China Economy: News & Discussion

SHASH2K2

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Honda Motors said Tuesday that workers at a parts plant had walked off the job just days after the company settled a separate strike by agreeing to substantial pay raises for 1,900 workers at its transmission factory.

The new walkout, at an exhaust-system factory in the city of Foshan, will force Honda to halt work Wednesday at one of its four auto assembly plants in China, the company said.

The assembly plants had just reopened after closing for almost two weeks because of the earlier strike at the transmission factory, which is also in Foshan.

The second Honda strike comes amid growing signs that, in a recent and remarkable shift of labor dynamics, China's huge migrant work force is gaining bargaining power.

New pressure to raise pay and improve labor conditions, coming in part from the Chinese government, is likely to raise the cost of doing business in China and could induce some companies to consider shifting production elsewhere.

Another big employer wrestling with labor issues, Foxconn Technology — a giant contract electronics manufacturer that has also announced wage increases in China this month — said Tuesday that it was reconsidering the way it ran its operations in response to criticism of its workplace practices.

Foxconn, which has experienced a string of suicides among workers at its sprawling, citylike campuses in the southern metropolis of Shenzhen, said it was considering turning the management of some of its worker dormitories over to local governments in China.

"Because Foxconn is a commercial enterprise operating like a society, we're responsible for almost everything for our workers, including their job, food, dorm and even personal relationships," Arthur Huang, a Foxconn spokesman, said Tuesday. "That is too much for a single company. A company like Foxconn shouldn't have so many functions."

Foxconn, a subsidiary of Hon Hai Precision Industry of Taiwan, makes devices for companies like Apple, Dell and Hewlett-Packard. Hon Hai's shares fell more than 5 percent Tuesday in Taiwan, to their lowest level since August, after the company said it would seek to pass on its higher labor costs to clients.

As the company held annual shareholder meetings in Taipei and Hong Kong, small groups of people demonstrated outside, urging the company to improve conditions for workers.

Turning over management of employee dormitories to the government authorities would be a drastic change for Foxconn, which, like thousands of other manufacturers in southern China, has lured peasants from rural areas to work at giant, gated factory compounds.

One of the company's Shenzhen campuses employs 300,000 workers and covers about one square mile. The campus has high-rise dormitories, a hospital, a fire department, an Internet cafe and even restaurants and bank branches. Some workers have complained, though, that the long workdays they are expected to put in, with few days off, give them little free time to take advantage of any amenities.

Foxconn said Sunday that it planned to double by October the salaries of many of its 800,000 workers in China to 2,000 renminbi, or nearly $300, a month. The announcement of a big raise by one of the country's biggest exporters seems likely to put pressure on other companies to follow suit, analysts say.

The chairman of Foxconn, Terry Gou, told the Taipei shareholders' meeting that the company was looking to shift some unspecified production from China to automated plants in Taiwan, Reuters reported.

After years of focusing on luring foreign investment, Chinese government officials are now endorsing efforts to improve conditions for workers and raise salaries. The government hopes the changes will ease a widening income gap between the rich and the poor and prevent social unrest over soaring food and housing prices.

On Friday, Beijing's municipal government said it would raise its minimum wage by 20 percent. Ma Jun, a Hong Kong economist at Deutsche Bank, said last week that more cities and provinces would soon raise their minimum wages 10 to 20 percent.

"We therefore believe that a faster-than-expected labor cost increase has now become a political imperative," Mr. Ma said in a report, citing comments from Beijing's leadership about improving social justice.

But analysts say wage pressure is also coming from labor shortages in coastal cities as the country's declining birth rate reduces the number of young people entering the work force.

Factories in southern China that used to advertise in search of employees 18 to 24 years old are now recruiting much older workers.

The labor shortages are being worsened by an economic boom and improving job prospects in inland provinces that have long supplied a steady stream of migrant workers to industrial areas.
TPV Technology, a contract manufacturer that produces computer monitors with about 16,000 workers in five cities in China, said it raised salaries by 15 percent in January and planned to raise them again, perhaps as early as July.
"We'll adjust our salary to the market and to our competitors' level," said Shane Tyau, a vice president at TPV, which is based in Hong Kong. "If Foxconn announces another round of pay raises, we'll reconsider our wage level, too."

