China has military presence in Gilgit-Baltistan (PoK)
- Thread starter Daredevil
- Start date
If true then this is the first major policy disaster that the Chinese may have stepped in to. If one goes thru the history of their conflicts the in all cases wherein they extended support to friendly regimes (Vietcong/Cambodia/Myanmaar & Pakistan), they were always supporting these regimes when on a defensive mode. This will be the first incident wherein they will be supporting a friendly regime in an official capaity in an offensive mode. That is when going gets difficult. If the news is true then this will be the first time that the Chinese will be exposing themselves for a free for all against them.
This is surely a major change in their policy and it had to come at one time or the other. With their new found strength of economy, it is only expected that they will move to consolidate their hold on the regional / strategic scenario. There is no other headache for the Communist party of China today except for India.
However, probably they have started biting more than they can chew!! imagine that any insurgency in POK will now be directed also towards the Chinese and they are clearly fair game now and on top, any of their offensive actions in supressing the POK insurgents will also echo in their own province of Xinxiang!!!!
This is surely a major change in their policy and it had to come at one time or the other. With their new found strength of economy, it is only expected that they will move to consolidate their hold on the regional / strategic scenario. There is no other headache for the Communist party of China today except for India.
However, probably they have started biting more than they can chew!! imagine that any insurgency in POK will now be directed also towards the Chinese and they are clearly fair game now and on top, any of their offensive actions in supressing the POK insurgents will also echo in their own province of Xinxiang!!!!
youngindian
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 6, 2009
- Messages
- 1,365
- Likes
- 77
India may resort to stapled visa to Tibetans .
India may resort to stapled visa to Tibetans: India : India Today
India may resort to stapled visa to Tibetans: India : India Today
In my view, the best thing will be to ban / raise duties on the imports from China + increase duties on export of raw materials to China. Trust me, nothing will make them take notice more than the loss of business. Specially when considering that their biggest exports today are capital equipment and India is projected to be the largest user of these in the whole world at least for the next 25 years!!!!
It is better to pinch where it hurts them the most and then of course we could ultimately see that friendship is most fickle to money....
SHASH2K2
New Member
- Joined
- May 10, 2010
- Messages
- 5,711
- Likes
- 730
Finally someone woke up after a tight slap . anyways its better to be late than never so its a good beginning. Hope to further increase the diplomatic and commercial offensive .
SHASH2K2
New Member
- Joined
- May 10, 2010
- Messages
- 5,711
- Likes
- 730
Chinese presence in PoK not confirmed yet: India
looks like GOI is hell bent on downplaying the incidence .
looks like GOI is hell bent on downplaying the incidence .
LETHALFORCE
Mod
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2009
- Messages
- 29,923
- Likes
- 48,722
Invite the Uighur leaders to India to tell their story to the world.
anoop_mig25
Senior Member
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2009
- Messages
- 5,807
- Likes
- 3,151
welll i do not have any great military technical knowledge but if tunnels has been detected then this has been major loss for Chinese army and now US satellite would be continuously monitoring that region and any major movement would be know. here Chinese failed in their goal of kipping tunnel hidden
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2010
- Messages
- 7,869
- Likes
- 23,271
^^ What US does is least of our concerns since the problem is PLA taking OUR territory. No one is going to fight for us and bleed for us in the war. We have to do it ourselves and the first offensive step is to politically show some spine, which our government is not.
anoop_mig25
Senior Member
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2009
- Messages
- 5,807
- Likes
- 3,151
^^ yep true but to prevent china from becoming leader american would do anything . would always noitify Indian as well other nation that are begin afraid of chinese rise.american would likely to use same theory which is begin currently pursed by Chinese itself i.e to remain their enemy engaged with its neighbor.
also let me make correction our satellite would also me monitoring the same region
also let me make correction our satellite would also me monitoring the same region
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2009
- Messages
- 24,324
- Likes
- 11,757
Apparently some china watchers discount the report as OpEd badly written. they say that pla has no presence in PoK and that there is a separate force outside the ambit of PLA called PAP or another called XJ force that may be involved. They are an independent corps of engineers. They say that the PLA has a separate artillery engineers corps that is in charge of making missile sites.
