AWACS will change Asia's military dynamics

[SATISH]

understans ding the true capabilityof a phalcon system is to say the least is difficult.For example any aicraft in pakistai air space can be tracked not just when in air but also when it is moving on runway ,its complete flight profile ,patrol altitude,comunication frequency -patrol duration will be recorded and analyzed to accurately predict how it will fly in combat and for how long and most likely ingress/egress path -that is a generation leap in air combat guys

Mate I would kindly ask you to get out of your mindset of only looking at Pakistan and look towards the other threats we will face. Be prepared for future combat.

 

[shankarosky]

Pakistan is just an example -AWACS will play a pivotal role in any conflict with china -allowing us much needed advance warning when a raid is developing both in iar and in ground -allowing counter moves by the air force/army towards the threat . The powerful synthetic aperture radar on boards A-50 Phalcon will tell the ground commander the composition and co ordinates of the advancing formation and also inform air battle commander to divert /launch suitable defensive missions on time and then guide those aircraft in air on real time basis to the most favorable intercept position

 

[SATISH]

Pakistan is just an example -AWACS will play a pivotal role in any conflict with china -allowing us much needed advance warning when a raid is developing both in iar and in ground -allowing counter moves by the air force/army towards the threat . The powerful synthetic aperture radar on boards A-50 Phalcon will tell the ground commander the composition and co ordinates of the advancing formation and also inform air battle commander to divert /launch suitable defensive missions on time and then guide those aircraft in air on real time basis to the most favorable intercept position

You are making a mistake there. The AWACS have the commander on board. Command and Control are an integral part of AWAC...I am telling we must not have only AWACS up there but also a number of AEW&C too. Phalcon(even 6 in number) alone arent enough we need total air space to be covered and a full network between the bases, fighters and the HVA must be interconnected.

 

[sayareakd]

what we need is full network centric oprations in all the three force, AWAC is good addition, but what we need to home grown answer to awac, since we cannot have foreign awacs in such great numbers.

satish, can AWACs make ground map of the entire area and even indentify movements enemy army and navy forces ???

 

[SATISH]

what we need is full network centric oprations in all the three force, AWAC is good addition, but what we need to home grown answer to awac, since we cannot have foreign awacs in such great numbers.

satish, can AWACs make ground map of the entire area and even indentify movements enemy army and navy forces ???

Yes saya with the SAR radar and Ground mapping radars onboard the Phalcon it can. They can only detect troops moving in platoon levels and brigade levels or larger. The COMMINT and SIGINT are characteristic features of Phalcon and the Wedgetail. That is why the Phalcon is the next best thing after Wedgetail. That is why the Americans didnt want the Israelis to sell it to the Chinese.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Can AWACs make ground map of the entire area and even indentify movements enemy army and navy forces ???

Sayareakd,
AWACs can make make ground map of the entire area and even indentify movements enemy army and navy forces. What you are asking is already operational in USAF known asJoint STARS.

 

[shankarosky]

sure we need a dozen awacs 4+8 for western and eastern sectors .The detaction range of awacs is 500km+ (a-50 phalcon) so two in air covers the entire western front and two stays in reserve to rotate .
the air battle commander is responsible for control of air battle in progress -normally he does not interfear in alnd battles and the assets involved are too large for effective control by a single commander but he controls the close air support aircraft or fleet defense aircraft in case of a maritime stike misison through area battle comander /fleet command ship

 

[SATISH]

sure we need a dozen awacs 4+8 for western and eastern sectors .The detaction range of awacs is 500km+ (a-50 phalcon) so two in air covers the entire western front and two stays in reserve to rotate .
the air battle commander is responsible for control of air battle in progress -normally he does not interfear in alnd battles and the assets involved are too large for effective control by a single commander but he controls the close air support aircraft or fleet defense aircraft in case of a maritime stike misison through area battle comander /fleet command ship

Well that is going to be done by the Naval AEW&C...The E-2D Hawkeye is said to be the frontrunner for the IN AEW&C fleet.