Economists say that China's labor force is growing increasingly bold and that over the last year, periodic strikes in southern China — some supposedly involving global companies — have been resolved quietly or not reported in the media.

But the Honda strikes, like the spate of Foxconn suicides, are noteworthy for having generated considerable public attention.

To resolve the strike at its transmission plant, Honda last week offered workers raises of 24 to 32 percent. That strike had forced Honda to shut down its four assembly plants in China.

Now Honda has been a target again. The exhaust-system factory is controlled by a joint venture between a Honda subsidiary and a Chinese company. Honda said the strike would force it to stop work at its Guangqi Honda Automobile assembly plant in the city of Guangzhou.

Honda owns a network of production facilities in China, including the car assembly factories and three auto parts manufacturers, as well as two motorbike plants, two plants that make generators, pumps and other power equipment and three research centers.

Those numbers do not include factories opened in China by Honda subsidiaries like Yutaka Giken, which separately runs four auto parts manufacturers in the country.

Honda declined to speculate Tuesday on whether it was vulnerable to additional strikes for having already shown a willingness to raise wages at the transmission factory. "It's not at all clear at this point whether the two strikes are related," said Natsuno Asanuma, a Honda spokeswoman.

"It's too early at this point to say whether we are looking at some kind of chain reaction."

Tomoo Marukawa, a professor of the Chinese economy at Tokyo University, said that Japanese firms could be especially vulnerable to labor strife because they tended not to give Chinese workers a chance to rise within the company.

"Honda's labor conflicts are not just happening because of disputes over wages," Professor Marukawa said. "Many Chinese probably see little future in a company where locally hired staff are shut out from promotions," he said. "It's a problem that is common to many Japanese companies operating overseas."

Honda has declined to talk about specifics of its settlement with workers at the transmission plant, including whether it involved any changes in its promotion policies.
 

badguy2000

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Literacy? You mean India's 66% vs China's 93.3%. Yes, I see now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_India

Better command of English. Sure, that's why Brits make better auto than Germans, Americans make better digital camera than Japanese, Philippino make better mibile phones than Korean. English is critical ...

IPR? You mean http://www.businessworld.in/bw/2010_05_01_IPR_Protection_India_on_US_Watch_List.html ?

Innovation? You mean http://business.rediff.com/report/2010/feb/09/china-fifth-in-un-patent-filings-india-way-behind.htm ?

Lower wages for Indians, that's for sure. Enjoy that, good news!
well, english is just tool. and it is important just because Anglo-Saxon is stll dominant in the world.

When Rome was dominant, Latin was dominant;
when Greece was dominant ,Greek was dominant;
When Arabians was dominant, Arabic was dominant;
When Louis XVI and Napoleon ruled the europe, french also ruled the europe.
When Stanlin controled one half of the earth, Russian was prevail in the half of the earth.

but the dominance of Latin,Greek,Arabic and French all have gone. the fate of Russian's influnce after cold just prove how rapidly one "dominant lanugage" can decline,once its motherland lose the dominance.
English is not exception
Once Anglo-Saxon loses its dominance, English will become as useless as French....
 
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Daredevil

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well, english is just tool. and it is important just because Anglo-Saxon is stll dominant in the world.

When Rome was dominant, Latin was dominant;
when Greece was dominant ,Greek was dominant;
When Arabians was dominant, Arabic was dominant;
When Louis XVI and Napoleon ruled the europe, french also ruled the europe.
When Stanlin controled one half of the earth, Russian was prevail in the half of the earth.

but the dominance of Latin,Greek,Arabic and French all have gone. the fate of Russian's influnce after cold just prove how rapidly one "dominant lanugage" can decline,once its motherland lose the dominance.
English is not exception
Once Anglo-Saxon loses its dominance, English will become as useless as French....
History cannot always be the guide to predict the future. Using the history of demise of popular medieval languages to predict the demise of modern English language is nothing but utter stupidity and naivety. Today, almost all scientific publications happen in English and all scientific communications also happen in English. For good or bad English is here to stay and there is no other language in the horizon that can replace English and that will be embraced by world population. Irony being that we are communicating in English right now on this forum :).
 