SHASH2K2
New Member
- Joined
- May 10, 2010
- Messages
- 5,711
- Likes
- 730
Truth is that eventually its upto India to fight its war . No one will come to fight for us . There may or may not be help from other quarters but initiative has to come from us. Everybody worships rising sun and we need to show world that we are capable of doing so. USA or other powers will come to help us only if they find that we have it in us. we should mount offensive on china from all ends. Be it political, economical as well as military .
SHASH2K2
New Member
- Joined
- May 10, 2010
- Messages
- 5,711
- Likes
- 730
Chinese Troops Move Into Pakistan, Western Media Hardly Bats An Eye
Wonder why western media is not at all publishing this news. Is it to protect their blue eyed boy Pakistan? May be they think that its not a correct time to portray Pakistan as bad country as it will affect flood rescue or it is great geopolitics that's going on in background.
Wonder why western media is not at all publishing this news. Is it to protect their blue eyed boy Pakistan? May be they think that its not a correct time to portray Pakistan as bad country as it will affect flood rescue or it is great geopolitics that's going on in background.
youngindian
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 6, 2009
- Messages
- 1,365
- Likes
- 77
Visa Row Won't Affect Sino-India Military Ties: Chinese Experts :emot15:
'Visa row won't affect Sino-India ties' - Hindustan Times
http://business-standard.com/india/...india-military-ties-chinese-experts/106959/on
'Visa row won't affect Sino-India ties' - Hindustan Times
http://business-standard.com/india/...india-military-ties-chinese-experts/106959/on
SHASH2K2
New Member
- Joined
- May 10, 2010
- Messages
- 5,711
- Likes
- 730
We need to show those stooges that it will affect the ties and then they will start taking us seriously. Though its already part of my signature but I will type it again.
कà¥à¤·à¤®à¤¾ सोà¤à¤¤à¥€ उस à¤à¥à¤œà¤‚ग को जिसके पास गरल हो .
उसको कà¥à¤¯à¤¾ जो दंतहीन विषहीन सरल हो .
The mercy & forgiveness can be bestowed by everyone
But the glory resides only for the snake with the venom,
What value is the mercy of the soft & kind,
Like the snake who lost his poison, and its teeth been grind.
youngindian
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 6, 2009
- Messages
- 1,365
- Likes
- 77
India to verify China`s presence in Gilgit: MEA
India to verify reports of Chinese presence in Gilgit: MEA
India to verify reports of Chinese presence in Gilgit: MEA
If China moves into PoK, we should protest loudly so as to give it publicity, but take no hard action. This will weaken Pak noises on Indian Kashmir and even the Kashmiris will see that Pakistan does not care about Kashmiris.
5/10 years from now when the world has accepted that PoK is under Chinese control and Indian Kashmiris have quietened down, we will raise the heat over PoK with China. Since China has no real justification to be there anyway, they will find it more difficult to defend than Pak.
This move by China is actually good for India if used the right way. Hopefully this will also turn Paki Taliban against China.
5/10 years from now when the world has accepted that PoK is under Chinese control and Indian Kashmiris have quietened down, we will raise the heat over PoK with China. Since China has no real justification to be there anyway, they will find it more difficult to defend than Pak.
This move by China is actually good for India if used the right way. Hopefully this will also turn Paki Taliban against China.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2010
- Messages
- 10,809
- Likes
- 4,619
And nutjobs want azadi...when china will start smashing them then they'll start begging India.
I bet none in kashmir know of presence of chinese troops....why is our media silent ? because it will show local kashmiri that they are being betrayed by seperatist idiots.
I bet none in kashmir know of presence of chinese troops....why is our media silent ? because it will show local kashmiri that they are being betrayed by seperatist idiots.
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2010
- Messages
- 111
- Likes
- 18
JFR Jacob on Chinese troops in Gilgit
JFR Jacob on Chinese troops in Gilgit
2010-08-31 00:08:21
Gen JFR Jacob, the hero of the 1971 India Pakistan war, warns that unless India wakes up to the recent developments in Gilgit Baltistan, it may be too late.
The Dragon has emerged from its lair with a vengeance.
