whenever Vikrant actually starts flight ops, she'll have to qualify pilots all over again.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

So if it's going to refit after 3 years then it's understandable that it wasn't completely equipped during it's commissioning doesn't that prove that plan Admirals are not well planned
U should work on it

The Vikramaditya was in refit in 2016 from September to November. She was commissioned only in 2014

It had been out of service on another refit since 2020 and counting. Why not plan the big refit until after Vikrant can fully accept planes?

As for Shandong, again it went into dock when the Liaoning was launching sortie after sortie off Okinawa. So the PLAN was never short of a carrier.

And again the Shandong went in to repave and enhance the flight deck after intense use.

Now, there will always be more and better to enhance a carrier with especially for China which does the incremental approach to upgrades (see Type 052B/C/D/DL or WS-10A/B2/B3/C.)

We see this shortly after Shandong return to service and again was in intense operational use:

Those are pads to protect the deck from the arrester wires being dragged across it.

The tempo of operations on Chinese carriers are many many times that of Indian ones but you won't see the PLAN without a working carrier at any time much less two years!

 

[jai jaganath]

It's PLANNED flight deck maintenance. If you're actually using your carrier, 3 years of flight ops would require resurfacing work no?

And the addition of arrestor wire mats demonstrates both new developments influenced by regular ops and rapid innovation.

Vikramaditya went in for a year long refit after how long? 3, 4 years after commissioning. It's been 2 years now.

Whenever Vikrant actually starts flight ops, she'll have to qualify pilots all over again.

Exactly then why is your fried comparing it to Vikramaditya's midlife refit
That's the reason I was keeping that point away for many days
Again I am repeating it 16th time that refit was planned for 1 year but due to covid and fire incident the refit got delayed
Coming to qualification of our pilots then they are constantly being trained on shore based facility

 

[jai jaganath]

The Vikramaditya was in refit in 2016 from September to November. She was commissioned only in 2014

It had been out of service on another refit since 2020 and counting. Why not plan the big refit until after Vikrant can fully accept planes?

As for Shandong, again it went into dock when the Liaoning was launching sortie after sortie off Okinawa. So the PLAN was never short of a carrier.

And again the Shandong went in to repave and enhance the flight deck after intense use.

Now, there will always be more and better to enhance a carrier with especially for China which does the incremental approach to upgrades (see Type 052B/C/D/DL or WS-10A/B2/B3/C.)

We see this shortly after Shandong return to service and again was in intense operational use:
View attachment 182615
View attachment 182614

View attachment 182616

Those are pads to protect the deck from the arrester wires being dragged across it.

The tempo of operations on Chinese carriers are many many times that of Indian ones but you won't see the PLAN without a working carrier at any time much less two years!

Then why were u comparing it to mid life upgrades of Vikramaditya
Coming to previous argument when u have one AC in service then u have to be without AC and I hope it isn't something of extraordinary understanding But again keep repeating the same points as it fits your agenda
Making fool of yourself

 

[J20!]

Exactly then why is your fried comparing it to Vikramaditya's midlife refit
That's the reason I was keeping that point away for many days
Again I am repeating it 16th time that refit was planned for 1 year but due to covid and fire incident the refit got delayed
Coming to qualification of our pilots then they are constantly being trained on shore based facility

1 minute you're ridiculing CV17 for a 3 month maintenance period at Dailan Shipyard after 3 years of operation then the next yet saying Vikramaditya's 1 YEAR (TURNED 2 YEAR) midlife refit is normal and planned???

Double standards much? 1 seems to be planned and the other serious defect resolution. No?

 

[jai jaganath]

1 minute you're ridiculing CV17 for a 3 month maintenance period at Dailan Shipyard after 3 years of operation then the next yet saying Vikramaditya's 1 YEAR (TURNED 2 YEAR) midlife refit is normal and planned???

Double standards much? 1 seems to be planned and the other serious defect resolution. No?

No u r having understanding problem as usual
It was your friend who compared to refit of cv-17 to mlr of Vikramaditya
I was saying or pointing your friend's hypocrisy
I am not ridiculing 3 years maintenance upgrades as we itself had it in 2016 after 3 years of service (2013)
Start reading properly

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Then why were u comparing it to mid life upgrades of Vikramaditya
Coming to previous argument when u have one AC in service then u have to be without AC and I hope it isn't something of extraordinary understanding But again keep repeating the same points as it fits your agenda
Making fool of yourself

The fools are the ones coming to this thread claiming that India is better at everything when they don't even have an operational carrier!

That in the end is the final arbiter. If something breaks out now, India has nothing that can launch aircraft. Why wouldn't anyone sensible not bring that up in this discussion?

 

[J20!]