Armand2REP

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Third world wages will not hold in China for a longer time. Major chunk, if not all, of manufacturing will move to other countries which will eventually develop enough infrastructure to sustain the manufacturing.
As I speak there is another strike at the Honda plant just a few days after the last which only emphasizes your point.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/10271559.stm

Major Chinese employers like Foxconn and Honda can only be pushed so far until doing business in China is unprofitable. Producers said they will transfer cost to the consumer. More expense coming out of China means less sales abroad and in China itself. This has negative consequences for business in a China built on the low cost export model. Less companies will be willing to relocate to China as well the migration of long established major employers. Foxconn is already closing down plants and moving the work to automated factories in Taiwan. The rest will likely be closed and moved to India/Vietnam placing 800,000 Chinese out of work.

http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report_china-s-wage-inflation-could-spell-india-s-gain_1393750

Chinese labourers might be able to demand more money, but it will also increase unemployment as the export sector contracts. CCP seems willing to sacrifice its foreign exporters to meet its demand for increased internal consumption. Problem with that model is that as wages rise, so does inflation. Inflation is predicted to hit the 3-4% mark this year which is unprecedented in China, but the real figures are far worse when you include property which would place it in the 20-30% range. May lending reached 630b RMB which was greater than predicted and placing them well over the target lending.

January = 1.39 trllion RMB
February = 700 billion RMB
March = 511 billion RMB
April = 774 billion RMB
May = 630 billion RMB

4 trillion in 5 months. That is the same size as the CCP stimulus or all of 2008 bank lending. They will not be able to exceed 500 billion RMB average for the last 7 months if they are going to hit the 7.5 trillion target. They are on course to hit 9 trillion which will expand money supply by an annual 30% rate. There are now 45 trillion RMB outstanding loans floating around China, many if not most that are bad. The May housing figures are due this week, with an expanding money supply and negative interest rates it will be interesting to see how well their attempts have been to clamp down on property prices.
 

amoy

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Major Chinese employers like Foxconn and Honda can only be pushed so far until doing business in China is unprofitable
some posters seem to shed tears for those companies (or enterpreneurs or 'Capitalists') predicting their profit will be eroded off , they'll choose to source from/move to cheaper labor locations/countries. Perhaps partly correct. But meantime

* Why must those enterprises like Foxconn be that profitable? They just scrap %% portion of profit for workers. Laborers (both blue collar and white collar) deserve a 'decent' share.
* In fact Foxconn for example has/is nego. with buyers (like Apple) for a price hike
What about Laborer's rights? if it has to be at the cost of close of SOME of plants or sectors, what would French or Indian workers act? Will they meekly 'sacrifice' theirs for keeping those factories on?
China, in retrospection, has come to a point to strike a good balance btwn the labor and management, not in 'foreign' investment alone.

The rest will likely be closed and moved to India/Vietnam placing 800,000 Chinese out of work.
Do u argue that those investors will stay in China only on basis of 'cheap labor'?? what about logistics, supply chain, domestic market, capacity of mass production, proficient workforce, mature biz environment??? etc.etc. They've got to stay. Let's wait and see.



CCP seems willing to sacrifice its foreign exporters to meet its demand for increased internal consumption. Problem with that model is that as wages rise, so does inflation.
so that's your theory?? worker increasing wages results in inflation?? But who will be the consumers if salaries are depressed? only a small bunch of deep pockets?? do u really believe that's a sustainable development model??

In your logic China sounds stuck desperately in 'bad' or 'worse' or even 'worst'. Ah ha, let life lecture us all again - FYI Beijing has announced a scheme to increase income by 15% to match the GDP %% rate.

BEIJING - Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao has pledged to further reform of income distribution to narrow the gap between rich and poor and secure social stability.

Related readings:
Problem with income reform
Bridging the income gap
Calls for fairer distribution of income and social justice
China to reform income distribution system



In an article published Thursday in Qiushi, or "Seeking Truth," the official magazine of the Communist Party of China (CPC) Central Committee, Wen said greater efforts were needed to build a rational income distribution structure.