A senior Indian army officer was denied an official Chinese visa on the grounds that he was commanding in Jammu and Kashmir, a disputed territory according to the Chinese.
The Chinese occupy considerable amount of territory in Ladakh, which they captured in 1962 . They are now slowly making inroads into the Indus Valley and other areas. In 1963, Pakistan had illegally ceded some 5,000 square km (2000 sq miles) in the area of the Karakoram to China.
Pakistan is now reported to have handed over control of the major part of the northern territories to China. Media reports indicate that there are some 10,000 Chinese soldiers based in Gilgit on the pretext of protecting the widening work on the Karakoram Highway and the construction of a railway line to link east Tibet with the Pakistani port of Gwadar in the Gulf of Oman.
The Russians in the 19th and 20th centuries dreamt of a getting warm water port on the Arabian Sea. The Chinese seem well on the way to fulfilling this Russian dream.
In a further move to encircle India by sea, the Chinese are establishing naval and air bases on Myanmar's Ramree Island in the Bay of Bengal. (Incidentally, I took part in the amphibous assault on Ramree Island during World War II). These bases on Ramree Island will help the Chinese in their endeavors to control the upper Bay of Bengal and pose a threat to Kolkata, Vishakapatnam and the Andamans.
The presence of Chinese troops in Gilgit is a matter of great concern. During the Kargil conflict, the five battalions of the intruding paramilitary Northern Rifles were maintained from Gilgit and thence from Skardu. There is a good road from Gilgit to Skardu. In pre-Partition days, road communications to Gilgit were along the Kargil-Skardu-Gilgit route. This section can easily be restored in a short period of time.
The reported presence of Chinese troops in Gilgit poses a serious threat to Indian road communications to Ladakh running through Kargil.
Another matter of concern is the increased Chinese interest in the Indus Valley. The easiest approach to Leh is along this valley. The Chinese have not only shown interest in the Indus Valley but also the Karakoram Pass between India and China.
Any Chinese move through the Karakoram Pass will threaten our troops in Siachen and our base there. In the contingency of any future conflict with the Chinese, new areas of conflict in Ladakh will open up. I served in Ladakh for two years immediately after the Chinese invasion of 1962, and it fell under my purview subsequently as Chief of Staff and Army Commander covering the northeast.
Keeping these factors in mind, there is a urgent requirement for another division and supporting armour to be raised for the defence of Ladakh.
In the northeast, the Chinese may after negotiations reduce their claims from the whole of Arunachal to the Tawang tract and Walong.
Major Bob Kathing and his Assam Rifles platoon only moved to take control of Tawang in the spring of 1951 . The Chinese had placed a pillar in Walong in the 1870's. They have built up the road rail and air infrastructure in Tibet. It is assessed that the Chinese can now induct some 30 divisions there in a matter of weeks.
In west Bhutan, they have moved upto the Torsa Nulla. From there it is not far to Siliguri via Jaldakha. This remains the most serious threat to the Siliguri corridor.
There is thus a need to raise two more divisions and an armoured brigade for that region. There is an urgent requirement for more artillery firepower and mobility.
More helicopters are also needed. The Air Force needs to deploy more squadrons in that region, since unlike 1962, the air force will play a decisive role in any future operations.
The Chinese are also said to be re-establishing their earlier links with the Naga insurgents.
In 1974/75, I was in charge of operations that intercepted two Naga gangs going to China to collect weapons and money. The Nagas were then compelled to sign the Shillong Accord, and Chinese support for the Naga insurgents was put on the back burner. This has now been re activated as part of an overall Chinese scheme to destabilize the north east.
The increasing military collaboration between China and Pakistan is of growing concern, but we seem woefully unprepared for this contingency.
The government urgently needs to expedite the induction of land and air weapons systems and to build up the required reserves of ammunition and spares. In any future conflict logistics will be of paramount importance.
During the 1971 war, it took me some six months to build up the infrastructure for the operations in East Pakistan. The requirements now are far far greater. Modern weapon systems take a long time to induct and absorb. The induction of new weapons systems and build up of logistical backing should be initiated on an emergency footing.
At the moment, we seem to have insufficient resources to meet this contingency.
