China Economy: News & Discussion

[Sachinananda]

Reverse engineering my ass. They have an incomplete, underpowered engine on poorly designed and built “stealth” planes that will be swatted away by the USAF or even the IAF. You cannot beat real engineering and innovation. Clearly all the CCP criminals who tried to steal aircraft engine technology from the US have been jailed. So they obviously don’t have blueprints for competing with the US or UK or France. 100% of their technology is a generation or two behind the western technologies and there are zero chances of catching up as all this reverse engineering and stealing means they never setup proper R&D infrastructure and never learned how to create successful engineering products after repeated failures. Their semiconductor strategy is a failure after throwing billions of dollars at it. Even the CCP has acknowledged that and now wants to punish the corrupt people who took China down that path. China will continue to fall behind western technology as they have been comprehensively locked out of technology development by leading nations.
The US recently announced a breakthrough in Fusion energy. There is no chance of the CCP getting there as almost all of CCP’s criminals have been arrested and jailed including their intelligence agents who will be extradited to the US if they step foot anywhere outside of China. The US is aggressively going after these thieves. I am sure more Chinese spies, thousand talent thieves will be arrested and jailed.
Reverse engineering has limits. In fact the risk of getting the design wrong is quite high in reverse engineering. This is why when India does ToT deals it is not just handover blueprint for billions. It is active JV and collaboration like Brahmos. Same with SAFRAN - they pitched a deal for $1 billion for HAL to buy the blue prints for an aircraft engine but HAL wanted a lot more collaborative design and manufacturing built into it.

Leave it no point of continuing as u seem to give ur own opinion rather than proofs of being underpower when 100s being integrated and used on other hand we don't have a singe engine flying
That's enough I feel but no just say they are underpowered they are useless bla bla
That's it from my side u are on your own world
No more posts from me
Thanks for replying me

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Stealing one engine and reverse engineering it can result in 1000s of engine bcoz all u need is tech if u have it u can build 1000s
Com on something sense has to brought
Any way reverse engineering can't be done by everyone though only those can reverse engineer who have massive industry base so Congo
Enough to reverse engineer 1 engine that will alone let u build a base for next hundred years but one must have capability to reverse engineer which China has due to massive industrial base
So I admire china on that basis

You can gift most countries the F-22 or even the F-4 or MiG-21 and they can never replicate it. It takes an enormous infrastructure to build an aircraft.

This is a Y-20, it is big, fat and very beautiful -- and it is currently the ONLY transport aircraft of its size in production anywhere in the world:

Now imagine making many of these:

There are literally only a handful of countries who could do this. You can hand the blueprints to the other 200 countries in the world and they will not be able to do anything with it. Ideas and designs are cheap. Anyone with a brain can think them up.

What is important is the infrastructure to convert those ideas into reality and do it in economy of scale.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Leave it no point of continuing as u seem to give ur own opinion rather than proofs of being underpower when 100s being integrated and used on other hand we don't have a singe engine flying
That's enough I feel but no just say they are underpowered they are useless bla bla
That's it from my side u are on your own world
No more posts from me
Thanks for replying me

Dude there are numerous articles about underpowered Chinese engines and why they are underpowered. Go read it. You don’t want to put any effort in researching the real capabilities of the CCP and want to live in a delusional world. I told you before the Chinese are good at doing large scale production and assembly. They are nowhere near the innovation in the west. This has been proven repeatedly including with th ear aircraft engines, unsuccessful stealth designs etc. And no their argument of putting the engines in hundreds of planes has been thoroughly busted. We had an argument on engine technology and all sorts of links were provided to bust the false claims of the CCP. just go read a few pages back.Just go get educated instead of simping out.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Leave it no point of continuing as u seem to give ur own opinion rather than proofs of being underpower when 100s being integrated and used on other hand we don't have a singe engine flying
That's enough I feel but no just say they are underpowered they are useless bla bla
That's it from my side u are on your own world
No more posts from me
Thanks for replying me

The WS-10 series has far more power than the AL-31F which the first J-11 and India's current SU-30MKI uses. Is the MKI underpowered? Hardly. The WS-10B on the J-16 has 18% more thrust!