"If the income gap continues to widen, it will pose a major threat to our economic development and social stability," Wen wrote. "We are poised and capable of gradually resolving this problem with a sound momentum of economic and social development and greater sustainability in various fields."

Complaints have been growing about how the income growth of many Chinese was lagging behind the rise in state fiscal revenue. Low incomes have been blamed for dragging down consumer spending.

"We will not only make the 'pie' of social wealth bigger by developing the economy, but also distribute it well on the basis of a rational income distribution system," Wen wrote.

He pledged the government would gradually increase the proportion of income individuals received from the distribution of national income, as well as the proportion of the primary distribution of income that went to wages and salaries.

The role of taxation policies in adjusting the distribution of income should be strengthened, and the tax burden for low and medium-income people should be alleviated.
 

Armand2REP

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The May housing figures are due this week, with an expanding money supply and negative interest rates it will be interesting to see how well their attempts have been to clamp down on property prices.
The figures are here...

China Property Prices Rise More-Than-Estimated 12.4%

June 10 (Bloomberg) -- China's property prices rose at the second-fastest pace on record in May, showing little sign yet that the government crackdown on speculation will work to avert an asset-price bubble. The 12.4 percent gain compared with a record 12.8 percent increase in April from a year earlier, the National Bureau of Statistics said in a statement its website. The data series, covering 70 cities, began in 2005.
So it is pretty clear CCP has no control over property prices and despite all their touted efforts have failed miserably. What do they expect when people just get a divorce for a loan or get personal loans to make a downpayment? Nothing they do will lower prices until they raise interest rates but they won't do that as it will collapse the banks. The only thing left is to try for a property tax but that has its own implications.
 

Armand2REP

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some posters seem to shed tears for those companies (or enterpreneurs or 'Capitalists') predicting their profit will be eroded off , they'll choose to source from/move to cheaper labor locations/countries. Perhaps partly correct.
Of course they will move to cheaper labour locations. Soon the Chinese labourer will be demanding 3000 RMB a month. That is the threshold which will see the largest run-off of foreign companies. If the RMB appreciates it will just drive them out all the sooner. There will be those that stay who sign JVs for sales inside China, but all those who export for foreign markets, which accounts for 60% of Chinese exports today, will be picking up shop to India and Vietnam.

But meantime

* Why must those enterprises like Foxconn be that profitable? They just scrap %% portion of profit for workers. Laborers (both blue collar and white collar) deserve a 'decent' share.
* In fact Foxconn for example has/is nego. with buyers (like Apple) for a price hike
Foxconn is in the business of making money just like any other company. They do not care about what people deserve. They care about the bottom line, just like CCP.

What about Laborer's rights? if it has to be at the cost of close of SOME of plants or sectors, what would French or Indian workers act? Will they meekly 'sacrifice' theirs for keeping those factories on?
A job is better than no job. No one forces them to work there. As they do in China, talk with your feet.

China, in retrospection, has come to a point to strike a good balance btwn the labor and management, not in 'foreign' investment alone.
CCP has not only allowed the abuse to continue, they enforced it. I don't call that striking a good balance. Now China allows strikes which is placing foreign investment headed for the door, that too is not a good balance. With CCP it is always one way or the other.

Do u argue that those investors will stay in China only on basis of 'cheap labor'?? what about logistics, supply chain, domestic market, capacity of mass production, proficient workforce, mature biz environment??? etc.etc. They've got to stay. Let's wait and see.
The foreign exporters came to China for cheap labour, only reason plain and simple. The home countries have all of the above and in better qualities, what they lack is cheap labour. Foreign exporters make up 60% of Chinese exports and that is now severely threatened by a CCP unwilling to clamp down on social unrest towards foreign companies. I find it highly suspect that we do not see long drawn out strikes at Chinese firms, instead CCP sends in the goon squad to break it up. This is a clear case of pressure on foreign exporters to squeeze what they can out of them to help boost Chinese domestic consumption. It is far easier to make the foreign devils pay than having CCP institute the social welfare policies it needs to make people stop saving money. Problem is the devils will not pay for very long watching their profits tumble.

so that's your theory?? worker increasing wages results in inflation?? But who will be the consumers if salaries are depressed? only a small bunch of deep pockets?? do u really believe that's a sustainable development model??
There are four things about the Chinese system that are broken which keeps consumer spending low.

