Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[WolfPack86]

It’s Time for Indian Army to find its “Tejas” of Main Battle Tanks – Defence News of India
By
Vikas Gupta
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SOURCE: SATYAJEET KUMAR/ FOR MY TAKE / Defence News of India.ORG

Indian Army might be the only branch in Indian Armed Forces which continues to equip itself with imported weapons, from assault rifles to Main battle Tanks, Indian Army has made very little space for indigenous products while Air force and Navy are now starting to focus much more in support of indigenous weapon systems while our Army Generals are yet to move away from their bias import friendly mindsets.

IAF which once upon a time was called Import Air Force for a reason, now has three active fighter jet programs which will make up at least 60% of the fleet in the next 30 years which for the first time, air force will be moving away from the imported fighter jets. ALH, LUH, IMRH, and LCH Helicopters will ensure that the Helicopter fleet too is also largely indigenous in the next decade or so while the Indian Army is yet to become Atma-Nirbhar in Main Battle Tank space while locally developed Arjun tanks continue to wait for puny orders which come once in a while.

Arjun Mk1 fleet comprises of only 114 tanks and now after years of trials and testing, the upgraded Arjun Mk1A with more improvements and technology has been cleared for production again for a puny order size. The army is counting on lighter Arjun MkII to meet its Weight requirements but many in DRDO are not sure if the orders again will be over 114 as Army continues to procure Russian T-90 MBTs in large numbers while the local product gets namesake orders.

Army’s biggest complaint against Arjun MBTs has been its weight and its Price. Arjun MBT is nearly 15 tonnes heavier than the T-90 tanks and costs nearly twice than locally assembled T-90s. Arjun is not overweight tank as Army describes it often, but it is of same weight class of any Heavy tanks in production around the world, it’s just that Army is still not able to make the transition from Medium weight Tanks to Heavyweight Tanks even after demanding a Heavyweight tank from DRDO, 30 years ago.

With Puny order which Arjun tank gets, it only tends to be expensive since DRDO has no incentives to replace most of the imported systems like power packs, electronics and transmission system from the tank due to low order numbers from the client who has been told repeatedly that order of 500 units will see lower production costs but that is yet to happen. The army still operates nearly 1700 older T-72 Main Battle Tanks which after induction of T-90 have been pushed in to secondary role in Armoured thrust and firepower but Army will still need to replace them in long term.

If Modi wants armed forces to take up locally made weapons systems not it needs to stop buying locally assembled imported systems, it is very important that Next Generation Main Battle Tank for the Indian Army is of Indian design and manufactured and not some Russian tank locally assembled in India.

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[Bhadra]

Indian Army might be the only branch in Indian Armed Forces which continues to equip itself with imported weapons, from assault rifles to Main battle Tanks, Indian Army has made very little space for indigenous products

Indian Army is a mission orientated organization and not just a client for DRDO. DPSU and OFB. They must take only those weapons and equipment that fits into their mission profiles. Their roles is nowhere to be Captive clients and to exist only to ensure the survivability and continuity of the business empire of MoD. These are the only business organizations in the world who produce things for themselves, order unto themselves and supply unto themselves (MoD). If they have to exist they must exist like any other business in competitive and challenging consumer-driven environment or shut their shops.

Sell Arjun to someone else if the damn thing is so good.

Army is still not able to make the transition from Medium weight Tanks to Heavyweight Tanks even after demanding a Heavyweight tank from DRDO, 30 years ago.

That is the biggest joke that in product design and development 30 years is nothing. That is the biggest cry that GSQR changes constantly. Well thirty years ago the tank was asked to be given in next three years and not after 30 years. They should have supplied 3000 pieces in three years and trapped the Army.

In Thirty years -

Canal systems including their layout and densities have changed tremendously both sides of the border.
In 30 years so many small towns have come up .. earlier medium towns have become huge, spaces available have changed, lot of new cultivation has come up and lots of greenery has come up. Trees planted along canals banks have become forests.
Operational scenarios have changed. Mobilization parameters have changed. The doctrine has changed from heavy thrusts to IBG demanding speed. swift actions and firepower superiority over protection..

