China Economy: News & Discussion

[ym888]

Any and all rankings with data only from nations with high transparency or properly measured. The transparency of data is monitored by IMF or WB I think. The Chinese have gotten so focused on these ranking lists like a maniac. The CCP wants to go up the rankings just for show. it has no intention to build anything tangible. Bribe the WB for EoDB rankings, why?
Also rankings are meaningless. They are academic. Investments are made with expert advice from investment bankers and VC experts who know the situation on the ground. IP valuations are done by professional appraisers based on which someone invests.
‘The reality is many IP are private in nature and their valuations are not known. Many people who invented things like microwave are dead and their families receive royalties now. So, it is impossible to quantify the value of IP that comes from a certain country. Also, most sane countries know that the IP was created through collaboration between various countries universities and R&D labs. If you noticed no country other than China keeps trumpeting about these rankings every moment. It is a sort of inferiority complex from the CCP. Real IP powerhouses like Israel just deliver innovation-they don’t care about these academic rankings. Same in the US. No one cares.
The more China keeps trumpeting these gamed or incorrect academic rankings, everyone will note that the CCP claims are even more hollow. After the CCP bribed WB officials to falsely go up the EoDB rankings, no one believes in Chinese positions in any of these global rankings, even if academic.
India no longer believes in any numbers coming out of China and that is why the government does not cite any numbers from China even for academic benchmarks.
Things have gotten worse now with the CCP publishing fraudulent Wuhan virus death numbers. Even WHO which is pro China has stated the Chinese numbers cannot be trusted. EU countries don’t even believe in the RT PCR test results provided by Chinese travelers to the EU. Such is the lack of trust in CCP. You can be 100% certain that no one will use these rankings for countries with history of committing ranking frauds like China. End of story.

Please recommend a ranking that you think is credible

Does it not exist?

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Please recommend a ranking that you think is credible

Does it not exist?

There is none. All measures of innovation has China at the top whether it is patents, high tech exports or engineering schools. Even more important is innovations are actually made into reality not just experimented in a lab. Every high technology on earth has a Chinese presence : green energy, space, nuclear, all transportation -- land, sea, air, infrastructure and civil engineering, etc.

And China has only started on the journey. It is not even fully developed yet. The next generation coming out of its college system will be even better. The next generation of its companies will have even more patents internal IP.

 

[ym888]

There is none. All measures of innovation has China at the top whether it is patents, high tech exports or engineering schools. Even more important is innovations are actually made into reality not just experimented in a lab. Every high technology on earth has a Chinese presence : green energy, space, nuclear, all transportation -- land, sea, air, infrastructure and civil engineering, etc.

And China has only started on the journey. It is not even fully developed yet. The next generation coming out of its college system will be even better. The next generation of its companies will have even more patents internal IP.

That's the last thing Americans want

There is an Indian China expert who will quickly contradict you.

@RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

 

[SexyChineseLady]

That's the last thing Americans want

There is an Indian China expert who will quickly contradict you.

@RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

Of course not. If China cannot innovate at a high level the Americans wouldn't bother sanctioning it!

Those sanctions always lead to greater Chinese ability:

Look at ISS ban, it resulted in Chinese Space Station being only orbiting habitat owned solely by one country.

That allowed China to do this before anyone else!

https://spectrum.ieee.org/satellite-qkd-china

The orbiting Tiangong-2 space lab has transmitted quantum-encryption keys to four ground stations, researchers reported on 18 August. The same network of ground stations is also able to receive quantum keys from the orbiting Micius satellite, which is in a much higher orbit, using the space station as a repeater. It comes just after the late July launch of Jinan 1, China’s second quantum-encrypting satellite, by the University of Science and Technology of China.
...
“The launch is significant,” says physicist Paul Kwiat of the University of Illinois in Urbana-Champaign, because it means the team are starting to build, not just plan, a quantum network. USTC researchers did not reply to IEEE Spectrum’s request for comments

 

[skywatcher]

Tesla owners in China protest against price cuts

 

[SexyChineseLady]

China doesn't sit on its laurels, it actively tries -- the results will be seen in coming years

Scientists leave Japan for China, wooed by better teamwork, jobs | The Asahi Shimbun: Breaking News, Japan News and Analysis

Scientists leave Japan for China, wooed by better teamwork, jobs
THE ASAHI SHIMBUN

January 10, 2023 at 07:00 JST

Scientists who left Japan for better prospects elsewhere said the nation’s decision-makers could learn from China’s massive push to become a world leader in scientific research.

