Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[IndianHawk]

Or your army is living in reality while you are experiencing your tank war in the computer. Unlike the computer game, before brushing aside any pak tank, they have to deal with real problems, such as transportation, spares supplies, maintenance, etc, etc.



The question you have to ask yourselves is: in last 80s and 90s, did India army have a logistic system (with fund, technician force, infrastructure on par to NATO) to support a western style tank: the logistic support required by Russian tank has been always lower and simpler than western tank.

Arjun was build in response to porky acquiring and Abrams. Which didn't materialized. If porky bought Abrams then porky would themselves build roads capable of carrying arjun on their side. on Indian side Arjun can move freely in desert land and even in Punjab.

BTW ground pressure of Arjun is less then t90 so it can literally go anywhere a t90 can.

The problem Arjun faces is that proky are deliberately keeping their infra low quality to stop Arjun overrunning them and that t90 has become almost 80% indegenious and because of huge numbers previously is less costly.

 

[FactsPlease]

A very old article. Nevertheless, I hope someone help me: is the issue covered be addressed / resolved?

https://www.defensenews.com/land/2015/05/07/india-grounds-most-of-original-arjun-tanks/

 

[FactsPlease]

The problem Arjun faces is that proky are deliberately keeping their infra low quality to stop Arjun overrunning them and that t90 has become almost 80% indegenious and because of huge numbers previously is less costly.

I hope you are NOT saying that IA build Arjun is based on the assumption that "Pakistan will surely, definitely build quality infrastructure. So for gods sake who know these Pakistanese does NOT build quality infra just ONLY to prevent an MBT? So, it's Pakistan's responsibility to make Arjun a white elephant. NOT us.
BTW, NO, we never expect, prepare that Arjun is to be used on our own land, for self-defence or else."

NO, I do NOT believe level of IA (India defence planner) is that low. Fan boy, yes, NOT IA.

 

[Hydra3]

Arjun was build in response to porky acquiring and Abrams. Which didn't materialized. If porky bought Abrams then porky would themselves build roads capable of carrying arjun on their side. on Indian side Arjun can move freely in desert land and even in Punjab.

BTW ground pressure of Arjun is less then t90 so it can literally go anywhere a t90 can.

The problem Arjun faces is that proky are deliberately keeping their infra low quality to stop Arjun overrunning them and that t90 has become almost 80% indegenious and because of huge numbers previously is less costly.

Arjun can't run over most of the indian bridges too. Ground pressure matters if it is over sand, over the bridge total weight matters

 

[IndianHawk]

I hope you are NOT saying that IA build Arjun is based on the assumption that "Pakistan will surely, definitely build quality infrastructure. So for gods sake who know these Pakistanese does NOT build quality infra just ONLY to prevent an MBT? So, it's Pakistan's responsibility to make Arjun a white elephant. NOT us.
BTW, NO, we never expect, prepare that Arjun is to be used on our own land, for self-defence or else."

NO, I do NOT believe level of IA (India defence planner) is that low. Fan boy, yes, NOT IA.

What I am saying is porky was part of us alliance so it was almost certain that it will get American thanks just like it got Patten tanks before.

Those heavy would require heavy tanks from India to match that is why Arjun is build like a western tanks!

And if porky got abram they will need infra upto the border for heavy tank which will also be used by Arjun in case of invasion.

But somehow it didn't happen porky went for shitty chinese tin cans and army lost interest in Arjun.

 

[IndianHawk]

Arjun can't run over most of the indian bridges too. Ground pressure matters if it is over sand, over the bridge total weight matters

Most bridges on our side have long been upgraded.
Iirc Arjun can be Carried of most of not all bridges in Punjab. I may be wrong though.

 

[no smoking]

Arjun was build in response to porky acquiring and Abrams. Which didn't materialized.

So, Pakistan changed their plan to choose a tank matching their infrastructure in reality and IA changed their plan to choose a more suitable tank matching the enemy's capability and India's infrastructure level. Only DRDO sticked to the plan in spite of all these changes? Whose fault?

If porky bought Abrams then porky would themselves build roads capable of carrying arjun on their side.

So, IA should make war plan based Pakistan's infrastructure plan which can easily last 20-30 years and full of uncertainty? That is an insult to India military professionals.

on Indian side Arjun can move freely in desert land and even in Punjab.