1) negative interest rates
2) lack of investment opportunity
3) no social safety net
4) soaring housing prices (caused by #1 and 2)

CCP wants to keep all the money. It is the driving force behind all its problems. It is a mercantile system which has brought down every major economy that has practised it from the Spanish Empire, to Depression USA, to recession Japan. Hoarding so much cash causes inflation and eventually hyperinflation. A fast rising of wages will put heavy inflationary pressure on the currency if that cash isn't let out of the system and as it stands now, there is little way out. Fruit and vegetable inflation is already up 14.9 and 16.4% last month. Property prices are up 12.5% in the last month. Inflationary pressures for the necessities are outstripping wage growth by an easy 2:1.


In your logic China sounds stuck desperately in 'bad' or 'worse' or even 'worst'. Ah ha, let life lecture us all again - FYI Beijing has announced a scheme to increase income by 15% to match the GDP %% rate.
Is it as good as their failure to control housing prices? or to give Chinese social security?
 

amoy

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WHY CHINA'S PAY UNREST IS HEALTHY
Editorial
There's trouble in the assembly plant of the world. Chinese workers in several plants are bypassing state-controlled trade unions and confronting management. Consumers across the globe face a cost hike at a key stage in the thousands of supply chains that bring them electronics, clothes and toys.

And about time too. Although the details of events in such a closed society are never clear, the protests seem simply to be seeking out the path taken by every successful east Asian country. The only real risk posed by labour unrest is if the Chinese authorities overreact, inflame a pay negotiation into a political confrontation and so damage China's reputation as a reliable part of the global production chain.

The rise in pay looks like a natural consequence of the country's development and of the operation of labour markets, such as they are allowed to function. Productivity has risen over the decades, partly because of more capital per employee but also as a result of higher skill among workers. It is entirely natural for pay – whose share of gross domestic product has fallen steadily – to rise to reflect those returns. Moreover, economic growth more oriented towards domestic consumption by a growing middle class is precisely what China, and the unbalanced world economy, requires.

Wage rises on the scale being sought will have little effect on the world's consumers. Labour costs are only about 5 per cent of the retail price of China's main exports – electronics and other consumer goods. The Chinese pay claims are not going to price an iPad out of anyone's reach.

As for China's own competitive position, higher wage inflation may push some low-value business to India or Vietnam – or poorer parts of China, which have plenty of room to develop basic industries – but this is unlikely to cause too much disruption. The pay claims so far have in any case been concentrated, as one would expect, in higher-value production.

A bigger risk to the Chinese economy would be an authoritarian overreaction by the state. Some western companies have reportedly shortened their supply chains recently, European businesses moving production from east Asia to eastern Europe or north Africa. But they seem mainly concerned with reliability and speed, not pure cost. The worst thing China could do is to introduce higher political risk into such a calculus. Indeed, it would help if workers could be represented through genuinely free collective bargaining rather than a trade union movement controlled by the state.

Pressure for higher pay in China, as long as it reflects higher productivity, is a feature, not a bug. China was preceded down the development path by Japan, Singapore, South Korea, Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand. It will be followed by Vietnam, hopefully Laos, perhaps one day Burma, and, who knows, eventually even North Korea. Chinese workers are not racing to the bottom. They are beginning to rise towards the top.


TABLES START TO TURN ON EMPLOYERS
By Tom Mitchell, Justine Lau, Robin Kwong in Hong Kong, in Foshan, in Taipei
Employers used to dictating terms to their Chinese workforce are learning to beg, plead and cajole. But a softer tone is just the start of the learning curve, as company bosses also adjust time-honoured practices to accommodate the new power dynamic emerging on their factory floors.

At a strike-affected Honda plant in southern Guangdong province yesterday, management posted a note assuring workers that their contracts would be renewed and no one would be fired for participating in an industrial action that began on June 7.

