Astra BVRAAM

[abhay rajput]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but i guess india bought the R-77 (80)km variant which is totally inferior to Astra Mk1 and for R-73 we don't have any indigenous alternative.

These include air-to-air missiles with an extended range as well air-to-surface missiles, ThePrint has learnt.

Highly placed sources said close to 300 short-range air-to-air missiles, the R-73, and 400 medium-range air-to-air guided missiles, the RVV-AE, also known as the R-77, have been ordered.

We bought r73, r27 and r77sd variants . We had no r77sd in our inventory

 

[Assassin 2.0]

No bro meteor has two way data links capability but it is Rafale who doesn't.
My two brother works in IAF and army.. basically my whole family is in military except navy but I had flatfoot .. he never told me what he do in IAF although but he did came to see us in Delhi after riots and I asked him a lot of questions , and his exact words about Astra were -" Astra is very good replacement for older r77".

Niceeee buddy this means you can go to lots of airforce day shows :biggrin2:

 

[abhay rajput]

Niceeee buddy this means you can go to lots of airforce day shows :biggrin2:

I don't usually I am busy with my job and children's as they are quite young. Honestly since my kid was born there are no holidays.. you will understand the day you will have kid..

 

[Assassin 2.0]

No you are right. India is working on NGASRM, but nothing right now.

Also only Derby is comparable to RVV-AE right now, with only Tejas having access to it.

.........................

 

[abhay rajput]

Oh ok. Unless he works directly under the Astra testing team, he doesn't know much concrete inside info.

If Astra is officially declared to be of similar capability as AIM-120-C5, it can match R-77M in range. Performance parameters may vary within the envelope, with that better in some respects and Astra better in some, but no way in hell it is not comparable.
No you are right. India is working on ASRAAM, but nothing presently.

Also only Derby is comparable to RVV-AE right now, with only Tejas having access to it.

Astra weight is quite comparable to aim120c5 so does there range. Chinese have there own Astra from a long time with some extra range. Remember people weight do matter in AAM.. the future for bvr is ramjet and dual pulse motors.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Astra weight is quite comparable to aim120c5 so does there range. Chinese have there own Astra from a long time with some extra range. Remember people weight do matter in AAM.. the future for bvr is ramjet and dual pulse motors.

Yeah weight will matter alot coz a heavy missile cannot do maneuvers.
That's the reason why long range air to air (awacs killer ) missiles cannot be used to kill jets.

But i have my doubts about Chinese air to air missiles.

 

[abhay rajput]

Yeah weight will matter alot coz a heavy missile cannot do maneuvers.
That's the reason why long range air to air (awacs killer ) missiles cannot be used to kill jets.

But i have my doubts about Chinese air to air missiles.

Yes but it depends on aerodynamic of missiles. For example r27 is quite heavy missiles(250kg) than r77 but there maneuverability is quite similar although r77 is still more maneuverable than r27. Newer Chinese missiles are a challenge because of there indigenous manufacturing .. the biggest problem IAF will suffer in war is AAM life-span in flight. R77 lifespan is 10-20 sorties at Best after that it needs checking and replacement of few parts especially batteries

 

[BON PLAN]

Well he also said for fighter size planes the range is75km and for bigger planes it is 120km, what he meant by that?
Does it mean in agility and maneuverability scenario or in seeker lock range scenario?
If that is the case then the pakis prediction is already wrong.
Because for hit they must have came within the range of 70kms that mean within the range of 77km but we don't know the range of r-77 for fighter size aircraft?
It opens whole lot of points.

The sole interesting data is the No Evade Zone.
An AMRAAM on a baliistical trajectory, after a high altitude and high speed lauch may reach 150 or 200Km maybe (or more...). But with the terminal agility of a stone.

 

[BON PLAN]

I am waiting for dual pulse Astra. Are there any dual pulse BVR's in international market.

ASRAAM has a dual pulse motor if I remember well.
MICA NG will have it.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

By these and you will be never be able to correctly counter Pakistanis advantages in BVRM.
I dunno why foreign ka maal lovers are not ordering more Astra?

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

By these and you will be never be able to correctly counter Pakistanis advantages in BVRM.
I dunno why foreign ka maal lovers are not ordering more Astra?

May because Astra cant match Amraam C5

R27 ET and ER have ranges in excess of 100km .