The engines used in the J-10, J-11 and J-20 (J-16 used WS-10B only) -- progression went from

1) 122kN of AL-31F to

2) 132/135kN of WS-10A to

3) 140/145kN of WS-10B and finally

4) 145/147kN of WS-10C (WS-15 would be ~ 180kN):

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

The WS-10 series has far more power than the AL-31F which the first J-11 and India's current SU-30MKI uses. Is the MKI underpowered? Hardly. The WS-10B on the J-16 has 18% more thrust!

The engines used in the J-10, J-11 and J-20 (J-16 used WS-10B only) -- progression went from

1) 122kN of AL-31F to

2) 132/135kN of WS-10A to

3) 140/145kN of WS-10B and finally

4) 145/147kN of WS-10C (WS-15 would be ~ 180kN):


View attachment 188736

There are no proven, verified sources for the WS10B and WS10. thrust claims. No independent agency has ever verified Chinese claims. In fact many of these claims were actually debunked, as discussed earlier.
MKI is definitely underpowered.It does not have a thrust ratio comparable to western engines.
‘You can read more here. While the WS10C is an improvement there is no verified data on the output. And the WS15 and higher powered engines are going nowhere.

defenceview.in

This domain may be for sale!

www.defenceview.in

From the article:
”
Reason of Failure
Many aircraft components come from Chinese suppliers, who are still in the process of developing and perfecting their manufacturing capabilities. However, in general, the J-20 still requires a lot of foreign components, while the supply is very limited.

China also revealed that the J-20 development program cost $4.4 billion [as of 2018], with a construction cost of $110 million each. In addition to production difficulties, there are performance problems with the prototypes and six production models that the PLA Air Force received in 2018.

At that time, it was discovered that there were some potential problems in the production of the J-20. The main problems identified were related to the engine’s stealth capabilities, and the sophisticated materials added to the airframe, which made the radar’s ability to detect targets less effective.

Of these, the most obvious problem is the engine. In 2018, the WS-10 engine was installed for the J-20 as a temporary replacement, it was not efficient enough to support the aircraft’s supercruise capabilities.”

It clearly shows with reasonable logic and data that the Chinese have to import a lot of components as their aerospace ecosystem is not mature. Plus it says that the stealth nature of the WS series engines are hugely in doubt.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Looks like riots are in full swing now…lol. Will the CCP collapse and a new system friendly toward the Chinese citizens and the world take over?

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

If people want to understand how the CCP leaders create mega vanity projects to show their god-like status, look at this $150 billion failed experiment by dear leader Xi Jinping. 50% of Chinese population live on $150 or less per month by the way. But CCP wastes giant amounts of money elsewhere with no accountability or consequenc. And then Xi complains about corruption in the CCP. What a joke, lol? The Chinese peasants are screwed.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Slimy Chinese tried to steal Samsung’s display technologies. Got caught and arrested. Cannot make OLED display screens, these bots wants us to believe they make good aero engines. Ha ha ha.

channelnews : Chinese Caught Trying To Steal Samsung Display Secrets, Court Reveals

Samsung secrets and attempts by Chinese display companies to steal Korean display technology is being played out in a South Korean Court this week. On trial are two key Samsung executives were caught allegedly leaking information on Samsung display technology to a display machine manufacturer...

www.channelnews.com.au

The bastards tried to steal Samsung’s bendable phone technology as well. They were caught and castrated as required. Lol.

South Korea Charges 11 With Selling Samsung Technology to China

Suspects accused of stealing bendable screen technology.

www.industryweek.com

This is the latest. The CCP thieves are relentless.

Engineer Who Fled Charges of Stealing Chip Secrets Now Thrives in China (Repeat)

ASML has pressed IP theft allegations against two firms created by ‘flagbearer’ for China’s semiconductor industry

www.bloomberg.com

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Read this to why China can never innovate under the CCP no matter the amount of dollars it throws. Interest fact: out of 5000 open secrets stealing cases with FBI, 1000 are from China alone. Not a single country in the world would trust China with even the latest screw making technology. LoL. Effectively China has become a technology pariah - an outcaste of the world who now have to do everything by themselves which is impossible under the CCP system.

China’s Grand Theft

Grand theft auto is a persistent crime in America, a felony in most states with jail sentences up to 10 years and a fine of $10,000, depending upon the value of the car and any valuables left inside. Car theft is a lucrative pursuit. Thieves steal an average of 2,400 vehicles a day for a grand...

www.heritage.org

 

[rockdog]

China's Exports Of Electric Vehicles To Europe Reach Record Levels
Exports of China-made EVs to Europe amounted to $3.2 billion in November 2022, up 165 percent from a year ago.

China's Exports Of Electric Vehicles To Europe Reach Record Levels

The bulk of the exports wasn't made up of EVs from Chinese brands but from European automakers that have manufacturing facilities in the Asian country.

insideevs.com

 

[rockdog]

This is really amazing, the YangWang can float on river and make U turn on almost zero distance

But it's too expensive to me... around USD160,000...

 

[ym888]

Read this to why China can never innovate under the CCP no matter the amount of dollars it throws. Interest fact: out of 5000 open secrets stealing cases with FBI, 1000 are from China alone. Not a single country in the world would trust China with even the latest screw making technology. LoL. Effectively China has become a technology pariah - an outcaste of the world who now have to do everything by themselves which is impossible under the CCP system.

China’s Grand Theft

Grand theft auto is a persistent crime in America, a felony in most states with jail sentences up to 10 years and a fine of $10,000, depending upon the value of the car and any valuables left inside. Car theft is a lucrative pursuit. Thieves steal an average of 2,400 vehicles a day for a grand...

www.heritage.org

The giant Chinese telecommunications company Huawei, for example, acquired an incredible 56,000 patents on 5G and artificial intelligence without spending much of its own money on R&D. Because of the illegal efforts of China’s far-flung spy ring, Huawei didn’t have to.

no pains, no gains.

As with a company, so with a country

 

[ym888]

WHY DID SAMSUNG TRANSFER 98 OF ITS U.S. PATENTS TO HUAWEI?
NICK JANUARY 7, 2023


Over the past few days, there have been different reports of Samsung and Huawei working together. The report claims that Huawei has given some brands like Samsung and Oppo permission to use some of its 5G and non-5G patents. Now, a new report from The Elec claims that Samsung has just transferred 98 patents it owned in the United States to Huawei last month. This includes the 81 patents that Samsung transferred to Huawei in 2019. So far, the South Korean company has transferred a total of 179 patents to Huawei.

Samsung and Huawei signed a cross licensing deal in 2019 to end their patent dispute. The number of patents that Samsung transferred to Huawei is likely to be worth the difference in their cross licensing deal. This time is likely to be related to the renewal of the agreement. The scope of the patents involved includes patents related to telecommunications, charging, camera, display and others. Some American family patents which are in Korea’s register have also been assigned.
In a cross-licensing deal, sometimes one party pays more license fees than the other party. This is due to differences in the number and quality of patents between the two parties. In 2016, Xiaomi and Microsoft signed a similar cross licensing agreement, with Xiaomi likely paying more because it has fewer patents.
HUAWEI AND SAMSUNG PATENT DISPUTE
The patent dispute between Samsung and Huawei involves telecom related patents, with Huawei owning more patents. Samsung is likely to transfer patents because the cross licensing deal mainly involves 5G patents. In this regard, Samsung has fewer patents than Huawei. Huawei has been working on its patent licensing revenue ever since it suffered various factors to ban and spin off the Honor mobile phone brand. Indeed, the company’s revenue from patents has been increasing.

After Huawei announced the signing of a global patent cross licensing deal with Oppo Guangdong Mobile Communications Co., Ltd. on 5G standards and other essential patent tech, Huawei and Samsung Group have also reached a cross licensing deal on their respective standard essential patent packages.

Patent cross licensing deals usually refers to two or more brands with good patents granting each other licenses for their decent patent rights under certain conditions. Patent cross licensing reflects the parties’ respect for intellectual property rights. At the same time, it reduces the cost of patent use. This is conducive to promoting technical exchanges and research and development. It also provides better products to the market.
SAMSUNG’S MOBILE DIVISION IS FORMING A NEW CHIP DEV. TEAM
Samsung Exynos chips have not been at their best in the mobile phone market. For this reason, Samsung is forced to use Snapdragon high end chips even though it has its own chips. At last month’s Q4 earnings call, Qualcomm revealed that the Galaxy S23 will use the SD8 Gen 2 chip globally. All three coming phones (Samsung Galaxy S23, S23+, and S23 Ultra) have appeared on Geekbench. The Geekbench listing reveals that they all use the Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 chip. However, The Elec believes that Samsung has not given up on its in-house chip development plans.

GIZCHINA NEWS OF THE WEEK

Join GizChina on Telegram
Read Also: Samsung Galaxy S23 Lineup Will Not Have the Most Advanced Displays!

For many years, Samsung sourced the production of its Exynos chips to Samsung’s System LSI division. This is a separate entity from Samsung’s MX (Mobile eXperience) division. According to a new report, Samsung is now forming a new chip/AP dev. team within its mobile division. The unit will be led by executive vice president Choi Won-Joon. He joined Samsung in 2016 from Qualcomm.
There are rumors that Samsung will provide its first exclusive custom chip for the Galaxy S series in 2025. However, at the moment, there is no plan by the company to launch a new Exynos high end chip in 2023 and 2024.
HUAWEI’S NEW PATENT CAN IMPROVE THE EFFICIENCY OF AIRCRAFT AIR TRANSPORTATION
While many know Huawei as a “mobile phone” brand, the Chinese company does much more than mobile phones. Huawei involves in general technology from communication to smart cars. According to the China Patent Pub. Annou. of the State Intellectual Property Office (appl. pub. number: CN115470881A), Huawei Tech. applied for a patent with the title “Method and Device for Determining Aircraft Flight Strategy”. The office has also granted the patent to Huawei Tech.

The abstract of the patent shows that it provides a method and device for determining the flight strategy of an aircraft. The method includes: getting a first model, the first model is gotten based on the first training data, and the first training data includes the first aircraft trial info within a period. The flight state info of at least one-second aircraft within the first period, and the target flight strategy of the first aircraft within the first period. The first parameter is obtained which contains info on all three aircraft in the first period. The flights state info within the second time period and the flight state info of at least one-fourth aircraft within the second time period work together. The first parameter is input into the first model to obtain the flight strategy of the third aircraft.
THE PATENT SUMMARY SHOWS THAT THE METHOD INCLUDES:

• Obtain the first model, the first model is based on the first training data
• Obtain the first parameter according to S620 obtained through training
• Input the first parameter into the first model to obtain the flight strategy of the third aircraft S630

Through this method, the multi agent can autonomously select the route for the aircraft through a large amount of training and learning. It can also adjust the speed of the aircraft on the route. This can also help to optimize the distribution of the flow in the terminal area and improve the efficiency of air transport.

 

[ym888]

A report compiled by Harrity LLP’s Patent 300 list reveals that Huawei claimed the 7th spot in the top US patent players in 2022 with 3023 utility patents with a 3 percent of year increase as compared to 2021.

This is a big improvement for the Chinese tech maker despite being U.S. sanctions. Meanwhile, Huawei is continuously ramping up efforts to increase its R&D and its patent portfolio.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

no pains, no gains.

As with a company, so with a country

Patent mills is not equal to innovation. It is just patent mills. There is a study which says that less than 0.5% of patents have any value at all.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

WHY DID SAMSUNG TRANSFER 98 OF ITS U.S. PATENTS TO HUAWEI?
NICK JANUARY 7, 2023


Over the past few days, there have been different reports of Samsung and Huawei working together. The report claims that Huawei has given some brands like Samsung and Oppo permission to use some of its 5G and non-5G patents. Now, a new report from The Elec claims that Samsung has just transferred 98 patents it owned in the United States to Huawei last month. This includes the 81 patents that Samsung transferred to Huawei in 2019. So far, the South Korean company has transferred a total of 179 patents to Huawei.

Samsung and Huawei signed a cross licensing deal in 2019 to end their patent dispute. The number of patents that Samsung transferred to Huawei is likely to be worth the difference in their cross licensing deal. This time is likely to be related to the renewal of the agreement. The scope of the patents involved includes patents related to telecommunications, charging, camera, display and others. Some American family patents which are in Korea’s register have also been assigned.
In a cross-licensing deal, sometimes one party pays more license fees than the other party. This is due to differences in the number and quality of patents between the two parties. In 2016, Xiaomi and Microsoft signed a similar cross licensing agreement, with Xiaomi likely paying more because it has fewer patents.
HUAWEI AND SAMSUNG PATENT DISPUTE
The patent dispute between Samsung and Huawei involves telecom related patents, with Huawei owning more patents. Samsung is likely to transfer patents because the cross licensing deal mainly involves 5G patents. In this regard, Samsung has fewer patents than Huawei. Huawei has been working on its patent licensing revenue ever since it suffered various factors to ban and spin off the Honor mobile phone brand. Indeed, the company’s revenue from patents has been increasing.

After Huawei announced the signing of a global patent cross licensing deal with Oppo Guangdong Mobile Communications Co., Ltd. on 5G standards and other essential patent tech, Huawei and Samsung Group have also reached a cross licensing deal on their respective standard essential patent packages.

Patent cross licensing deals usually refers to two or more brands with good patents granting each other licenses for their decent patent rights under certain conditions. Patent cross licensing reflects the parties’ respect for intellectual property rights. At the same time, it reduces the cost of patent use. This is conducive to promoting technical exchanges and research and development. It also provides better products to the market.
SAMSUNG’S MOBILE DIVISION IS FORMING A NEW CHIP DEV. TEAM
Samsung Exynos chips have not been at their best in the mobile phone market. For this reason, Samsung is forced to use Snapdragon high end chips even though it has its own chips. At last month’s Q4 earnings call, Qualcomm revealed that the Galaxy S23 will use the SD8 Gen 2 chip globally. All three coming phones (Samsung Galaxy S23, S23+, and S23 Ultra) have appeared on Geekbench. The Geekbench listing reveals that they all use the Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 chip. However, The Elec believes that Samsung has not given up on its in-house chip development plans.

GIZCHINA NEWS OF THE WEEK

Join GizChina on Telegram
Read Also: Samsung Galaxy S23 Lineup Will Not Have the Most Advanced Displays!

For many years, Samsung sourced the production of its Exynos chips to Samsung’s System LSI division. This is a separate entity from Samsung’s MX (Mobile eXperience) division. According to a new report, Samsung is now forming a new chip/AP dev. team within its mobile division. The unit will be led by executive vice president Choi Won-Joon. He joined Samsung in 2016 from Qualcomm.
There are rumors that Samsung will provide its first exclusive custom chip for the Galaxy S series in 2025. However, at the moment, there is no plan by the company to launch a new Exynos high end chip in 2023 and 2024.
HUAWEI’S NEW PATENT CAN IMPROVE THE EFFICIENCY OF AIRCRAFT AIR TRANSPORTATION
While many know Huawei as a “mobile phone” brand, the Chinese company does much more than mobile phones. Huawei involves in general technology from communication to smart cars. According to the China Patent Pub. Annou. of the State Intellectual Property Office (appl. pub. number: CN115470881A), Huawei Tech. applied for a patent with the title “Method and Device for Determining Aircraft Flight Strategy”. The office has also granted the patent to Huawei Tech.

The abstract of the patent shows that it provides a method and device for determining the flight strategy of an aircraft. The method includes: getting a first model, the first model is gotten based on the first training data, and the first training data includes the first aircraft trial info within a period. The flight state info of at least one-second aircraft within the first period, and the target flight strategy of the first aircraft within the first period. The first parameter is obtained which contains info on all three aircraft in the first period. The flights state info within the second time period and the flight state info of at least one-fourth aircraft within the second time period work together. The first parameter is input into the first model to obtain the flight strategy of the third aircraft.
THE PATENT SUMMARY SHOWS THAT THE METHOD INCLUDES:

• Obtain the first model, the first model is based on the first training data
• Obtain the first parameter according to S620 obtained through training
• Input the first parameter into the first model to obtain the flight strategy of the third aircraft S630

Through this method, the multi agent can autonomously select the route for the aircraft through a large amount of training and learning. It can also adjust the speed of the aircraft on the route. This can also help to optimize the distribution of the flow in the terminal area and improve the efficiency of air transport.

Fake news or a spin. Or the patents are worthless. Are you insane? Why would Samsung transfer valuable patents when they have been the victim of the CCP criminals? They are accountable to the South Korean government.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Huawei is dead in the international business says it’s own founder. Rest In Peace Huawei. Next time start a company with no backdoor to the PLA.

Can Huawei thrive despite American sanctions?

Ren Zhengfei, its boss, has big plans

www.economist.com

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

90% of Chinese patents are trash, says this study.Out of the remaining 10%, probably 90% is stolen material. The remaining may have some meager value. Volume games don’t work in innovation. Lol.

https://www.cigionline.org/articles/what-do-chinas-high-patent-numbers-really-mean/

 

[Blademaster]

Huawei is dead in the international business says it’s own founder. Rest In Peace Huawei. Next time start a company with no backdoor to the PLA.

Can Huawei thrive despite American sanctions?

Ren Zhengfei, its boss, has big plans

www.economist.com

Do you honestly think that Apple Iphones and Google Androids are any better? NSA has backdoors to all iPhones and Androids. India needs to mandate an Indian version of the iOS and Android with no backdoors or its own operating system and mandate that no phone, PC, tablet, laptop, server, or mainframe shall be sold with American versions, only Indian versions that have been vetted by an Indian cyber IT firm or agency attesting that no government backdoor to any country exist.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Do you honestly think that Apple Iphones and Google Androids are any better? NSA has backdoors to all iPhones and Androids. India needs to mandate an Indian version of the iOS and Android with no backdoors or its own operating system and mandate that no phone, PC, tablet, laptop, server, or mainframe shall be sold with American versions, only Indian versions that have been vetted by an Indian cyber IT firm or agency attesting that no government backdoor to any country exist.

i thought we had a law which says that data must be stored onsite in India. The problem with Huawei is by CCP law, they MUST share data with the CCP on anyone who uses the phone. There is no such law in the US. So Apple can choose not to share information. The same goes for Google phones. I think both these companies have stored Indian customers data in India. OS platforms are tricky I think. Samsung came up with their own Android substitute but had to abandon it. Creating an OS, getting a wide adoption for it, and constantly updating it for security and new features takes a lot of money and commitment.
Software design is not all that hard. It is nowhere near the complexity of designing a critical industrial part. So, technically we can do it. But the issue is of long term success and adoption over a variety of devices. Existing OS have spread to billions of devices. Let’s say you buy an Android TV, it won’t work well with iPhone. That would happen to India OS as well.
But for critical applications like network gear, sensors, energy distribution, communication and security devices india better have its own OS, or be prepared to be backdoored. iOS and Android can also be hacked by the way. So there is no guarantee.