China has aggressively invested in research and development, poaching more and more scientists from places like Japan, where researchers face restrictive work environments and a dearth of funding.

...

MORE OPPORTUNITIES, MORE PRESTIGE

A Japanese scientist in his 30s remembers the immense pressure he felt when his term as assistant professor was about to expire in 2022.

He had been job hunting for a few years, seeking to become an associate professor at a national university in Japan, but nothing turned up.

“Oh, I failed again,” he said to himself. “Perhaps it’s time to begin applying for jobs at places other than universities I want to work at.”

As he pondered the thought, one scene would not leave his mind.

When he attended a scientific meeting in the United States in winter 2019, he had an opportunity to see a professor from China he knew who was wooing Chinese students studying abroad to his new research center.

As he watched young Chinese researchers listen to the professor with beaming eyes, he started to feel frustrated by the thought that Japan could end up being left behind in China’s dust.

The Japanese researchers he knew were all prone to fatalism. They would make up excuses or become resigned about their work. They often complained of minuscule budgets or a lack of time for doing adequate research.

Once he was back in Japan, he told his wife, “Those (Chinese students) are the sort of enthusiastic people I wish to work with.”

The scientist had also been approached by the professor for recruitment.

He worried that going to China offered promised nothing in return, but he decided to give it a shot.

“I needed the determination of someone announcing himself as a warlord during the Warring States Period (late 15th and 16th centuries),” he said.

He got a gig as an associate professor and moved to China with his family in spring 2022.

He found the scientists there to be highly motivated. They care about publishing many research articles and rarely miss an opportunity, he said.

The man said he feels that, unlike in Japan, Chinese society holds science and academia in high esteem, and promising young scientists are being hired and given status while they are still budding.
...
Motoharu Nowada, a 49-year-old space plasma physicist, was employed as a postdoctoral research fellow at Peking University in Beijing in 2010. His monthly take-home pay was only about 32,500 yen ($245) at the time.

Nowada said he ended up in China by chance.
After obtaining a Ph.D. at Tokai University in Japan, he could not find work at national universities. He landed a job at a university in Taiwan on a contract that would last two and a half years.

When that term expired, he was back in the job hunt but was met with the same rejections from universities in Japan. He was offered a job after he contacted a Peking University professor whose research paper had interested him.

Nowada’s contract expired again after five years, and his third spell of job hunting was even tougher than the previous time, possibly because he was older.

In the end, the Peking University professor introduced Nowada to a professor with Shandong University in China’s Shandong province, who hired him as a research associate.

He is being paid five times what he received five years earlier, thanks partly to China’s economic growth.

Although his job comes with a term that expires in 2024, Nowada said he has no regrets about his choice.

One thing that he finds strikingly different between Japanese and Chinese universities is the way people communicate within a lab.

In China, researchers form strong connections not only with supervisors but also with fellow lab mates, who respond immediately to social media messages.

But at many universities in Japan, the hierarchy is much more rigid, with the professor being the king of the castle.

After spending more than a decade at Chinese universities, Nowada said he does not necessarily agree with the popular view that China’s remarkable scientific results are made because research is better funded there than it is in Japan.

“I believe the environment that allows scientists to discuss anything among themselves is a major reason that China’s research capabilities improved,” he said.

Nowada said he has the impression that more Japanese scientists in recent years hope to go to China, where they believe there is better funding and more time set aside for research.

“By basic principle, however, your research proposals will not pass the screening and you will not be given posts in China unless your research is novel and you have delivered results,” he said.

Nowada said that had he stayed in Japan, he would not have published as many research articles.

“I hope young Japanese scientists will think of China as one optional destination on the understanding that competition is tough in the country,” he said.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

With the end of Zero Covid, China will concentrate on growth again.

But even with Zero Covid, China had far more growth than any country during the pandemic! (With things like EVs and LNG tankers suddenly becoming new pillars during Covid period!)

Get ready for the ride when the commies actually support business instead of hampering them!

