Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[Singh]

you know as well as i do there were a unique set of circumstances in play, for what happened in the 80's and 90's
The financial woes , technology denial and the nascent stage of infrastructure available.

This is 2010 nearly 20 years after the fact. All those projects the Missile programmes , tanks , planes , helicopters e.t.c
Have all matured in one way or the other , and for that to have happened in the presence of a technology denial regime , means that the Industrial capability and infrastructure has had to improve enough to get us to this point.
We have a base to work from when we develop new systems , the "Abhay" DRDO IFV in development, makes use of systems and lessons learnt from the Arjun tank , that alone makes the whole process inevitably easer and faster.
The "LCH" based on the "ALH" technology is also a good example.

The Financial woes of the late 80's and early 90's are almost non-existent now.

DRDO as an entity has evolved, so have many other DPSU's , we even have private companies in the defence sector , who if not directly working on their own projects are doing sub-contract work for the DPSU's .
L&T , TATA , MAHINDRA and nearly 5000 other large and small defence companies exist.

While i can speak for the bureaucracy , that may still exist . You question given the new DPP , more focused approach and of course the Greater level of cooperation between DPSU's and the Armed forces. Things have changed , by how much is still a guess.

Understanding how DRDO had so many problems the first time around , building to a technological level from almost scratch.

Today we have a DRDO far more capable , far better funded , one that is far less tied down by politics .

The only major failed project by the DRDO as of yet , is the Trishul missile . which is being used as a base for the Joint missile "Matri" .

So do i trust DRDO , yes.

I go by the ground conditions and I don't trust DRDO. I would not like to open the pandoras box but almost all DRDO programs have benefited from foreign assistance and substantial amount of imports.
The only way in the future is joint development and later when we are able to, we can become lead developer.

 

[san]

We have a third option - Joint Development.

Joint development have political considration other than technology as most defence projects are for long duration. Joint development doesnot means sombody will share all its technology with its partner or will work together for all th technology involved. For example lts say we are developinga a new generation heavy duty diesel engine used for MBT with MTU. We may get all design drawing etc but not the technology to manufacture the metal alloy for cylinder or combustor. Partner may not willing to co-develop this technology or we can say share their experience.

 

[gogbot]

I go by the ground conditions and I don't trust DRDO. I would not like to open the pandoras box but almost all DRDO programs have benefited from foreign assistance and substantial amount of imports.
The only way in the future is joint development and later when we are able to, we can become lead developer.

That is precisely the attitude that leads us into reliance on imports and precisely the reason why the Arjun has been given such a hard time.

People say they will trust the realities on the ground and simply write DRDO of on the spot.
Thing about ground conditions is that they change , we have to give not just DRDO but also all our defence sector a chance to prove themselves every-time.

Otherwise where is the opportunity for change,
the more opportunities our defence sector gets the more capabilities they build andthere is difference between building capabilities and improving on them.

DRDO has made a tank once , it will be far easier for them to do it the second time round, the same goes for Missiles , helicopters jet's e.t.c

Don't make it seem as though DRDO sits on its ass when it comes to development.
Sure, there was foreign involvement in development but DRDO has done more than 50% of the work on all cases.

Even the world famous SAAB does not make a jet fighter with 100% Swedish systems.

 

[Texasjohn]

With the Arjun now being able to fire missiles ( probably Lahat) will they now switch back to a smooth bore gun again? anyone know?

 

[pavanvenkatesh]

That is precisely the attitude that leads us into reliance on imports and precisely the reason why the Arjun has been given such a hard time.

People say they will trust the realities on the ground and simply write DRDO of on the spot.
Thing about ground conditions is that they change , we have to give not just DRDO but also all our defence sector a chance to prove themselves every-time.

Otherwise where is the opportunity for change,
the more opportunities our defence sector gets the more capabilities they build andthere is difference between building capabilities and improving on them.

DRDO has made a tank once , it will be far easier for them to do it the second time round, the same goes for Missiles , helicopters jet's e.t.c

Don't make it seem as though DRDO sits on its ass when it comes to development.
Sure, there was foreign involvement in development but DRDO has done more than 50% of the work on all cases.

Even the world famous SAAB does not make a jet fighter with 100% Swedish systems.

The problem here is not the DRDO or the armed forces the fault here lies with our MOD and there defense policies which does nothin for indegenisation there only focus is to have a clean image because of that these delays are happening it is a known fact that DRDO is still in the 'ENTITES' list of sanctions in US books which means that they cannot procure or have access to any sensitive technologies from any countries they wish to procure that is why most of there projects are always delayed because of the same reason i feel that procurement should not be mixed with development because development always takes time and arjun is no exeption

 

[pavanvenkatesh]

With the Arjun now being able to fire missiles ( probably Lahat) will they now switch back to a smooth bore gun again? anyone know?