And you wish to thrust down that 84 ton assembled behemoth down Army's throat at double the cost in the name of Modi.. Forget about it.. Export that to Sudan or Lybia for free if they take it..

 

[Shashank Nayak]

And you wish to thrust down that 84 ton assembled behemoth down Army's throat at double the cost in the name of Modi.. Forget about it.. Export that to Sudan or Lybia for free if they take it..

Its a 68 ton beast. not 84 ton.. cut DRDO some slack..

 

[Bhadra]

Its a 68 ton beast. not 84 ton.. cut DRDO some slack..

Nothing above 45 tons... everything within 45- protection, mobility, fire power all-inclusive...
The tank must run rather than crawl..

 

[TheHurtLocker]

Nothing above 45 tons... everything within 45- protection, mobility, fire power all-inclusive...

Someone at Army HQ screwed up big time with the GSQR in that case.
Arjun has a better Power to Weight Ratio so Running won't be a problem, can run over T-90s too if need be.

 

[TheHurtLocker]

Indian Army is a mission orientated organization and not just a client for DRDO. DPSU and OFB. They must take only those weapons and equipment that fits into their mission profiles. Their roles is nowhere to be Captive clients and to exist only to ensure the survivability and continuity of the business empire of MoD. These are the only business organizations in the world who produce things for themselves, order unto themselves and supply unto themselves (MoD). If they have to exist they must exist like any other business in competitive and challenging consumer-driven environment or shut their shops.
Sell Arjun to someone else if the damn thing is so good.

You may have an axe to grind against the DPSU/DRDO, but this attitude will not help anyone.
Organisational inadequacies are not just with DPSU, even the services have them and only working together can help us grow.
OFB etc will be privatised so steps are being taken to address the concerns.

Canal systems including their layout and densities have changed tremendously both sides of the border.
In 30 years so many small towns have come up .. earlier medium towns have become huge, spaces available have changed, lot of new cultivation has come up and lots of greenery has come up. Trees planted along canals banks have become forests.
Operational scenarios have changed. Mobilization parameters have changed. The doctrine has changed from heavy thrusts to IBG demanding speed. swift actions and firepower superiority over protection..

I am sure they can be addressed, we have the full IP for the Tank within the country.

And you wish to thrust down that 84 ton assembled behemoth down Army's throat at double the cost in the name of Modi.. Forget about it.. Export that to

Again whether you/I like it or not, there are no options. Shopping around the world for equipment has to be reduced, this is the mandate for the government.

The services will adapt and so will the industry. PM may be Modi or XYZ, it(Arms import) cannot be sustained.

 

[vasusuman]

Indian Army is a mission orientated organization and not just a client for DRDO. DPSU and OFB. They must take only those weapons and equipment that fits into their mission profiles. Their roles is nowhere to be Captive clients and to exist only to ensure the survivability and continuity of the business empire of MoD. These are the only business organizations in the world who produce things for themselves, order unto themselves and supply unto themselves (MoD). If they have to exist they must exist like any other business in competitive and challenging consumer-driven environment or shut their shops.

Sell Arjun to someone else if the damn thing is so good.



That is the biggest joke that in product design and development 30 years is nothing. That is the biggest cry that GSQR changes constantly. Well thirty years ago the tank was asked to be given in next three years and not after 30 years. They should have supplied 3000 pieces in three years and trapped the Army.

In Thirty years -

Canal systems including their layout and densities have changed tremendously both sides of the border.
In 30 years so many small towns have come up .. earlier medium towns have become huge, spaces available have changed, lot of new cultivation has come up and lots of greenery has come up. Trees planted along canals banks have become forests.
Operational scenarios have changed. Mobilization parameters have changed. The doctrine has changed from heavy thrusts to IBG demanding speed. swift actions and firepower superiority over protection..