"Regarding the demand for a wage increase, the company promises to reply in 10 days," concluded the notice at Foshan Fengfu Autoparts, which makes exhaust components for the Japanese carmaker's China assembly plants. Behind Foshan Fengfu's gates, workers loitered in their company uniforms. They are not working," said one businesswoman who does outsourcing work for the Honda subsidiary. "They are just hanging out in the factory."

As a result, Honda said, its automotive assembly plants in nearby Guangzhou, the provincial capital, would remain closed today. It is the second time in as many weeks – following similar industrial action at a nearby transmission factory – that the Japanese carmaker's China operations have been held hostage by worker unrest.

Honda's labour dilemma is fairly straightforward in the context of south China's manufacturing industries. Workers, who live off-site and commute to their plants for shift work, have simply been lobbying for more pay. Employees at Honda Automotive Components Manufacturing, the transmission plant, secured an increase of 24-33 per cent late last week.

Matters are much more complicated lower down the value chain, where electronics assemblers operate self-contained "factory towns" that are home to tens if not hundreds of thousands of workers. Constant overtime, repetitive assembly line tasks and debilitating overnight shifts can breed a sense of isolation.

In a tragic expression of the lengths to which workers can be driven, 10 employees at Foxconn, the Taiwanese contract electronics assembler, have taken their lives this year at a facility employing 300,000 people in Shenzhen, another south China manufacturing hub. The most recent suicides prompted the company, headed by Terry Gou, to promise it would more than double monthly wages to Rmb2,000 ($290, €240, £198).

While generous, Honda's double-digit increase followed two years of generally static wage levels across the region as workers hunkered down, grateful to hold on to their jobs through the worst of the global financial crisis. It also promises a welcome rebalancing in an economy in which wages have fallen from 17 per cent of total economic output in 1980 to 11 per cent in 2008.

"A decade ago, it was important to allow enterprises to accumulate capital at the expense of labour," RBS analysts wrote in a research note this week. "But with [industrial] overcapacity and under- consumption, the pendulum has now swung in the other direction. The [government's] goal is to encourage enterprises to upgrade [and reduce their] over-reliance on cheap labour."

The sheer magnitude of Foxconn's salary adjustment signals a potentially dramatic shift in the region's almost reflexive reliance on cheap labour, the benefits of which US, European and Japanese consumers have also come to take for granted.

"Why raise wages?" Mr Gou asked at his company's annual meeting this week in Taipei. "Because our structure needs to change. We need to move to automated, workerless factories in a big way. And when we use robotics and automation we need skilled technicians rather than basic assembly line workers."

"We don't want to just follow the minimum wage," he added. "We need to be, if not the highest-paying employer, at least among the top few."

Executives at Foxconn, which assembles high-tech gadgets for the likes of Apple, Dell and Hewlett-Packard, are confident that their western buyers will help absorb the higher labour costs.

"We're still waiting to see what the government and other companies are going to do," said Alpha Networks, a Taiwanese telecommunications equipment maker with a factory in eastern Jiangsu province. "Wages are only 1-3 per cent of our costs, so if we do have to increase wages we will try to pass that on to customers."

But for smaller businesses that lack large economies of scale and blue-chip client lists, wage increases on the scale of Foxconn's are intimidating.

"Some of us were not competitive to begin with," complained the owner of a Taiwanese toy factory in nearby Dongguan.

"The overall operating environment here has been getting worse for years now [with] power shortages, rising land prices, less accommodating officials and more demanding workers."
 