Unlike you see on TV, when armor forces carry out long distance transportation within own country, they don't let tanks to run on track but on trucks. Otherwise, the time of mechanics to repair those damaged tanks could put the whole unit in the workshop for weeks if not months.

 

[varun9509]

Arjun is the BEST tank in the world! Here is why.

The title is sarcastic.

What do you guys think about the arguments of this video?

 

[JBH22]

Arjun is the BEST tank in the world! Here is why.

The title is sarcastic.

What do you guys think about the arguments of this video?

There must be a reason why the top brass trust T-90. Otherwise there could be no reason to scuttle the project

 

[vampyrbladez]

Arjun Mk 1A is a heavy HK ( Hunter Killer ) tank like the Leopard 2A. T 90S/MS variants of India are the true MBT. T 72 Ajay Mk2 are the general purpose MBT workhorse of the army.

 

[Longewala]

I tell you what? They are right, army is right after nearly a year I have now came to realization that army is right.
No point in indigenous weapon development if WARS are going to be fought for just ten days.
For ten days you can stock foreign made weapons also it will work unlike our OFB and drdo problematic weapons.
WHEN you have a army which says "we have to fight with best weapons available in the market" then the motive for indigenous weapons industry does not hold any value.
I say buy foreign weapons that will be good.
By buying foreign weapons USA and RUSSIA are not mad that they will sanction us in UN security council.
Also keep DRDO for strategic missiles, nuclear submarines because nobody will give it to us.
It is a good deal.
No point in these pathetic and unproven according to @Hydra3 tejas buy F-21 just imagine the leverage you can get in senate of USA, it will bring jobs in other areas for us.
Also buy French latest meteor and install them.
For money problem who cares, if INDIA ever was the LARGEST ECONOMY, I have no doubt that we would have been the world largest importers of weapons in mega billions categories.
Only problem is india economy DAMNIT!! otherwise we would had gotten.
ATHOS
SIG SAUER
M1A2 TANK
F-35
RAFALE
BARACUDDA CLASS
ASRAAM and many more.
Just mouthwatering weapons you see.
WE could had these if not for economy also our soldiers would had happily returned to their homes.:biggrin2:
Also just imagine the influence we would had gotten in CONGRESS of that country.
No pakis would had ever reached that.

Why have an army, sack all the generals and half the soldiers and hire mercenaries as and when we need them.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

Why have an army, sack all the generals and half the soldiers and hire mercenaries as and when we need them.

Yes, I said that long ago no need for them.
Many people compare weapons here as use and throw thing, when I say weapons are soldiers with no heart.

 

[uoftotaku]

Arjun Mk 1A is a heavy HK ( Hunter Killer ) tank like the Leopard 2A. T 90S/MS variants of India are the true MBT. T 72 Ajay Mk2 are the general purpose MBT workhorse of the army.

Actually you can break it down as being the difference between a platform designed for defense vs offense.

Western Cold War tank designs like the Leopard were developed with the very specific Fulda Gap scenario in mind, Western tanks are therefore necessarily, heavily armored, carry very large amount of ammo, lack agility because they are envisioned to fight in as part of a tactical defensive line totally outnumbered and holding ground while engaging hordes. There is also emphasis on an advanced fire control system (for accuracy at long range), and advanced HKP ammunition (such as DU SABOT) to ensure that a even outnumbered they can dominate a battle space. The Israeli's took these lessons to heart and applied them to perfection during Yom Kippur and subsequently integrated everything into the Merkava design. Arjun follows pretty much the Leopard family tree in terms of basic design ethos.

Soviet designs are lightly armored, agile and focus on automation, rapid fire and speed because they were designed with offensive shock tactics in mind. They didnt need to be survivable as much as they needed to be cheap and easy to produce. Crews were disposable (Soviet philosophy), the tank itself could easier be replaced than repaired. The weapon system didnt need to be accurate or effective on first round kill because an individual tank would never engage 1 on 1, but rather 4 on 1 or more, ensuring victory through sheer weight of fire. That thinking reflects very neatly in the T-72/T-90 family

 

[AbRaj]

Do you see how much smaller that thing is?.. The hull is the size of a T-72's.View attachment 43547 Arjun the behemoth's weight will reach 70tons if they try thickening frontal composite armour anymore. View attachment 43542


This is the only way now...