We are critically short of modern weapons systems and weaponry. No new 155 guns have been inducted for some two decades .
During the limited Kargil conflict, we ran out of 155mm ammunition for the Bofors field guns. Fortunately for us the Israelis flew out the required ammunition.
New aircraft for our Air Force are yet to be inducted. The navy is short of vital weapons systems . These shortages need to be addressed soonest.
There is no Soviet Union with its Treaty of Friendship to help us now [in 1971, the Soviets moved 40 divisions to the Xinjiang and seven to the Manchurian borders to deter the Chinese]. We have to rely on our own resources. We must show that we have the will and wherewithal to meet the emerging contingencies.
It is high time the government reappraises the emerging situation and puts in place the measures required to meet the developing situation. Or soon it might be too late.
Editor's note:
- Lt Gen JFR Jacob is not an armchair warrior. He has dealt with terrorism and insurgency over a period of many years.
- As a young major, he took part in intensive counter insurgency operations in Sumatra 1945/1946.
- In 1970, he was responsible for setting up the army counter insurgency school in Mizoram.
- He was in charge of anti-Naxal operations in West Bengal in 1969-1971. The then chief minister Siddharta Shankar Ray used to say: 'Jake and I, we broke the Naxals.'
- In 1974/1975 the army intercepted two Naga gangs going to China [Jacob camped at Mokochong to conduct operations]. The army attacked their bases and finally forced the insurgents to sign the Shillong Accord in 1975. Twelve years of peace followed.
- He oversaw operations in Mizoram and got the hostiles to the negotiating table in Calcutta. [Calcutta Conference, 1978).
- On the other side of the coin, he was responsible in setting up the Bangladesh Mukti Bahini in April 1971, and oversaw their operations.
- In October 2007, He was invited to speak to the American military, State Department and CIA at Capitol Hill. The lecture was broadcast live. The US Marine Corps subsequently requested permission to incorporate parts of the talk in their counterinsurgency doctrine.
JFR Jacob on Chinese troops in Gilgit
2010-08-31 00:08:21
Gen JFR Jacob, the hero of the 1971 India Pakistan war, warns that unless India wakes up to the recent developments in Gilgit Baltistan, it may be too late.
The Dragon has emerged from its lair with a vengeance.
A senior Indian army officer was denied an official Chinese visa on the grounds that he was commanding in Jammu and Kashmir, a disputed territory according to the Chinese.
The Chinese occupy considerable amount of territory in Ladakh, which they captured in 1962 . They are now slowly making inroads into the Indus Valley and other areas. In 1963, Pakistan had illegally ceded some 5,000 square km (2000 sq miles) in the area of the Karakoram to China.
Pakistan is now reported to have handed over control of the major part of the northern territories to China. Media reports indicate that there are some 10,000 Chinese soldiers based in Gilgit on the pretext of protecting the widening work on the Karakoram Highway and the construction of a railway line to link east Tibet with the Pakistani port of Gwadar in the Gulf of Oman.
The Russians in the 19th and 20th centuries dreamt of a getting warm water port on the Arabian Sea. The Chinese seem well on the way to fulfilling this Russian dream.
In a further move to encircle India by sea, the Chinese are establishing naval and air bases on Myanmar's Ramree Island in the Bay of Bengal. (Incidentally, I took part in the amphibous assault on Ramree Island during World War II). These bases on Ramree Island will help the Chinese in their endeavors to control the upper Bay of Bengal and pose a threat to Kolkata, Vishakapatnam and the Andamans.
The presence of Chinese troops in Gilgit is a matter of great concern. During the Kargil conflict, the five battalions of the intruding paramilitary Northern Rifles were maintained from Gilgit and thence from Skardu. There is a good road from Gilgit to Skardu. In pre-Partition days, road communications to Gilgit were along the Kargil-Skardu-Gilgit route. This section can easily be restored in a short period of time.
The reported presence of Chinese troops in Gilgit poses a serious threat to Indian road communications to Ladakh running through Kargil.
Another matter of concern is the increased Chinese interest in the Indus Valley. The easiest approach to Leh is along this valley. The Chinese have not only shown interest in the Indus Valley but also the Karakoram Pass between India and China.