No u r having understanding problem as usual
It was your friend who compared to refit of cv-17 to mlr of Vikramaditya
I was saying or pointing your friend's hypocrisy
I am not ridiculing 3 years maintenance upgrades as we itself had it in 2016 after 3 years of service (2013)
Start reading properly

No, it was YOUR friend comparing Vikramaditya's disastrous mid-life refit ( 4 or 5 years afyer commisioning) with the 3 month resurfacing of CV17.

View attachment 182604
what within less than 3 years ??
Vikramaditya had an accident, whats your excuse ? poor planning ?
what 3 year old AC goes into a "major refit" within 3 years of commissioning. Wait you mean it was incomplete at commissioning ?
*gasps*

 

[jai jaganath]

No, it was YOUR friend comparing Vikramaditya's disastrous mid-life refit ( 4 or 5 years afyer commisioning) with the 3 month resurfacing of CV17.

Pls visit the post of your friend which @Corvus Splendens qouted

 

[jai jaganath]

The fools are the ones coming to this thread claiming that India is better at everything when they don't even have an operational carrier!

That in the end is the final arbiter. If something breaks out now, India has nothing that can launch aircraft. Why wouldn't anyone sensible not bring that up in this discussion?

I don't give a damn who come and speak their view its their job to defend and counted that doesn't mean u will write one sided view without understanding the ground
We have our own achievements wrt our economy, social, political status u have yours

 

[J20!]

Pls visit the post of your friend which @Corvus Splendens qouted

This one?

The Shandong actually went into a major refit in April for three months and that was when the Liaoning was launching J-15s off Taiwan and Okinawa.

You should plan to have at least one carrier operational shouldn't you? And not end up without a carrier for years on end like the Indian Navy.

Shandong was back to prowling the seas during the Pelosi thing in August with some new anti-wear pads to protect deck from scratching by arrester cables.

There is nothing controversial. CV17 DID GO INTO DOCK for 3 mo ths. Why does that warrant comparison with Vikramaditya's 2 year midlife refit?

Stop comparing if you don't want to be corrected.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

I don't give a damn who come and speak their view its their job to defend and counted that doesn't mean u will write one sided view without understanding the ground
We have our own achievements wrt our economy, social, political status u have yours

How is it one sided to point out that India has no operational carrier when they come to this CV-17 thread to tell us India is better?

No rational debater could possibly leave that out, whatever the ground realities.

This is exactly the same situation as someone from Sudan telling us that Sudan has a better carrier arm and we tell them "You have no operational carrier at this moment" and they say "you don't understand the ground."

Well, India does not have an operation carrier and hadn't one for two years!!!

Not our place to figure out the ground realities of India we only know India isn't launching aircraft from ships so it can't possibly be better. (Not even taking in the fact that the Chinese ships are bigger and better laid out and the J-15 is bigger and has better range, load and a shorter take off distance.)

 

[J20!]

I don't give a damn who come and speak their view its their job to defend and counted that doesn't mean u will write one sided view without understanding the ground
We have our own achievements wrt our economy, social, political status u have yours

It's their "job" to post counter factual BS? What are you defending?

Being factual is not being "one-sided". F15 is bigger and more capable than Tejas. Thats just a fact. But if some joker here claims Tejas is better than J20 are we not allowed to correct them? WTF?

Are vikrant and Vikramaditya not 20 000tons smaller than CV16/17? Do they not have smaller available decks space, hanger space, ammo and fuel stores than CV16/17?

Are both carriers' flight decks not configured differently than CV16/17? Do those differences not lend advantages in sortie generation to the Chinese carriers?

Are the sortie rates generated by CV16/17 not higher than Vikramaditya's figures over its lifetime?

Is the Vikrant NOT 13 years in development? Is MF Star installed yet or not? No it isn't. Should we pretend Vikrant is in service and capable of operating aircraft when it doesn't even have arrestor wires yet? It hasn't even had flight trials yet, but we're supposed to pretend it's operational without question?

Why try claiming "everything built in India is better than Chinese manufacturing?"

Post a picture of CV17 or the new Fujian, or J35 and the usual trolls will crawl into the thread to falsely claim that Vikrant or Vikramaditya or Tejas are somehow better, ignoring all facts to the contrary.

If you are expecting objective members not to correct the BS, then you're going to be disappointed. Be pro India all you want, but facts are facts.

An Indian flag doesn't make your platforms better or more advanced. Why should anyone have to pretend and refrain from stating the obvious?

 

[jai jaganath]

This one?



There is nothing controversial. CV17 DID GO INTO DOCK for 3 mo ths. Why does that warrant comparison with Vikramaditya's 2 year midlife refit?

Stop comparing if you don't want to be corrected.

He/She compared the refit of cv-17 to mlu of Vikramaditya
I didn't start it
Then it was u who got dragged
Even that's nog my fault