 

[p2prada]

Well that is going to be done by the Naval AEW&C...The E-2D Hawkeye is said to be the frontrunner for the IN AEW&C fleet.

Well, The Hawkeye is the only Carrier AEW&C operational till date.

 

[SATISH]

Well, The Hawkeye is the only Carrier AEW&C operational till date.

But IN is said to be going for the ground based fleet...

 

[Dark Sorrow]

India is reviving the development of an indigenous Airborne Early Warning And Control System (AEWACS), which it had abandoned in 1999. “We have submitted a proposal to build an AEWACS with a next-generation active phased-array radar installed on a smaller aircraft, unlike the rotating antenna in the earlier Airborne Surveillance Platform (ASP),” said K.U. Limaye, director, Centre for Air Borne Systems (CABS). Limaye, who is also Director of the Electronics and Radar Development Establishment (LRDE) of the state-owned Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO), added that the airborne radar could be integrated on a Brazilian Embraer 145 aircraft.

The new AEWACS' mission avionics and sensors will be integrated via a dual MIL-STD 1533 B digital databus, with software programmes providing tactical aids, cues and alerts. The mission system will provide automatic radar control, automatic detection and track initiation, reduced false alarms, improved track continuity, sensor and databus fusion and modern communications management. It will also provide adaptive tracking performance, fast track update rate, reliable local situation display and computer-assisted decisions.

The LRDE-developed roof-mounted radar will be an active phased-array, pulse compression, Doppler radar operating in the S-band. The fixed antenna, with extremely low sidelobe levels, will comprise 200 transmitter/receiver modules mounted on top of the aircraft's fuselage. The best range performance will be achieved in a 150 degree sector sideways, with the performance reduced in forward and aft directions outside of this sector. The instrumented range will be 243nm and the typical detection range for a combat aircraft-sized contact will be 190nm. The radar's electronically scanning beam will be controlled by an automatic and intelligent energy management system which will optimise the beam position and compared to conventional, rotodome solutions, will provide quicker detection verification, increased tracking range, and improved tracking performance even for highly manoeuvring targets.

Work on the ASP's Technology Demonstrator (TD) began in earnest and the first flight of the TD, an Avro HS-748 twin-turboprop aircraft equipped with a rotodome fabricated by BAE Systems, took place in November 1991 at the ASTE's Bangalore facility. By 1994, the LRDE and state-owned Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) had completed development and fabrication of the ASP's radar and related electronics and a fresh round of technology evaluation and flight testing got underway, following a funding of Rs 250 million from the DRDO. By mid-1996, work on most aspects of the AWACS project had been completed, and the LRDE radar demonstrated an effective range of 300km when called upon to detect a low-flying target cruising at Mach 1.5 speed. However, the sole ASP TD perished in a fatal crash at Arrakonam near Chennai in January 1999, killing eight personnel, and the ASWAC project was consequently put on hold.


-- From Force Magazine - April 2004


Within two months of signing the $1.1-billion Phalcon Airborne Early Warning and Control Systems contract, India is looking to revive its own $400-million AWACS project.

To be called the Mini-AWACS system, the project harkens back to the indigenous airborne surveillance platform (ASP) effort shelved by India's Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) in 1999 after a modified Avro HS-748 crashed, killing four scientists and four air force officers on board. The accident was blamed on a rotodome that blew off, indicating a failure in the modification process.

However, this time DRDO is expected to mount the Mini-AWACS' phased-array radar on an in-production executive jet, according to K.U. Limaye, director of the Electronics and Radar Development Establishment and head of CABS. An experimental radar is already in testing, he added.



-- India's Big AWACS Plans; Mini-concept provides another chance to use research begun in 1999 from AWST - April 2004


In addition to these India has been offered full transfer of technology of the latest Super Hornet's AN/APG-79 AESA radar technology if it chooses the Super Hornet in its presently active 9 billion $ tender.

 

[p2prada]

But IN is said to be going for the ground based fleet...