Armand2REP

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Chinese wage growth is only healthy if they can make the transition from an export oriented economy to one based on domestic consumption. I will explain just how high a mountain China has to climb. Spending $150 billion over ten years on clinics for 1.4 billion people is not going to cut it... hell, it doesn't even scratch the surface. That is $11 per person when developed countries spend $2,500 for our universal healthcare. To reach that level of spending China would have to budget $3.4 trillion a year. That would be around 10% of GDP for a total economy worth $34 trillion to be able to afford it. Then PBC would have to drastically raise interest rates to give people some extra cash in their accounts, which in effect would drive exporters and banks out of business. Then China would actually have to start a real pension system sacking the wealth of the rich party members who run the country. Yeah, I would like to see if the Politburo would go for that. lol With housing prices taking every last dime of workers income, you can forget about it.
 

badguy2000

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well, in fact, the recent strike is just a reflection how rapidly wage in inland CHna is now rising.

because the wage in inland CHina rise rapidly, the workers in costal China has more alternative ,so they dare strike.
 

badguy2000

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Chinese wage growth is only healthy if they can make the transition from an export oriented economy to one based on domestic consumption. I will explain just how high a mountain China has to climb. Spending $150 billion over ten years on clinics for 1.4 billion people is not going to cut it... hell, it doesn't even scratch the surface. That is $11 per person when developed countries spend $2,500 for our universal healthcare. To reach that level of spending China would have to budget $3.4 trillion a year. That would be around 10% of GDP for a total economy worth $34 trillion to be able to afford it. Then PBC would have to drastically raise interest rates to give people some extra cash in their accounts, which in effect would drive exporters and banks out of business. Then China would actually have to start a real pension system sacking the wealth of the rich party members who run the country. Yeah, I would like to see if the Politburo would go for that. lol With housing prices taking every last dime of workers income, you can forget about it.
you still have a one-way head.

Although according to current exchange,1USD=6.8RMB, but with 17000 RMB you can buy much better medical care in than you do with 2500 USD in EU and USA.

So, China needn't invest 2500 USD per captial for unvervesal medical at all.
 

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China says its exports outlook for the year not so good

China today said its trade surplus is likely to fall noticeably this year despite increasing exports as the future outlook for this year appeared not optimistic.

Exports growth would slow after July, while imports would remain robust, China's Commerce Ministry spokesman Yao Jian said at a briefing here today.

He said the 48.5 per cent surge in exports in May was due to a low comparison basis last year and China's trade surplus in the first five months fell 59.9 per cent to USD 35.39 billion. The figure in 2009 topped USD 196.07 billion.

Mr. Yao attributed the weak export outlook to the European sovereign debt crisis, rising commodity prices and labour costs.

"In the following months, the fallout from the debt crisis in Europe would gradually become apparent, and China would closely watch changes in its important exports markets including Germany, Spain and Italy," Mr. Yao said.

China would maintain stable trade policies amid the crisis, and might adjust some policies in some specific industries for environmental protection purposes.

"Stable trade policies are a top priority when the external outlook is not clear," Xinhua quoted him as saying.

Mr. Yao also said that attempts by some US lawmakers to include China's exchange rate policy into trade investigations on China's exports of aluminum extrusions and coated paper lacked factual support and did not conform to rules of the World Trade Organisation.

The WTO regulated trade policies instead of a country's overall financial or foreign exchange policies, he said.


http://beta.thehindu.com/business/Economy/article454023.ece
 

Armand2REP

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you still have a one-way head.

Although according to current exchange,1USD=6.8RMB, but with 17000 RMB you can buy much better medical care in than you do with 2500 USD in EU and USA.

So, China needn't invest 2500 USD per captial for unvervesal medical at all.
I am not talking about dragon bones, tiger penis, and band aids... I am talking about REAL medical care.
 

badguy2000

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I am not talking about dragon bones, tiger penis, and band aids... I am talking about REAL medical care.
guy, do you kow how expensive dragon bones,tiger penis are? one tiger penis is worth one Passat,far more than your "2500 USD universal medical care"
 

Armand2REP

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guy, do you kow how expensive dragon bones,tiger penis are? one tiger penis is worth one Passat,far more than your "2500 USD universal medical care"
Guy, do you know you completely missed the point? China does not have a modern medical system. Most people seek mythological treatment that has no basis in science. That is the point. How many Chinese have access to an MRI?
 
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badguy2000

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Guy, do you know you completely missed the point? China does not have a modern medical system. Most people seek mythological treatment that has no basis in science. That is the point. How many Chinese have access to an MRI?
yes,yes...hahahaha...

for your refence, here is a article on CHinese medical system, which was written by one Indian on Rediff

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/oct/13tjs.htm

Mao made us free, Deng made us happy'
A less visible but more interesting example of the divide between locals and foreigners catches our attention if we go in search of medical assistance. Urban China is notorious for bronchial illnesses like cold and flu and breathing difficulties. If you are a foreigner and develop a sore throat, you better know where to go and what to do.