From Disciplinarian to Cheerleader: Why China Is Changing Its Tone on Business (Published 2023)

With the economy in a fragile state, Chinese officials are starting to use more business-friendly language, and also to back their words with action.

www.nytimes.com

Focus: China shipyards feast on record LNG tanker orders as South Korea builders are full up

China is making fast inroads in the market for newbuild liquefied natural gas (LNG) tankers as local and foreign shipowners turn to its shipbuilders for the specialty vessels because long dominant yards in South Korea are fully booked.

www.reuters.com

China’s local governments set 2023 growth targets, offering clues on economic recovery | CNN Business

A number of key provinces and cities in China have announced their growth targets for this year, most of them above 5%, offering the first clues about the country’s economic path in 2023.

amp.cnn.com

 

[SexyChineseLady]

China's scientific supremacy shifting balance of power - Asia Times

By at least one measure, China now leads the world in producing high-quality science. My research shows that Chinese scholars now publish a larger

asiatimes.com

China’s scientific supremacy shifting balance of power
China now publishes more high-quality science papers than any other nation – and the US is and should be worried

By CAROLINE WAGNER
JANUARY 11, 2023

By at least one measure, China now leads the world in producing high-quality science. My research shows that Chinese scholars now publish a larger fraction of the top 1% most cited scientific papers globally than scientists from any other country.

I am a policy expert and analyst who studies how governmental investment in science, technology and innovation improves social welfare. While a country’s scientific prowess is somewhat difficult to quantify, I’d argue that the amount of money spent on scientific research, the number of scholarly papers published and the quality of those papers are good stand-in measures.

China is not the only nation to drastically improve its science capacity in recent years, but China’s rise has been particularly dramatic. This has left US policy experts and government officials worried about how China’s scientific supremacy will shift the global balance of power.

...
We were surprised to find that in 2019, Chinese authors published a greater percentage of the most influential papers, with China claiming 8,422 articles in the top category, while the US had 7,959 and the European Union had 6,074.

In just one recent example, we found that in 2022, Chinese researchers published three times as many papers on artificial intelligence as US researchers; in the top 1% most cited AI research, Chinese papers outnumbered US papers by a 2-to-1 ratio. Similar patterns can be seen with China leading in the top 1% most cited papers in nanoscience, chemistry and transportation.

Our research also found that Chinese research was surprisingly novel and creative– and not simply copying western researchers. To measure this, we looked at the mix of disciplines referenced in scientific papers.

The more diverse and varied the referenced research was in a single paper, the more interdisciplinary and novel we considered the work. We found Chinese research to be as innovative as other top performing countries.

Taken together, these measures suggest that China is now no longer an imitator or producer of only low-quality science. China is now a scientific power on par with the U.S. and Europe, both in quantity and in quality.

 

[KurtisBrian]

Of course not. If China cannot innovate at a high level the Americans wouldn't bother sanctioning it!

Those sanctions always lead to greater Chinese ability:

Look at ISS ban, it resulted in Chinese Space Station being only orbiting habitat owned solely by one country.

That allowed China to do this before anyone else!

https://spectrum.ieee.org/satellite-qkd-china

The orbiting Tiangong-2 space lab has transmitted quantum-encryption keys to four ground stations, researchers reported on 18 August. The same network of ground stations is also able to receive quantum keys from the orbiting Micius satellite, which is in a much higher orbit, using the space station as a repeater. It comes just after the late July launch of Jinan 1, China’s second quantum-encrypting satellite, by the University of Science and Technology of China.
...
“The launch is significant,” says physicist Paul Kwiat of the University of Illinois in Urbana-Champaign, because it means the team are starting to build, not just plan, a quantum network. USTC researchers did not reply to IEEE Spectrum’s request for comments

You're not innovating you are stealing with the help of traitor Catholics (Irish/Italians...Germans).
Catholics think they can come to the West as servants and own the place by serving. Traitorous thieves. Turns out, Chinese are no different.

I hate thieves.

 

[Varzone]

Also rankings are meaningless. They are academic. Investments are made with expert advice from investment bankers and VC experts who know the situation on the ground.

Sadly I disagree. Lol
I attend strategy meetings for investment funds and i know how they operate and think.

Their main concern is always and forever what the CCP's action and reaction will be.

I would suggest caution when you throw statements like investment managers are gods and make 100% accurate and fundamentally sound decisions.

They're handling money how clients want them to be handled and operate in the circle the clients wants exposure to.

 

[Blademaster]

You're not innovating you are stealing with the help of traitor Catholics (Irish/Italians...Germans).
Catholics think they can come to the West as servants and own the place by serving. Traitorous thieves. Turns out, Chinese are no different.

I hate thieves.

Really? Then pls hate your people and your government for they stole the land and its bounty from the Native Americans that were there.