No its not the only way. It has been done in other heavy MBTs in past and can be done with arjun too

 

[south block]

Arjun is the BEST tank in the world! Here is why.

The title is sarcastic.

What do you guys think about the arguments of this video?

He is Serbian --- probably planted by russians or paki's to make sure Indian dumb janta remain confused & make sure to pressure there govt to keep importing from abroad. --- in goro nay Desh ki gawar janta ki nus pakad rakhi hai --- notice me foreign senpai syndrome & keep asking for foreigners validation has made this county up for grab and loot. ---- just look at comment section ---- dalals keep getting hafta from India to Europe & beyond on every such deal's --: specially military Gernails & high ranking officials in MOD --- India need to develop things on its own or we will keep importing for ever.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Lets face it arjun design is a dead end,it lacks development potential for future.
For future we need 55 ton approx tank with smoothbore cannon,3 crew,no gap in frontal turret,might even be unmanned,secure ammo compartment as well as the ability to field a big gun with long rod APFSDS round.
Arjun has allowed us to develop many key armour technologies which will be incorporated in FMBT.It can still deal relatively easily with paki tanks,but its not the mass produced tank of the future .
Arjun has allowed us to develop indigeneous NERA,Kanchan composite armour,automatic target tracking,navigation system,suspension,panaromic sight,weight reduction measures,and set in motion development of new 1500 HP engine.
But we need bharat forge/drdo to build a new tank gun .If necessary we can do it like turks and get tech from south korea.

 

[south block]

Boomers need to be kicked out of these development agencies --- it's time young lads with proper engineering qualifications ---- not loud mouth bull s****s or passing foreign mal as there own and exposed to defence related stuff both western as well as Russian need to be brought in. --- in my opinion in long run -- proper gated cities and communities need to be build where children are raised from ground up in a scientific manner.( no religion , vegi power and other BS. ) --- a type of social engineering I would say. ---- this country need a proper disciplined work force like the Russians.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Lets face it arjun design is a dead end,it lacks development potential for future.
For future we need 55 ton approx tank with smoothbore cannon,3 crew,no gap in frontal turret,might even be unmanned,secure ammo compartment as well as the ability to field a big gun with long rod APFSDS round.
Arjun has allowed us to develop many key armour technologies which will be incorporated in FMBT.It can still deal relatively easily with paki tanks,but its not the mass produced tank of the future .
Arjun has allowed us to develop indigeneous NERA,Kanchan composite armour,automatic target tracking,navigation system,suspension,panaromic sight,weight reduction measures,and set in motion development of new 1500 HP engine.
But we need bharat forge/drdo to build a new tank gun .If necessary we can do it like turks and get tech from south korea.

Front turret gap(which is not a weak point at all as some might say) is most likely to be resolved in Arjun Mk2 version.
55ton, 3 man crew, smoothbore gun, unmanned turret all these things point to one specific tank i.e. T-14 Armata.

 

[Bleh]

...........................

No its not the only way. It has been done in other heavy MBTs in past and can be done with arjun too

Ok.

 

[IndianHawk]

So, Pakistan changed their plan to choose a tank matching their infrastructure in reality and IA changed their plan to choose a more suitable tank matching the enemy's capability and India's infrastructure level. Only DRDO sticked to the plan in spite of all these changes? Whose fault?

Both drdo and IA as drdo couldn't reduce the weight and army kept demanding western capabilities in Russian size.

So, IA should make war plan based Pakistan's infrastructure plan which can easily last 20-30 years and full of uncertainty? That is an insult to India military professionals.

You again can't read properly. Read again army wanted a heavy tank anticipating porky plan of getting Abrams. when that didn't happen army lost interest in arjun and focused on lighter tanks . That's the reality today. Drdo kept convincing the army for arjun by promising weight reduction but army kept delaying by demanding more capabilities even at reduced weight. Meanwhile army is stocked up on t90 and it is probably more indeginised than Arjun today.

What has changed recently is that porky infra is better and anti tank missile are better then before so Arjun is again useful for army as it can take heavy punishment compared to t90.

Unlike you see on TV, when armor forces carry out long distance transportation within own country, they don't let tanks to run on track but on trucks. Otherwise, the time of mechanics to repair those damaged tanks could put the whole unit in the workshop for weeks if not months

What does this have to do with my statement? More comprehension problem?