A local friend took me to a big hospital in Shanghai. At the gate, the watchman told us that the locals' wing was on the right and the foreigners' wing on the left. We decided to go to the locals' wing.

The verandahs were full of patients lying on stretchers and cots with tubes and bottles attached to them. But the service turned out to be prompt. The local friend got me registered (10 yuan), a young doctor examined me (no charge, waiting time only five minutes), a routine blood test was done (50 yuan, completed in 20 minutes on the spot) and a prescription made out for vitamins and Paracetamol (50 yuan). Very efficient and economical procedures, I thought.

Very different was the story when my host had the same sore throat complaint attended to. He works for a foreign company which has an insurance tie-up with what are known as expatriate hospitals in China. He went to one of these hospitals. He too got himself registered, a Chinese doctor examined him, called for a routine blood test and chest x-ray, then prescribed the same vitamins and Paracetamol. He then got a neatly printed bill. The blood test and x-ray cost 990 yuan and there was an additional doctor's charge of 1000 yuan. Plus the cost of the medicines. That is, 2000 yuan (15,000 rupees) against my 72 yuan (about 500 rupees).

He could have gone to the same locals' wing of the hospital that treated me. But his company has this insurance arrangement, so what does he do? Who is taking whom for a ride? Whether it is food or medical services, you are better off in China if you have a local friend to guide you.
 

badguy2000

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Chinese wage growth is only healthy if they can make the transition from an export oriented economy to one based on domestic consumption. I will explain just how high a mountain China has to climb. Spending $150 billion over ten years on clinics for 1.4 billion people is not going to cut it... hell, it doesn't even scratch the surface. That is $11 per person when developed countries spend $2,500 for our universal healthcare. To reach that level of spending China would have to budget $3.4 trillion a year. That would be around 10% of GDP for a total economy worth $34 trillion to be able to afford it. Then PBC would have to drastically raise interest rates to give people some extra cash in their accounts, which in effect would drive exporters and banks out of business. Then China would actually have to start a real pension system sacking the wealth of the rich party members who run the country. Yeah, I would like to see if the Politburo would go for that. lol With housing prices taking every last dime of workers income, you can forget about it.
your idea will prove to be a typical false respect.
Once CHinese salary rises to the same level of Eu and USA, you guys will find that inflaction will erase most of your salaries and your real life quality go down much....then you guys will shout" CHinese erase our bread....."
 

mattster

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The bottom line is that Chinese workers were worked like slave labor at these Foxconn factories. if Foxconn that serves a blue-chip list of clients is that bad, then you can imagine what the conditions in the lesser known sweat-shops are like.

In Foxconn assembly line employees sitting next to each other were not even allowed chat casually with each other and were constantly yelled at my managers. They were asked to work like robots for 10-12 hours a day. Younger Chinese workers are starting to decide that they are not going to take this shit anymore and the all powerful CCP is not going to step in to stop this.....because they know its a time-bomb that could explode in their hands. Poor people are very frustrated and the CCP knows that.

More of this stuff will start happening and cost of doing business in China will start increasing so much so that low-value products will have to be shifted out.

All these Western and high profile american companies like Apple, WalMart, etc., that almost exclusively manufacture 100% of their products in China will slowly have to reevaluate the manufacturing outsourcing models. If something go seriously wrong in China, these companies are totally screwed.
 

Armand2REP

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yes,yes...hahahaha...

for your refence, here is a article on CHinese medical system, which was written by one Indian on Rediff

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/oct/13tjs.htm
Prompt healthcare in China... now thats a laugh. 10 days to see a specialist, a medical system that will bankrupt most so they don't even go. Watch and learn...


Mao made us free, Deng made us happy'
Mao had universal healthcare, it might have been low quality, but something is better than none.
 
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Armand2REP

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This is the type of REAL medical care I am talking about...

 
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