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[Assassin 2.0]

May because Astra cant match Amraam C5

R27 ET and ER have ranges in excess of 100km .

Sent from my HD1901 using Tapatalk

That's certainly not the case R-27ER
Firing range, km:
max100
min100
Launch weight, kg350
Warhead weight, kg39

This information is from OEM.
Astra is having 10km edge over this missile too and We have specific reports which say likewise too astra is having range of 110KM armed with state of the art counter electronic warfare system. Cause Chinese already have these Russian missiles were as astra is totally new in the game.

I think it's as usual import lobby at work.

 

[Kchontha]

Import lobby is at work for every defence equipments purchase.

 

[south block]

That's certainly not the case R-27ER
Firing range, km:
max100
min100
Launch weight, kg350
Warhead weight, kg39

This information is from OEM.
Astra is having 10km edge over this missile too and We have specific reports which say likewise too astra is having range of 110KM armed with state of the art counter electronic warfare system. Cause Chinese already have these Russian missiles were as astra is totally new in the game.

I think it's as usual import lobby at work.

Look like russian missile's are still superior to both Chinese & Indian one for now at least --- both in propulsion as well as seeker --- Indian military is not stupid --- why do you think R-77-1 was inducted if Astra was superior? & Why AF is splitting order with half having Indian seeker & half russian?.

 

[BON PLAN]

Astra is having 10km edge over this missile too and We have specific reports which say likewise too astra is having range of 110KM

A range of 110Km for Astra means very low terminal agility, because at the end of a ballistic trajectory.
May be potent against a big and slow moving target. Never against a fighter.

 

[BON PLAN]

Look like russian missile's are still superior to both Chinese & Indian one for now at least --- both in propulsion as well as seeker --- Indian military is not stupid --- why do you think R-77-1 was inducted if Astra was superior? & Why AF is splitting order with half having Indian seeker & half russian?.

I think Astra is a too young and not mature enough product. So IAF want a dual and proven source to be sure.
In the coming years you can be sure that the imported part will be far lower, once the confident in the indigenously produced missiles will grow.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

A range of 110Km for Astra means very low terminal agility, because at the end of a ballistic trajectory.
May be potent against a big and slow moving target. Never against a fighter.

Why?
Then by that scenario r-77 and amraams too fail.

Look like russian missile's are still superior to both Chinese & Indian one for now at least --- both in propulsion as well as seeker --- Indian military is not stupid --- why do you think R-77-1 was inducted if Astra was superior? & Why AF is splitting order with half having Indian seeker & half russian?.

The answer of this is given pages back I urge you to go and search it.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

A range of 110Km for Astra means very low terminal agility, because at the end of a ballistic trajectory.
May be potent against a big and slow moving target. Never against a fighter.

Brother then that is the case with AMRAAM - 120C and R-77 too. Astra uses a smokeless solid fuelled motor that can propel the missile to a speed of Mach 4.5 and allows operation from a maximum altitude of 20 km (66,000 ft). The maximum range of Astra is 110 km (68 mi) in head-on chase mode and 20 km (12 mi) in tail chase mode.
In chase mode it's very hard to out maneuver it. But the peak end of it's range it will fall short just like The AMRAAM - 120C which pakistan used against india.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

I think Astra is a too young and not mature enough product. So IAF want a dual and proven source to be sure.
In the coming years you can be sure that the imported part will be far lower, once the confident in the indigenously produced missiles will grow.

What's the use of 80Km range R-77 which was already a lacking factor in previous skirmish. It's totally inferior to Astra Mk1 IAF have already tested Astra missile 25 times 50 limited production orders are already given and per unit cost of astra without mass manufacturing is comparable to R-77.
But yes a single jet armed with two totally different BVRM makes electronic warfare more different but I'm not happy with slow procurement of Astra.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Look like russian missile's are still superior to both Chinese & Indian one for now at least --- both in propulsion as well as seeker --- Indian military is not stupid --- why do you think R-77-1 was inducted if Astra was superior? & Why AF is splitting order with half having Indian seeker & half russian?.

Go to previous page IAF chief himself said that Astra is comparable to AMRAAM - 120C in capabilities.
Yeah yeah what about electronic warfare as far as we know Chinese have access to every single Russian BVRAAM missiles. They can work to build Rapid counter measure against it whereas astra is totally different stuff.