 

[KurtisBrian]

Really? Then pls hate your people and your government for they stole the land and its bounty from the Native Americans that were there.

Only Catholics and foreigners who want to steal are selling that bs now.

 

[ym888]

By 2022, China will have 21 new urban rail transit lines in operation, with an additional 847 kilometers in operation. On Nov 10, 2022, Nantong opened its first subway line, officially entering the subway era.



As in past years, Shanghai, Beijing and Guangzhou remain the top three in terms of subway mileage in China. Shanghai has the longest subway system in China, and it was the first city in China to break the 800-kilometer mark, reaching 825 kilometers. Shanghai's subway mileage is far higher than London, New York and other cities, and continues to remain the world's first.



Shanghai Metro added no new lines last year, Beijing Metro opened the southern section of Line 16, and Guangzhou Metro opened two new sections last year. By the end of 2022, Beijing has nearly 800 kilometers of subway, while Guangzhou has just over 600 kilometers of subway.



Currently, there are seven cities in China with more than 500 kilometers of subway. They are Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Chengdu, Hangzhou and Wuhan. In addition, Nanjing and Chongqing have more than 400 kilometers of subway, Qingdao more than 300 kilometers, and Tianjin, Xi 'an, Suzhou, Zhengzhou, Shenyang, Dalian and Changsha more than 200 kilometers.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Growth in China, recession in the US:

 

[SexyChineseLady]

It looks like an all growth policy is set for 2023:

 

[Hari Sud]

We hear a lot about Covid in China and 250 million suffering from it and thousands upon thousands are dead (who knows). I am beginning question all this data. China’s GDP has not dipped in last three years of total quarantine of the population. Chinese exports have not slowdown. Their military belligerence in the neighbourhood has not slowdown. They are still spending money on BRI and CPEC and many more worthless projects, lending money to Pakistan and others etc. Hence my point is that if there is a shutdown or quarantine of the population and factories not running then how are they maintaining their GDP growth and maintaining their export level? Is somebody not telling the truth?

 

[SexyChineseLady]

We hear a lot about Covid in China and 250 million suffering from it and thousands upon thousands are dead (who knows). I am beginning question all this data. China’s GDP has not dipped in last three years of total quarantine of the population. Chinese exports have not slowdown. Their military belligerence in the neighbourhood has not slowdown. They are still spending money on BRI and CPEC and many more worthless projects, lending money to Pakistan and others etc. Hence my point is that if there is a shutdown or quarantine of the population and factories not running then how are they maintaining their GDP growth and maintaining their export level? Is somebody not telling the truth?

Zero Covid allowed China in the first two years to escape a recession from the pandemic because the earlier waves like Delta were not as contagious but deadlier. Total lockdowns of towns and cities were rare and selective.

Zero Covid became ineffective with Omicron (which swept through the West even with their super duper mRNA vaccines!) and more total lockdowns and of larger cities.

Western media likes to focus on the worst of the Omicron period which is like 6 months out of 30 of the Covid era to attack Zero Covid.

Now that China quickly removed Zero Covid, they are ignoring China's very high rate of vaccination. They are pretend that mRNA did better no they didn't. Majority of people with mRNA vaccines still got infected just like people with Chinese (and Indian) inactivated vaccines. And in both cases, the vaccines didn't stop infections but did lower severe cases and deaths.

China is highly vaccinated so the death are and will be very low, especially combined with Omicron being far less deadly than the earliet strains. China admits to hundreds of millions of infections. Whole provinces are admitted to be infected. These admissions are many times higher than what the US and India admit to during their peaks. So who is hiding anything?

If people are wondering about the deaths just look at the economy. When society is experiencing deaths in huge numbers, the animal spirit dies too and economic activity plunges. The US and India fell into recession during their covid death peaks. If China falls into recession in 2023 then you'll have your answer.

But right now, China looks like it will have a good pretty year for growth while the rest of the world is falling into recession (non-Covid reason.)

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Good post! But optimizations that result in mass production are innovations as well. What allowed China to build 70% of the global HSR, EV, etc. components were the results of many new materials, tools and processes invented in China and unlikely to be replicated elsewhere. Even in the developed world.

These changes (innovations by any other word) are the results from the evolution of both private (marketplace) and state innovation systems. It is a mouthful but it is best exemplified here by China's advance on AI:

China's catching-up in artificial intelligence seen as a co-evolution of corporate and national innovation systems

Inspired by Christopher Freeman's work on how radical technical change opens up for shifts in world leadership and on the role of innovation systems i…

www.sciencedirect.com

You'll eventually see innovations like this in the industries of nuclear power, aircraft engines and semiconductors as well. It is a matter of time.

