Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[bengalraider]

saya is right the design of the arjun and the T series differs basically in the context of design philosophy the arjun was designed to take hits and hit back the T -90 was designed to avoid them, this is evident from the type of war both were designed for while the entire T series was designed for a rapid armoured thrust into NATO's European heartland(before American reinforcements could arrive) the Leopard(the genetic predecessor to the Arjun was designed to blunt that thrust and stop it cold!

 

[Godless-Kafir]

German tank design is the worst in the world. That is one of the key reasons they lost the battle in WW-II, they are simply over engineered to a point that they are such good individual tanks but they can never be mass produced. The germans could not simply try and make more tanks at the rate Russian T-50s where rolling out.The Russians tanks where simple in design,lite and they pioneered the slope Armour in the T-50, so they where very easy to mass produce in times of war and even more easier to train the crews.

If we rely on the Arjun during war it will definitely clog the assembly line with its many complex parts like the hydraulic suspension, along with many imported parts that cant even be machined here.

 

[gogbot]

German tank design is the worst in the world. That is one of the key reasons they lost the battle in WW-II, they are simply over engineered to a point that they are such good individual tanks but they can never be mass produced. The germans could not simply try and make more tanks at the rate Russian T-50s where rolling out.The Russians tanks where simple in design,lite and they pioneered the slope Armour in the T-50, so they where very easy to mass produce in times of war and even more easier to train the crews.

If we rely on the Arjun during war it will definitely clog the assembly line with its many complex parts like the hydraulic suspension, along with many imported parts that cant even be machined here.

This is a baseless argument and also wrong.

In WWII , german tanks were bombed , Ran out fuel , and all ran out of tanks (because production lines kept coming under attack by Allies air raids, the Germans lost more of their air force over Britan , Eventually the Allies had attained Air supremacy). But despite all this shortcomings. Germans tanks were outnumbered 1 : 24. And in order to even the playing field , each German tank had to destroy 24 allied and soviet tanks, records at the end of the war showed that For every German tank taked out , the allies and Soviets had lost 21 tanks.

India's Arjun MBT is half a century ahead in terms of technology and production line. It's stupid argument that German Production problem of the early 1940's taken out of context will effect India
There is no technical reason as why Arjun can't be mass produced(the statement on German tank design is fully ignored and also false).

The Only obstacle to Arjun's mass production is the Indian army.

 

[gogbot]

Sayare, Still i dont understand why the Arjun havent applied the sloped armour tech and went for a conventional design?

Arjun has horizontally slopping Armour on the Front. There is also some Vertical sloping but not to a major degree.

Why the sides are not slopped.
A sloped turret from all angels is design choice and a requirement.
Sloping the Armour can either reduce the weight or reduce the space inside the tank.

Stuff like this is also part of the tank evolution process. You have seen the slopped Armour upgrades from the Leo.
You Will find Similar one's on future Arjuns.

 

[Yatharth Singh]

BTW i even measure the armor plate on Arjun and T72 tank and they are really world a part. :special13:

Is there any difference between the design of Arjun MK1 AND MK2 or it just the features that will differ?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Arjun has horizontally slopping Armour on the Front. There is also some Vertical sloping but not to a major degree.

Why the sides are not slopped.
A sloped turret from all angels is design choice and a requirement.
Sloping the Armour can either reduce the weight or reduce the space inside the tank.

Stuff like this is also part of the tank evolution process. You have seen the slopped Armour upgrades from the Leo.
You Will find Similar one's on future Arjuns.

All new generation tanks have add-on slope configuration :

Russian T-90S : The sloped feature on front Armour of T-90 is K-5 heavy ERA, Behind the ERA its more like Arjun in looks..

PLA`s type99 : The sloped feature on front armour of type 99 is are made of composite Armour, behind these features, The frontal armour ofi type 99 is not very different from Arjun`s look..

German LEO2e : The Sloped feature on front armour of LEO2 is said to be Spaced Armour or composites, behind its sloped feature its same as old LEO2..

 

[Agantrope]

Arjun has horizontally slopping Armour on the Front. There is also some Vertical sloping but not to a major degree.

Why the sides are not slopped.
A sloped turret from all angels is design choice and a requirement.
Sloping the Armour can either reduce the weight or reduce the space inside the tank.

Stuff like this is also part of the tank evolution process. You have seen the slopped Armour upgrades from the Leo.
You Will find Similar one's on future Arjuns.

I got enlightenment from my source. As Saya said arjun is specially designed for the Hit-survive pattern of tanks. For most of the modern tanks, the top is weakness, but with that heavy turret design that has been addressed. Arjun can be compared as big brother of Japs Type-10, but again that is a conventional sloped armour for the distraction of the missiles, where as this is not in arjun and it proved worth the design.

A dilly belly tank with heavy coat (PT-91)

Moreover as Saya, mentioned Arjun doesn't need any ERA Tiles as the Arjun skin is strong to survive the 3 T-90s hit in the point blank.

@yatharth, MK-2 will employ the Modular ceramic tech in the Kanchan Armour. This will help arjun to reduce its weight by 5-7 tonnes. It will have the same turret design as well as other, no major structural changes will happen

 

[sayareakd]

well some of you guys would probably want to see armour like this

this is markava 4 from Israel.

Personally i love the design philosophy of the markava 4, with the engine in front and space for the 5-6 soldiers a part from crew inside the tank, it multi side angular amour turret and finally modular design is great achievement for the country of israel.

Love to few of these in IA.

 

[Tshering22]

Some reports say that it has already been tested clandestinely by the IA officials and have not been found suitable for our desert conditions in Rajasthan. I've been to adjoining Jordan on an expedition and have also noticed that the sand there in that region of middle east is pretty different from what we have here in Rajasthan. There was a 2009 report that revealed in I think Jane's or something else where IA was rumored to have tested the Merkava IV and not found it suitable.

 

[Tshering22]

Ok, let me clear. Army ordered the second batch of the Mark-I of the Arjun Tanks. Only by 2012 the prototype of Mk-II will roll out.
As sayare said batch-2 will be able to fire the LAHAT/CLGM Heli rounds.

I urge the mods to change the Title of this thread.

Thanks for the clarification man. But you know something really bothers me: Why IA, IN and IAF have kept everything ceremoniously for 2012? It's such an irony that while certain Western prophecies predict 2012 as doomsday and Armageddon, our armed forces are actually going to have a Hay Day getting new gizmos and firepower packs..:emot15:

 

[Tshering22]

Their can be lots of Update can be done on Arjun MK-1..

1. Updating with heavy Era on front like Russian/Ukrainian way..
2. Use of Euro Lepa4 update as Arjun degin based on LeoA4, If requested this can be done in JV with IBD & DRDO..

IBD Deisenroth Engineering - MBT Evolution

With 1500hp it can easily move and nothing can penetrate it for next 20years..

Oh man! I knew that Singapore was armed well, but this is wayy too armed. For a tiny island city-state they're really packed-up. :emot112:

If we do the right calculations and take that compared to our proportion, we must be armed better than Chinese at this rate already rather than 10 years down the lane.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

This is a baseless argument and also wrong.

In WWII , german tanks were bombed , Ran out fuel , and all ran out of tanks (because production lines kept coming under attack by Allies air raids, the Germans lost more of their air force over Britan , Eventually the Allies had attained Air supremacy). But despite all this shortcomings. Germans tanks were outnumbered 1 : 24. And in order to even the playing field , each German tank had to destroy 24 allied and soviet tanks, records at the end of the war showed that For every German tank taked out , the allies and Soviets had lost 21 tanks.

India's Arjun MBT is half a century ahead in terms of technology and production line. It's stupid argument that German Production problem of the early 1940's taken out of context will effect India
There is no technical reason as why Arjun can't be mass produced(the statement on German tank design is fully ignored and also false).

The Only obstacle to Arjun's mass production is the Indian army.

Do you have some deficiency in understanding? I said exactaly the same thing you are saying, the german tanks where out numbered, i agree! They where outnumbered because of the complicated design. The Arjun was designed by the same designer who did the Leopard 2A4 and shares all the same over engineering of the germans. You do know people call German stuff as over engineered right? or is that also vague and new for you?

Please watch this video, its not just me or this one video but everyone knows why the Russians had the edge in tank design. Your arguing against not just me put a popular and well established belief in the west. So hold your horses.
YouTube - Tank Battle Of Kursk WWII part 2-6

 

[Agantrope]

Do you have some deficiency in understanding? I said exactaly the same thing you are saying, the german tanks where out numbered, i agree! They where outnumbered because of the complicated design. The Arjun was designed by the same designer who did the Leopard 2A4 and shares all the same over engineering of the germans. You do know people call German stuff as over engineered right? or is that also vague and new for you?

Please watch this video, its not just me or this one video but everyone knows why the Russians had the edge in tank design. Your arguing against not just me put a popular and well established belief in the west. So hold your horses.
YouTube - Tank Battle Of Kursk WWII part 2-6

If you watched the video properly they would have clearly mentioned about the technologies that German havent tested properly and then they bite the dust, nothing to take away the credits of the soviet industrial capability.

 

[Agantrope]

Thanks for the clarification man. But you know something really bothers me: Why IA, IN and IAF have kept everything ceremoniously for 2012? It's such an irony that while certain Western prophecies predict 2012 as doomsday and Armageddon, our armed forces are actually going to have a Hay Day getting new gizmos and firepower packs..:emot15:

Might be the day we are boot kicking the *ss of our adversary strongly, mean it with damn thrust :emot180:

 

[Godless-Kafir]

If you watched the video properly they would have clearly mentioned about the technologies that German havent tested properly and then they bite the dust, nothing to take away the credits of the soviet industrial capability.

Thats what i said! Germans had classy and beautiful tanks but where hard to manufacture.

Why do you repeat that to me?

 

[gogbot]

Do you have some deficiency in understanding?

Funny enough , i felt the same way when i replied to you.

the german tanks where out numbered, i agree! They where outnumbered because of the complicated design. The Arjun was designed by the same designer who did the Leopard 2A4 and shares all the same over engineering of the germans. You do know people call German stuff as over engineered right? or is that also vague and new for you?

Please watch this video, its not just me or this one video but everyone knows why the Russians had the edge in tank design. Your arguing against not just me put a popular and well established belief in the west. So hold your horses.
YouTube - Tank Battle Of Kursk WWII part 2-6

look , this is way of topic.
German tank design and tank production of the 1940's , Just because they say this and that in few documentaries does not mean they are telling you the absolute truth.
The Germans had three Primary tanks in the war
The Panzer , Tiger and Panther. For the first half of the War when the Germans were Winning they had the Panzer tank , A Medium tank with which they conquered most of Europe(easily mass produced and existed in sufficient numbers).
Until they had to come face to Face with The new soviet tanks, which were unchallenged on the battlefield(They were also the first to introduce slanted Armour) , the only tank the German's had to counter this threat was the still in development Tiger tank(the heaviest tank every made). And for year this tank remained completely indestructible to other tanks , but it was rushed into service to face the New series of Soviet T tanks. As a result it had numerous issues , including production. But it was a feat of engineering to even get something like that onto the battlefield(So much so that neither the soviets or the Allies could produce a counter).
The Germans then followed up with the Panther tank , combining the Success of the Tiger , Incorporating soviet slanting Armour . And one that was designed to be Mass produced. Unlike the Tiger this was not rushed in as fast. But by the time it was ready , the Germans were already suffering from Nigh time air raids , and in the following months they would be short on all resources. Supply lines will be cut , Factories will be bombed.

The only reason the Germans could not mass produce all their super weapon(which included jet fighters , super tanks(King Tiger) and a whole array of nasty surprises). is because the allies did such brilliant job at belong up all the factories. By the end of it the Germans probably lost as many tanks because they ran of out fuel , as they did being bombed by the Air force.

This whole German over engineered non sense is an elaborate farce t cover up their own shot coming in designing excellent machines
, the first thing the Allies and soviet did when they got to Germany was raid the Nazi cookbook of all their designs and technology then take all that along with the German engineers and Scientists back to their laboratories.

Bottom line The German Tank design as whole is does not create a problem with mass production.
Mass production problems in the 1940's came about due to a sway of other problems

Also all that has nothing to do with the Arjun.

Just because the Arjun had design consultation by a German does not mean It is a German tank. The tank was engineered by Indian teams.
It was developed over at least 2 decades in Indian laboratory's , It's probably gone through Multiple re-designs. IT shares similarity's with the Leopard series , but it is not a Leopard tank.
More than half of the stuff used to make the tank is Of Indian origin, The only major German made system in the tank is the Engine. Which are shipped here from Germany.
WE could make them here if the Army ever ordered enough tanks. Another major import is the Transmission for the tank ,but we are trialing a local variant for that as well.

You keep talking about Germans over engineering this and that causing mass production problems , what did the Germans engineer in the Arjun , most of the engineering work was done by indians , design and development of all system made in India are done by Indians. sure we import a few items from Germany , the only things that are actually engineered by Germans.

There is no Mass production problems with the Arjun
And German Engineering as a whole is not cursed with Mass production issues , there are many examples in various field from tanks to Automobiles to planes where Mass production and German engineering excellence went hand in hand.

 

[Agantrope]

Thats what i said! Germans had classy and beautiful tanks but where hard to manufacture.

Why do you repeat that to me?

Buddy, 1 Lion can take 10 pigs in a go...

 

[IBRIS]

Buddy, 1 Lion can take 10 pigs in a go...

But i'v seen wild Hog chasing a lion.

 

[nranandkumar]

Every say drdo has wasted years in developing a Tank but every one should see to that even the russians and americans got the tank concept from the UK and with several years of failer and hard work they are near to a main battle weapon but still they have not reached

Even now the US and many countries have not fully scraped the ban which they imposed on us after the N test

so inthis dark age we should not critises our own creation

every countries systems has a weak point only a real time war will prove the worthy ness of a system

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

i think rather than criticizing drdo for its 36 years of developement everybody should see the end product of arjun which has performed brilliantly. the design of arjun is a revolutionary one and this design will not be outdated even by 2050. the US want the continue its abhrams tank programme by 2050. i think instead of an all new designed fmbt the army must consider replacing the heavy manned turret of arjun by a unmanned remote controlled turret(similar to what jordanians have done) with a 140 mm smoothbore gun with a 3 man crewwhich will be a super tank(by today's standards) and will weigh about 50-52 tons even with the heavy era. all other technologies like an aps, clgm, increased mobility etc can be developed by drdo by 2018