The lahat missle was actually fired from a rifled cannon so there is no way they are changing it to smoothbore moreover according to test it is said that it is pretty accurate so i don't find any reason for such a big change

 

[sayareakd]

With the Arjun now being able to fire missiles ( probably Lahat) will they now switch back to a smooth bore gun again? anyone know?

check this out

http://img322.imageshack.us/img322/373/arjunlahat5ml.jpg

this is the Arjun tank firing lahat, long time back.

now you can see the two rubber molds being separated immediately after the missile come of from the gun.
this helps in firing the missile from rifle gun, no need to use smooth bore gun. Rubber molding protect it from rifle guns

http://defense-update.com/images/lahat-load.jpg
you can see the rubber molding.


Plus rifle gun has greater rage in accuracy.

For your info, LAHAT has gone in JV with DRDO and is modified and now re named as CLGM.

this was shown in last two defence expos.

 

[pavanvenkatesh]

any updates on the official army report they were supposed to give a detailed report on the comparitive trails right?

 

[Daredevil]

any updates on the official army report they were supposed to give a detailed report on the comparitive trails right?

No, not yet. Everyone is awaiting the results. But it is more than likely that the report will not be released to media (now that T-90 got whacked) and only we will get some leaks here and there. Cross the fingers and hope for the best.

 

[sayareakd]

it the report is in favour of ARjun tank and it is not being reported that is good news, anti Arjun tank (T90S) lobby is strong. If they got any hint that Arjun tank has not performed well then it will be all over the newspapers.

 

[nitesh]

well still nothing:

http://frontierindia.net/defense/indian-armour-day-is-celebrated-each-year-on-01-may

Today, the armoured corps is in the process of modernisation. The existing fleet is being refurbished and is being brought at par with the best. Legacy equipment is being phased out and new systems are being put into place. Concurrently, the Arjun tank is being improved and simultaneously design and development of the next generation of tanks has also commenced

 

[gogbot]

its been a month , what the hell is taking so long for the report.

 

[Agantrope]

its been a month , what the hell is taking so long for the report.

LOL!!!, they need to show that arjun is on par with the T-90 and T-90 performed well=heheh. Reports are out unoffically. Anthonyji will trust the Arjun in the IA so i am quite relaxed

 

[bengalraider]

OK! I cannot substantiate this in anyway and frankly i myself am taking it with a grain of salt , i got some info from a guy claiming that the Israelis are on the bandwagon with the Arjun 2 program and a basic prototype is being considered as an unmanned Merkava 4 turret mated to the Arjun hull, Drdo apparently has designed an unmanned version of the Merkava turret .

 

[Yusuf]

if true, it could turn out to be a great thing for DRDO.

 

[Anshu Attri]

OK! I cannot substantiate this in anyway and frankly i myself am taking it with a grain of salt , i got some info from a guy claiming that the Israelis are on the bandwagon with the Arjun 2 program and a basic prototype is being considered as an unmanned Merkava 4 turret mated to the Arjun hull, Drdo apparently has designed an unmanned version of the Merkava turret .

we are using Israeli technology in every sphere of defence..i was thinking ,why can't we take help from Israel in this project?if this news is true than its BINGOO TIME......

 

[Agantrope]

OK! I cannot substantiate this in anyway and frankly i myself am taking it with a grain of salt , i got some info from a guy claiming that the Israelis are on the bandwagon with the Arjun 2 program and a basic prototype is being considered as an unmanned Merkava 4 turret mated to the Arjun hull, Drdo apparently has designed an unmanned version of the Merkava turret .

This was happned supposed to start at the last year trails were Israelis saw the performance of the arjun and they opened their mouth. They were very much interested in the arjun especially its armour. I dont feel that merkava turret will do that magic in the arjun system? Arethey available for the exports. If yes we can try it on the Karna

 

[sayareakd]

OK! I cannot substantiate this in anyway and frankly i myself am taking it with a grain of salt , i got some info from a guy claiming that the Israelis are on the bandwagon with the Arjun 2 program and a basic prototype is being considered as an unmanned Merkava 4 turret mated to the Arjun hull, Drdo apparently has designed an unmanned version of the Merkava turret .

part which says that Markava 4 turret matted with Arjun hall is new news to me

it will be quite interesting. BTW i love Markava turret design and whole concept of markava tank.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

If it is unmanned merkava turret then it is completely new & cannot be called merkava and if drdo designed it then it cannot be called israeli. i think this is a wet dream of some teen kid

 

[Known_Unknown]

I don't know if exporting the Arjun to Israel is a wise decision. I don't think it would be necessarily a good thing for India to takes sides by arming a particular side in the ME conflict. Until it was restricted to us buying weapons from them, it was ok, and did not directly affect the security situation in the ME. When we start exporting arms to Israel, it will be no different than the arms exports by the US to Pakistan, and it will end up worsening our ties with Iran, as well as other ME nations.