Any Chinese move through the Karakoram Pass will threaten our troops in Siachen and our base there. In the contingency of any future conflict with the Chinese, new areas of conflict in Ladakh will open up. I served in Ladakh for two years immediately after the Chinese invasion of 1962, and it fell under my purview subsequently as Chief of Staff and Army Commander covering the northeast.
Keeping these factors in mind, there is a urgent requirement for another division and supporting armour to be raised for the defence of Ladakh.
In the northeast, the Chinese may after negotiations reduce their claims from the whole of Arunachal to the Tawang tract and Walong.
Major Bob Kathing and his Assam Rifles platoon only moved to take control of Tawang in the spring of 1951 . The Chinese had placed a pillar in Walong in the 1870's. They have built up the road rail and air infrastructure in Tibet. It is assessed that the Chinese can now induct some 30 divisions there in a matter of weeks.
In west Bhutan, they have moved upto the Torsa Nulla. From there it is not far to Siliguri via Jaldakha. This remains the most serious threat to the Siliguri corridor.
There is thus a need to raise two more divisions and an armoured brigade for that region. There is an urgent requirement for more artillery firepower and mobility.
More helicopters are also needed. The Air Force needs to deploy more squadrons in that region, since unlike 1962, the air force will play a decisive role in any future operations.
The Chinese are also said to be re-establishing their earlier links with the Naga insurgents.
In 1974/75, I was in charge of operations that intercepted two Naga gangs going to China to collect weapons and money. The Nagas were then compelled to sign the Shillong Accord, and Chinese support for the Naga insurgents was put on the back burner. This has now been re activated as part of an overall Chinese scheme to destabilize the north east.
The increasing military collaboration between China and Pakistan is of growing concern, but we seem woefully unprepared for this contingency.
The government urgently needs to expedite the induction of land and air weapons systems and to build up the required reserves of ammunition and spares. In any future conflict logistics will be of paramount importance.
During the 1971 war, it took me some six months to build up the infrastructure for the operations in East Pakistan. The requirements now are far far greater. Modern weapon systems take a long time to induct and absorb. The induction of new weapons systems and build up of logistical backing should be initiated on an emergency footing.
At the moment, we seem to have insufficient resources to meet this contingency.
We are critically short of modern weapons systems and weaponry. No new 155 guns have been inducted for some two decades .
During the limited Kargil conflict, we ran out of 155mm ammunition for the Bofors field guns. Fortunately for us the Israelis flew out the required ammunition.
New aircraft for our Air Force are yet to be inducted. The navy is short of vital weapons systems . These shortages need to be addressed soonest.
There is no Soviet Union with its Treaty of Friendship to help us now [in 1971, the Soviets moved 40 divisions to the Xinjiang and seven to the Manchurian borders to deter the Chinese]. We have to rely on our own resources. We must show that we have the will and wherewithal to meet the emerging contingencies.
It is high time the government reappraises the emerging situation and puts in place the measures required to meet the developing situation. Or soon it might be too late.
Editor's note:
- Lt Gen JFR Jacob is not an armchair warrior. He has dealt with terrorism and insurgency over a period of many years.
- As a young major, he took part in intensive counter insurgency operations in Sumatra 1945/1946.
- In 1970, he was responsible for setting up the army counter insurgency school in Mizoram.
- He was in charge of anti-Naxal operations in West Bengal in 1969-1971. The then chief minister Siddharta Shankar Ray used to say: 'Jake and I, we broke the Naxals.'
- In 1974/1975 the army intercepted two Naga gangs going to China [Jacob camped at Mokochong to conduct operations]. The army attacked their bases and finally forced the insurgents to sign the Shillong Accord in 1975. Twelve years of peace followed.
- He oversaw operations in Mizoram and got the hostiles to the negotiating table in Calcutta. [Calcutta Conference, 1978).
- On the other side of the coin, he was responsible in setting up the Bangladesh Mukti Bahini in April 1971, and oversaw their operations.
- In October 2007, He was invited to speak to the American military, State Department and CIA at Capitol Hill. The lecture was broadcast live. The US Marine Corps subsequently requested permission to incorporate parts of the talk in their counterinsurgency doctrine.
Last edited:
