China Economy: News & Discussion

[NutCracker]

You know exactly why his answer was silly and was done in desperation

I posed this question:
So instead of all these long winded responses of insinuations, fantasies and excuses just show us a picture of an Indian engine powering something that you think represents India's progress or future.

His answer is to find the picture of the Kaveri being tested on a four-engined Il-76 in Russia which basically means the Kaveri cannot fly without three supporting engines

Yes, the WS-10 eventually powered this very early J-10 prototype and did it way back in 2002 too!
View attachment 185608

The Kaveri was never put into in the LCA, the aircraft it was designed for.

I don't believe in trolling other people's thread and callinf them names like you and your friends are doing now

Please let me know when you have a picture of this HTSE powering an actual aircraft.

[
You CCP little pink maggots are also gloating about Turboprop planes just few pages back.

China Economy: News & Discussion

All of the WS engines have sub par performance. And there is no indication that WS13 or WS15 are even flightworthy. Looks like it will take the CCP at least a decade to get there. At that time if India and France have managed to pull off the 125kN engine, then yeah india will have an upper hand...

defenceforumindia.com

If you consider Turboshaft or Turbo prop irrelevant then you also should not make posts about them.

I will surely post once it is installed.

Now since I have told you about HTSE , dont mention SHakti.
You only pretend to know things, your IQ is limited to Google/weibo searching skills only.

Yes, the WS-10 was on multi-engined platforms but eventually powered this very early J-10 prototype and did it way back in 2002 too!

Thanks for telling that even WS-10 wasn't perfect to install directly into single engine testbed.

case closed.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

It's clear this guy is just trolling.

A Chinese person can't "troll" her own threads

I might be trolling the trollers who make silly, illogical and biased posts here in the Chinese economics thread, I guess. I am all for reasonable debate. But calling people names doesn't make for good debate

All I see is him reposting images and claiming China has engines.. anyone with knowledge knows it doesn't work like that .

It really does work that way in the real world. It is called hard evidence Maybe Indian forums are different? Words are better than pictures here because aspirations can't really be photographed?

That's a KJ-500 AWACS and a KQ-200 ASW flying on WJ-6 engines below:

If Xian didn't mass produce those airframes and if the WJ-6s were unable to power them then there would be no pictues

 

[NutCracker]

All I see is him reposting images and claiming China has engines.. anyone with knowledge knows it doesn't work like that .

It really does work that way in the real world. It is called hard evidence Maybe Indian forums are different? Words are better than pictures here because aspirations can't really be photographed?

No, what he meant is that you only copy paste from different websites. You dont carry any knowledge about any single one of these fields.

If you actually had tiny little knowledge about how Engines work, you wont downplay the mentioning of a Indigenous Turboshaft engine.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Wrong concludsion, and we are not that worried.

The data means for those nations USA，China，Japan，Germany most R&D are generated locally, which means their local companies (including the branch of golbal entrprise) are so strong, and it refelcts how weak Indian's local companies on R&D field.

Just one exmaple:

Huawei spent USD$22.4bn R&D on 2021, it's 15% of the whole India's government R&D.

Huawei's R&D investment soars to $22.4bn in 2021

The company's total revenue in 2021 reached $99.9bn, and generated a net profit of $17.8bn.

gulfbusiness.com

India's R&D expenditure is one of the lowest in the world: NITI Aayog

India's gross expenditure on R&D as a percentage of GDP has been lower than Brazil and South Africa.

www.fortuneindia.com

India’s R&D spends amongst the lowest in the world: NITI Aayog study

Indias spending on research and development (R&D) is among the lowest in the world, per a study conducted by government think-tank NITI Aayog and Institute for Competitiveness. R&D investment in India, in fact, has declined from 0.8% of the GDP in 2008–09 to 0.7% in 2017-18.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

What does that R&D produce when the only thing chinks do is steal foreign IPR, while India spends more on R&D than entire ASEAN does, its one of the lowest as %age of GDP for sure but is ever increasing.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

No, what he meant is that you only copy paste from different websites. You dont carry any knowledge about any single one of these fields.

If you actually had tiny little knowledge about how these things work, you wont downplay the mentioning of a Indigenous Turboshaft engine.

I'm no expert but I certainly have more understanding of engines than the Indian posters here!

Seriously, when you see the WS-10 powering J-10, J-11, J-16, J-20 and the J-15 and think it is unreliable (especially when the PLAAF use them to wear down the Japanese and Taiwanese F-15s and F-16s with constant scrambles)? That's not knowledge, it is just opinion

That India can leapfrog an entire Chinese engine industry that produces thousands of engines (and it is thousands because just for WS-10 there are about 800 J-11 and J-16s plus 200 J-20s and they are all twin engined with the J-11B having been fitted with WS-10s since 2009) when India has never even gotten a turbofan into production? That's fantasy talk.

That companies like RR and Safran who spent decades and billions on their tech woukd just gift it to India? Doesn't sound like much knowledge to me

Anyways, turbofans are far more demanding and are the pinnacle of aero engine tech which is why even I know of the Kaveri.

But I certainly don't dismiss turboshafts!

This is the WZ-10 working as the powerplant of the Z-20. Unlike the Shakti it doesn't rely on parts from another country. And unlike the HTSE, it is powering helos right now

 

[rockdog]

What does that R&D produce when the only thing chinks do is steal foreign IPR, while India spends more on R&D than entire ASEAN does, its one of the lowest as %age of GDP for sure but is ever increasing.

You have times population than ASEAN nations, but

Your university rankings are quite low.

Best Universities in India in 2021-2022 | CWUR

Discover the top universities and best colleges in India in 2021-2022. Explore CWUR's list of the best universities and top colleges in India.

cwur.org

The nature index rankings, the are 9 universities from China among Top20.

2022 tables: Institutions - academic | Annual tables | Nature Index

The Nature Index tracks the affiliations of high-quality scientific articles. Updated monthly, the Nature Index presents research outputs by institution and country. Use the Nature Index to interrogate publication patterns and to benchmark research performance.

www.nature.com

 

[NutCracker]

Your university rankings are quite low.

Best Universities in India in 2021-2022 | CWUR

Discover the top universities and best colleges in India in 2021-2022. Explore CWUR's list of the best universities and top colleges in India.

cwur.org

The nature index rankings, the are 9 universities from China from Top20.

2022 tables: Institutions - academic | Annual tables | Nature Index

The Nature Index tracks the affiliations of high-quality scientific articles. Updated monthly, the Nature Index presents research outputs by institution and country. Use the Nature Index to interrogate publication patterns and to benchmark research performance.

www.nature.com

@FalconSlayers Look, he again brought Nature.com

Looks like this CCP little pink maggot didn't read our old bashing of CCP funded Nature.com

China Economy: News & Discussion

Commercial Content at Nature Research Nature Research is a portfolio of high-quality products and services across the life, physical, chemical and applied sciences – including journals, databases and researcher services – dedicated to serving the scientific community. Like most commercial...

defenceforumindia.com

 

[SexyChineseLady]

What does that R&D produce when the only thing chinks do is steal foreign IPR, while India spends more on R&D than entire ASEAN does, its one of the lowest as %age of GDP for sure but is ever increasing.

Having to use racial slurs is a sure sign of a troll!

And frustrated one at that

That Chinese R&D created this:

 

[rockdog]

@FalconSlayers Look, he again brought Nature.com

Looks like this CCP little pink maggot didn't read our old bashing of CCP funded Nature.com

China Economy: News & Discussion

Commercial Content at Nature Research Nature Research is a portfolio of high-quality products and services across the life, physical, chemical and applied sciences – including journals, databases and researcher services – dedicated to serving the scientific community. Like most commercial...

defenceforumindia.com

View attachment 185628

No problem, we also have TCL, Mi and Vivo while you talking about China.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

No problem, we also have TCL and Vivo while you talking about China.

View attachment 185631

Chinese'll take the $942M in high tech exports from the PRC plus another $430M in exports from Hong Kong while Indians spent their time with racial slurs and desperate trolling!

 

[DumbPilot]

No one tell the Chinese that all this "high tech export" is just cheap, outsourced material due to their cheap labor

 

[FalconSlayers]

Your university rankings are quite low.

Best Universities in India in 2021-2022 | CWUR

Discover the top universities and best colleges in India in 2021-2022. Explore CWUR's list of the best universities and top colleges in India.

cwur.org

The nature index rankings, the are 9 universities from China among Top20.

2022 tables: Institutions - academic | Annual tables | Nature Index

The Nature Index tracks the affiliations of high-quality scientific articles. Updated monthly, the Nature Index presents research outputs by institution and country. Use the Nature Index to interrogate publication patterns and to benchmark research performance.

www.nature.com

Paid University Rankings? How is that related to R&D spending?

No problem, we also have TCL and Vivo while you talking about China.

View attachment 185631

Did you post that crap with this?

Vivo and TCL are free to do business here but nobody cares about them sponsoring news programmes, joke's on you that chinese firms sponsor anti-china shows while running in loss selling their trash.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

No one tell the Chinese that all this "high tech export" is just cheap, outsourced material due to their cheap labor

Illogical sour grapes when Indians are paid FAR less

Indian Wages Amongst Most Competitive in Manufacturing Asia - India Briefing News

Now is finally India’s chance to show that it too, like China, can be the workshop of the world and export “Made in India” labels around the globe.

www.india-briefing.com

India High tech exports - data, chart | TheGlobalEconomy.com

India: High technology exports: For that indicator, we provide data for India from 2009 to 2022. The average value for India during that period was 18454.67 million U.S. dollars with a minimum of 10659.48 million U.S. dollars in 2010 and a maximum of 35219.09 million U.S. dollars in 2022. The...

www.theglobaleconomy.com

China	942,314,000,000
Hong Kong	431,628,000,000
India	27,446,000,000

 

[rockdog]

No one tell the Chinese that all this "high tech export" is just cheap, outsourced material due to their cheap labor

India’s Economic Dependence on China

India cannot afford to cut its economic links with China since imports from its northern neighbour dominate sections of the economy, especially in electronics and pharmaceutical intermediates. This is the result of the neglect of domestic industry for decades.

www.theindiaforum.in

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Think about this:

HIGH TECH EXPORTS

China	$942B
Hong Kong	$431B
India	$27B

The technology base of China is such that Chinese high tech exports are 50 times that of India despite Indian labor costs being five times less to use.

China's overwhelming lead in technology and infractructure then leads to automation, advance logistics and industrial scale of production that can't be matched by India's cheap labor or really that of anyone else in the world.

 

[Varzone]

In my personal opinion, india has lot to prove and should silently work towards it than automatically assuming that we will become successful in every endeavour we take.

Lets see it in the flesh with products on the ground and being mass produced and exported.

Till then we have nothing much to say that people will believe. Dont underestimate others achievements just because you are not there yet. First get to the same level and then you can compare with authority and backing of data and facts.

 

[rockdog]

In my personal opinion, india has lot to prove and should silently work towards it than automatically assuming that we will become successful in every endeavour we take.

Lets see it in the flesh with products on the ground and being mass produced and exported.

Till then we have nothing much to say that people will believe. Dont underestimate others achievements just because you are not there yet. First get to the same level and then you can compare with authority and backing of data and facts.

Agree, the "silently" or "loudly" are two different attitude. As i said, i am hiring an Indian outsourcing team and communicate with them everyday.

Indian like to boost 10 when they start to work from 1; Chinese (also Japanese and Korean) normally keeps low profile and only claim 9 when they did 10; there is no right or wrong, just culture differences, it would explains why there are so many Indian top CEOs in western world.

But when you running some industrials for a nation, you need well planning, continousous support for decades, and public only see the result at the last moment. The dominance of Chinese mobile industry, LCD industry, battery industry, EV industry, Solar equipment industry didn't come out overnight, the government kept on subsidised for 10 years and many firms dead during the long match.

That's why when @RoaringTigerHiddenDragon claim "we are going to have this", "we are going to have that" i normally just ignore it, and didn't give a shit. The upgrading of value chain is always tough and complicated, you only have 50:50 chance to win. I rather believe it's culture shock than he is not college educated.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

There definitely a big cultural difference in the way we see value. I think for Indians, it is always the "idea" or "design" as being most important. For Chinese it is the "production" and "infrastructure."

Everyone can dream and think up designs. But China builds the infrastructure so that it could handle and build any design and make ideas into reality

And once that idea is built out, China makes lots and lots of it with the infrastructure in place!

This is the production plant at Shaanxi for the Y-8/Y-9 transports:

There are many, many designs off this base four-engined aircraft powered by a very reliable WJ-6 turboprop. (WJ-6 has gone through many iterations, it is now WJ-6C for production Y-9s):

Many different variants of the base Y-9 transport require a huge industrial base to supply not only the parts to the aircraft but the many parts of the mission instruments!

The eco-system and industrial complex that evolved around the Y-8/Y-9 are used for the production lines of other aircraft like the AGM600:

Constant designing for different variants and constant production create capability and capacity to build new more and more advance types like the carrier-born KJ-600:

All of this from a mass produced airframe plus a mass produced turboprop. The key word is "mass produced" and the industrial infrastructure that goes into mass producing

This is the same for all industries in China not just aircraft and aero engines

 

[Varzone]

There definitely a big cultural difference in the way we see value. I think for Indians, it is always the "idea" or "design" as being most important. For Chinese it is the "production" and "infrastructure."

Everyone can dream and think up designs. But China builds the infrastructure so that it could handle and build any design and make ideas into reality

And once that idea is built out, China makes lots and lots of it with the infrastructure in place!

This is the production plant at Shaanxi for the Y-8/Y-9 transports:View attachment 185724

There are many, many designs off this base four-engined aircraft powered by a very reliable WJ-6 turboprop. (WJ-6 has gone through many iterations, it is now WJ-6C for production Y-9s):
View attachment 185725
View attachment 185726

Many different variants of the base Y-9 transport require a huge industrial base to supply not only the parts to the aircraft but the many parts of the mission instruments!
View attachment 185727
View attachment 185729

The eco-system and industrial complex that evolved around the Y-8/Y-9 are used for the production lines of other aircraft like the AGM600:
View attachment 185728

Constant designing for different variants and constant production create capability and capacity to build new more and more advance types like the carrier-born KJ-600:
View attachment 185730

All of this from a mass produced airframe plus a mass produced turboprop. The key word is "mass produced" and the industrial infrastructure that goes into mass producing

This is the same for all industries in China not just aircraft and aero engines

View attachment 185731

There are strengths in manufacturing and experience but then India has its own advantages.

Namely the covid response where we exported vaccines made in india both of UK design and of Indian origin design.
Whereas China imported the vaccine from Germany and then manufactured their own vaccine but with much lower immunity for lower number of variants.
China has a covid app for every region of China whereas India had a unified pan India app with complete data analytics accessible for all states and Union Territories.
India is ahead in digitisation. China needs to do better and can since they have the data but the skeleton over it is not that great.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

There are strengths in manufacturing and experience but then India has its own advantages.

Namely the covid response where we exported vaccines made in india both of UK design and of Indian origin design.
Whereas China imported the vaccine from Germany and then manufactured their own vaccine but with much lower immunity for lower number of variants.
China has a covid app for every region of China whereas India had a unified pan India app with complete data analytics accessible for all states and Union Territories.
India is ahead in digitisation. China needs to do better and can since they have the data but the skeleton over it is not that great.

India definitely has its strengths but I am not sure those are shown in the Covid vaccines or digitization.

Both China and India produced and exported the same kind of local vaccines with China exported a lot more of it:

As far as digitization, China is very much ahead and it is part and parcel of its lead in high tech products:

These countries rank highest for digital competitiveness | World Economic Forum