And you wish to thrust down that 84 ton assembled behemoth down Army's throat at double the cost in the name of Modi.. Forget about it.. Export that to Sudan or Lybia for free if they take it..

Rather than promoting and encouraging your own industry, you are trying to run them down. by this mindset, nothing will change in another decade

 

[IndianHawk]

Indian Army is a mission orientated organization and not just a client for DRDO. DPSU and OFB

neither is navy nor airforce. Yet both of them moving fast forward to indegenation. Infact navy and airforce need far more technology intensive platform compared to army .yet they are finding indegenious solutions.

Army is happy displaying its broken down t90 at tank sports. Mission accomplished.

 

[WolfPack86]

Indian Defence Updates : 114 Rafale F4 With TVC Capability,L&T Rifle Production,Arjun-MK2 Prototype

 

[Craigs]

Nothing above 45 tons... everything within 45- protection, mobility, fire power all-inclusive...
The tank must run rather than crawl..

Should it fly too, ala the A10 warthog? How about deep fording? Does 300m sound good? Why don't we fit it with some torpedo tubes too?

 

[Pandora]

Am sure the amount of threads we have for arjun mk2 ,IA not even going to order more than half of this....

 

[WolfPack86]

Indian Tank -Arjun: Discovery Channel's

 

[WolfPack86]

https://www.**************.org/forums/attachments/eopf0bkvaaetskf-jpg.13142/

Arjun main battle tank.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Arjun main battle tank.

According to Defence Decode, DRDO is developing a 120mm Mk3 APFSDS for Arjun which will be able to penetrate 800mm of RHA at 2km.

 

[Steven Rogers]

According to Defence Decode, DRDO is developing a 120mm Mk3 APFSDS for Arjun which will be able to penetrate 800mm of RHA at 2km.

Current penetration with mk2 is bw 575-616mm ....

 

[fire starter]

According to Defence Decode, DRDO is developing a 120mm Mk3 APFSDS for Arjun which will be able to penetrate 800mm of RHA at 2km.

can u post that video or link

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

can u post that video or link

It was conveyed to him by a retired DRDO officer, I got to know about it through his Twitter DM.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

According to Defence Decode, DRDO is developing a 120mm Mk3 APFSDS for Arjun which will be able to penetrate 800mm of RHA at 2km.

Would the current carousel on arjun accommodate the new longer apfsds? or would it need to be changed.. like in our current T-72 / T -90 ?

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Would the current carousel on arjun accommodate the new longer apfsds? or would it need to be changed.. like in our current T-72 / T -90 ?

Actually the Mk1 APFSDS developed for Arjun is longer than the M829A3 APFSDS round found on the M1 Abrams.
Mk1 APFSDS measures 944mm in length.
My guess is that DRDO would have just increased the length of the projectile keeping the length of the projectile+cartridge same at 944mm for the 120mm Mk2 APFSDS.
As per BRF, Mk2 120mm APFSDS can penetrate 600mm RHA, roughly comparable to the CHARM-3 APFSDS found on the Challenger-2 tank.
Just to give you an idea of how big the Arjun APFSDS is compared to the APFSDS found on the T-72,T-90 tank fleet

 

[Shashank Nayak]

Actually the Mk1 APFSDS developed for Arjun is longer than the M829A3 APFSDS round found on the M1 Abrams.
Mk1 APFSDS measures 944mm in length.
My guess is that DRDO would have just increased the length of the projectile keeping the length of the projectile+cartridge same at 944mm for the 120mm Mk2 APFSDS.
As per BRF, Mk2 120mm APFSDS can penetrate 600mm RHA, roughly comparable to the CHARM-3 APFSDS found on the Challenger-2 tank.
Just to give you an idea of how big the Arjun APFSDS is compared to the APFSDS found on the T-72,T-90 tank fleet View attachment 51321

Does the 120 mm arjun round shown here exclude cartridge? Because, the 125 mm apfsds displayed here excludes it, and the cartridge is displayed separately..