When I mean carrier capable, I also mean it is the only AEW&C capable of withstanding the marine environment. IN cannot use it on the smaller carriers in operation at present. We don't have a choice at the moment. Hawkeye it is, along with a lot of technology denial and downgrades.

 

[John]

Well that is going to be done by the Naval AEW&C...The E-2D Hawkeye is said to be the frontrunner for the IN AEW&C fleet.

well depends, the IN is very interested in V-22 which is also available in AEW &C variants, we'll have to wait and see what will the IN want. SH is gr8 as well because it too has max. detection range over 500km and hence can play AWACS roles while defending itself.

TRISHUL: V-22 Osprey For IAF & Indian Navy?

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Indian AESA Radar parts on display

 

[shankarosky]

v-22 oespray is a mechanics nightmare -apart from special forces insertion it does not have any advantage not provided by ka 31

 

[venom]

V-22 Can be used by IN carriers where as E-2D cannot.....

 

[shankarosky]

V-22 Can be used by IN carriers where as E-2D cannot.....
__________________

well technically it can be used -but considering even USN is not using them in AEW role -there must be serious draw back apart from high cost

 

[RPK]

Air Force Day on Oct 8 to feature AWACS

IAF to display AWACS for the first time during Air Force Day

New Delhi: For the first time, the Indian Air Force (IAF) will put its newly inducted Israeli-made Phalcon Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AWACS) on display during the Air Force Day parade on October 8.

IAF officials at the Western Air Command (WAC) said in New Delhi on Friday that the AWACS, which were inducted in May this year, would be on flying display during the 77th Air Force Day parade.


The parade itself will, as in the recent years, take place at the Hindan airbase in Ghaziabad when the IAF would flying a total of 54 aircraft that would include its most potent fighters such as Su-30MKI, Mirage-2000, and MiG-29s.

The 'Surya Kiran' Aerobatics Team on Kiran MkII trainer aircraft and the 'Sarang' Helicopter Aerobatics Team on their indigenous Dhruv helicopters would also perform their stunts at the parade.

Air Chief Marshal PV Naik will take the salute and the parade would be witnessed among others by Marshal of the Air Force, Arjan Singh, Army Chief General Deepak Kapoor and Navy Chief Admiral Nirmal Verma.

 

[IBRIS]

Air Force Day on Oct 8 to feature AWACS

26 Sep 2009 PIB: The Indian Air Force celebrates its 77th anniversary on 08 Oct 2009. An air display by various aircraft will form part of the Air Force Day Parade cum Investiture Ceremony at Air Force Hindon. The air display will commence with Para Motor and powered Hang Glider performance followed by flag bearing sky divers of Akash Ganga Team dropping out of an AN-32 aircraft .

The commencement of the Air Force Day Parade will be marked by fly past of three Mi-17 helicopters in Vic formation trooping the Air Force Ensign at a height of 60 Mtrs and speed of 80 Kmph. A Chakra formation comprising of three Mi-25 / Mi-35 would follow. This will be followed by a Spectrum comprising of one Dornier in the lead with two AVRO and two AN-32 aircraft in echelon position on wither side. The spectators would see for the very first time the AWACS (Airborne Early Warning and Control Systems) aircraft which would be escorted by two SU-30 MKI.

The fighter fly past will be led by three Jaguars in Vic formation closely followed by Vic formation of three each Bison (Mig-21), Baaz (Mig-29), Vajra (Mirage 2000) aircraft and a SU-30 MKI aircraft. One Sukhoi aircraft of the formation will then carry out four turn in Vertical Charlie manoeuvre. The grand finale would be marked by aerobatics by Sarang ALH team followed by synchronized low level maneuvering the close formation by HJT-16 aircraft of the Surya Kiran Aerobatics Team (SKAT).
8ak - Indian Defence News: Air Force Day on Oct 8 to feature AWACS

If anyone gets there hands on the pictures of this occation. Please post them here. THANKS

 

[A.V.]

eagerly waiting for the event , any members of dfi present here please update us on the event atlest with your photos it would be really encouraging