Obviously China is innovating on a grand scale. And EVERY chart on innovation has China among the countries at the top -- and always being the only developing country.

If China cannot innovate then why would the US bother putting bans on satellites, space launches, silicon chips, etc. on China? Why target a company like Huawei!

Because Huawei was at the forefront of telecom innovations and has the patents to prove it. If Huawei were not innovative then it would have died three years ago when the US banned it from any of its technology. Huawei is just the tip of the iceberg. There are legions of Chinese tech companies behind Huawei.

Another example is the Chinese space program. All these US bans resulted in a solely owned Chinese Space station that the US doesn't have and a Mars program that in one go put a rover on Mars -- basically doing something that took NASA decades to do.

On its first try, China's Zhurong rover hit a Mars milestone that took NASA decades

China’s Zhurong rover landed safely on Mars on May 15, making China only the third country to successfully land a rover on the red planet.

www.space.com

Now NASA is taking "inspiration" from the Chinese rover

Nasa’s new rover an imitation of China’s Mars robot, scientists say

The US has long accused China of stealing space technology, but Artemis programme’s VIPER appears to borrow from Chinese rover Zhu Rong, which features caterpillar-inspired suspension system.

www.scmp.com

1. Huawei is dead internationally. Once the US cutoff Huawei technology, it promptly died. Just cited a link that shows a Huawei executive himself claim it.
2. “on first try” does NOT mean anything. We don’t know what the payload of the Chinese rover is. American rover’s architecture is open, so everyone knows the capabilities.
3. The SCMP article is pure 100% unadulterated garbage. The article says It “looks” like the American rover has something similar. Are you going to claim the F35 is a copy of the J20 because it “looks” similar. Plagiarism requires a higher standard of proof.
4. AI is not something anyone owns via a patent. Lol.

The fact is there are no attestations from R&D people on the ground that China’s fundamental research is anything but reverse engineering of other countries’ technologies, for example HSR, where the Japanese are once again ahead in technology. The reality is that there are dozens of articles which conclusively prove that core innovation is impossible under a directed economy like the CCP’s. China’s scientists are ALL under threat of delivering research output by any means possible - theft, bribe, false claims etc.
No chance of a SpaceX or pharma or biomedical or an Apple or so many more ever coming from CCP led China. The CCP model can only achieve as much as the Soviets did. The US companies are already well into the next generation of computing hardware and biomedical innovations.
In fact, I am willing to even claim that core R&D innovation happens more in an open and globally integrated India than in China - the snapdragon chip designed and developed in Qualcomm India powers the latest generation AI applications in mobile phones. Most of the US companies’ next generation computing platforms have a major R&D component in Bengaluru. A lot of Intel’s new hardware design happens in India. On the ground, the CEOs of all leading corporations assert that India is a leader in chip design. There are 20000 chip design engineers in India now - all plugged into the bleeding edge innovation of global corporations. That is a massive ecosystem. Some of these engineers can form a company, get capital and generate the next super technology. And this is what is missing in CCP directed China, The freedom to move around, collaborate, and innovate.
The CCP’s old strategies of paying to be on rankings won’t work anymore, especially after bribing the world bank for EoDB rankings.That era of trusting China’s position in rankings is gone. Not a single investor or CEO of a global corporation trusts these rankings or Beijing sponsored fake research and paid articles in western press any more. That hype is over. LoL.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

View attachment 189437

This is NOT innovation. This is UPGRADE. Something has done as well. Not innovation. This is innovation:

'India has a big role to play': New Delhi is trying to turn the country into a chip powerhouse

India could have a large role to play in the semiconductor industry, analysts said, as the world's fifth-largest economy looks to boost its domestic chip sector.

www.cnbc.com

A quote from that article:
”Kotasthane said that of the largest semiconductor firms in the world, eight have design houses in India. While also in the early stages, India is trying to boost its domestic companies to build technology.”


From the same article, Indian-Israeli collaboration : “ISMC Digital, a consortium of investors, is planning to build a $3 billion manufacturing facility in India. Tower Semiconductor, an Israeli company, would be the technology partner on that project.”

On the ground deal, collaboration, investments - bot some stupid academic rankings and patent mills.