China's first indigenous carrier CV17

[jai jaganath]

How is it one sided to point out that India has no operational carrier when they come to this CV-17 thread to tell us India is better?

No rational debater could possibly leave that out, whatever the ground realities.

This is exactly the same situation as someone from Sudan telling us that Sudan has a better carrier arm and we tell them "You have no operational carrier at this moment" and they say "you don't understand the ground."

Well, India does not have an operation carrier and hadn't one for two years!!!

Not our place to figure out the ground realities of India we only know India isn't launching aircraft from ships so it can't possibly be better. (Not even taking in the fact that the Chinese ships are bigger and better laid out and the J-15 is bigger and has better range, load and a shorter take off distance.)

I have repeatedly said his opinions are not mine the moment u said that we are not having carriers for our failure I started posting and gave the points which u don't want to discuss on that but spam with same one sided sentence that we don't have an carrier operational as its in refit and we only have 1 full fledged carrier so that's obvious that it will not be operational
It's not fault on our Navy that it's under mlu during our argument even u will fave mlu that doesn't mean that ur Navy isn't a good planner
It not the fault of our Navy if shipyard couldn't deliver due to hurdles as we are new to shipbuilding
Ur shipbuilding is not new so ur Navy has 2 carriers but we have one so arguing on obvious and pointing out unnecessary points that doesn't make sense
Neither u have to understand but if u speak senseless then anyone will definitely answer u

 

[jai jaganath]

It's their "job" to post counter factual BS? What are you defending?

Being factual is not being "one-sided". F15 is bigger and more capable than Tejas. Thats just a fact. But if some joker here claims Tejas is better than J20 are we not allowed to correct them? WTF?

Are vikrant and Vikramaditya not 20 000tons smaller than CV16/17? Do they not have smaller available decks space, hanger space, ammo and fuel stores than CV16/17?

Are both carriers' flight decks not configured differently than CV16/17? Do those differences not lend advantages in sortie generation to the Chinese carriers?

Are the sortie rates generated by CV16/17 not higher than Vikramaditya's figures over its lifetime?

Is the Vikrant NOT 13 years in development? Is MF Star installed yet or not? No it isn't. Should we pretend Vikrant is in service and capable of operating aircraft when it doesn't even have arrestor wires yet? It hasn't even had flight trials yet, but we're supposed to pretend it's operational without question?

Why try claiming "everything built in India is better than Chinese manufacturing?"

Post a picture of CV17 or the new Fujian, or J35 and the usual trolls will crawl into the thread to falsely claim that Vikrant or Vikramaditya or Tejas are somehow better, ignoring all facts to the contrary.

If you are expecting objective members not to correct the BS, then you're going to be disappointed. Be pro India all you want, but facts are facts.

An Indian flag doesn't make your platforms better or more advanced. Why should anyone have to pretend and refrain from stating the obvious?

I am not defending anyone everyone can give their explanation even sometimes Chinese members pointout baseless things in Indian forum but even they are given chance
Ask the guy who compared j-20 to tejas why r u unnecessarily inserting AC here
Who said vik and vikky are larger I didn't
I am arguing wwherever there is some factual error or if someone is quoting be
When did I say Vikrant is in full fledged capability
If they have commisioned first bcoz they need to vaiplidate few other non flight parameters faster which would have been done post completion
Who is saying it's fully operational even Navy isn't forget us where we believe in official confirmation
If u want to argue on Shandong or Liaoning better than Vikrant u can go ahead members of expertise will answer but needlessly saying we have delayed as poor planning is foolish bcoz u aren't aware of our challenges
Of u still want to give opinions without understanding other's problems then better give it in empty room not here
No one denies facts as it will be discussed but rather not listening and keeping repeating the same point which has been answered is stupid
Now post whatever shit u want yur points have been answered wrt our challenges capabilities and understanding
If u want to compare systems go technical not on planning or oobjectives or doctrine
My explanations are done if u want to quote or spam its upto @mods

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Well the arguments here actually got me into looking at things I heard a long time ago but didn't pursue such as the very short takeoff distance of the SU-33/J-15 platform and that the Russians had claimed that it could fly with a full weapons and fuel load. To be honest, I've always dismissed the proposals that the J-15 could take off with full load from short! Now coming across the Yefim's quotes, I see they have some pretty solid ground to think so.

So thanks


Anyways, this intrigues me!

The J-15 is using a far lower burn (less fuel consumption) it seems as evident by the jet plume compared to even the SU-33. And it is apparent from the first J-15 in yellow primer who flew off Chinese carriers with the same AL-31 engine. Why? Lighter aircraft? Better lift?

 

[Emperor Kalki]

It's not a sense of superiority. It's correcting erroneous posts based on nationalism alone. If the correction disturbs you more than the physics defying BS, then thats a problem for yiu not me. Why make or encourage false claims?

I thought I would not intervene in this anymore as I knew too much BS would be thrown back and forth beyond any point of return by both sides after that post, but then I saw this.

So let me tell you one thing. Nobody does a barrel roll at stall speed. I hope you got it.

There is no difference betweens Indians here on the forum trying to belittle the chinese with stupid arguments and what people like you are trying to do. Let me break it to you. Both are nationalism. Bye

 

[SexyChineseLady]

So let me tell you one thing. Nobody does a barrel roll at stall speed. I hope you got it.

Most planes can't do a barrel roll -- or much of anything else -- at stall

 

[Emperor Kalki]

Most planes can't do a barrel roll -- or much of anything else -- at stall

Tell that to him, dude. Not to me

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Tell that to him, dude. Not to me

Ah but the J-20 could perform them at near stall which is what makes those videos exciting

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Back on topic.

CV-17 Shandong is currently roaming the South China Seas:

 

[J20!]

CCTV segment that includes secgements of the J15's manufacturing base and the first footage of a PLANAF J15 with the WS10B. PLANAF J16 also featured.:

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Found a picture of a J-15 with full afterburners at launch during day time! The flume is very evident.

It is rare because most of the time, the J-15 launch from even the short positions without much of plume during days. The AB flame is there at night launches. (Maybe as an extra safety precaution?)

But but the flume is almost never seen distinctively like above during days. The J-15 is getting into the air without full AB, that indicates surplus power:

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Very interesting interesting that you can catch a J-15 from the deck of the Shandong on satellite! From the cruise on Nov 20th.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

CV-17 Shandong's recent cruise in South China Sea:

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Day and night:

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Landing on CV-17 with a Z-9!

 

[SexyChineseLady]

CV-17 Shandong in the South China Sea again (while CV-16 is in Western Pacific.)

China probably has the most active carrier program in the world after the US. At least one of the carriers are on cruise practically every month and often like now both of them are at sea at the same time.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Three years of service already! Shandong was the first Asian built carrier to be put into servuce since WWII!

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Two Chinese carriers at sea right now. Very hard for Chinese to imagine this just 10 years ago. And in a couple of years, there could be three carriers plowing the sea at once!

 

[SexyChineseLady]

The CBG in the SCS at the moment:

 

[SexyChineseLady]

According to government and military officials in two Asian countries, the intercept occurred while the PLA was conducting joint naval-air exercises in the South China Sea. “As part of that exercise, a strike group led by the Shandong [aircraft carrier] simulated attacks on a US Navy formation,” one of the officials said.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

These are photos from the latest CV-17 exercises in the South China Seas where J-15s from the Shandong were accused by the US of performing mock attacks on USN formations.

Lot of J-15s operating both day and night!

Night certifications are done for new pilots on each cruise for both Liaoning and Shandong!