Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[johnj]

No, sorry for being a dick earlier.

Ok, I wasn't aware of that.

Its my mistake.
Abrams weights around 67 tonnes & t90 around 48 tonnes, Arjun around 65 tonnes.
IA using 1500 ~ 2000 t90 compared to 124~ 250 arjun which include new orders.
Medium category means low cost high tech weapon; for ex. f35 compared to f22, and its weight play important role.
If you consider MBTs, weight is not a major issue for most of countries, but for some cases weight does matter & downgraded MBT can't meet all requirement, and weight limited MBT were required, and there is no light MBT. Now how to describe those tanks ? MBTs - like you said, but these causes lots of issues, to avoid I use medium MBT. IA use term overweight for 60 plus tonnes tanks. I don't thing IA consider overweight MBT in near future.

 

[itsme]

IMO, instead of going for an unmanned turret, we should just develop an Arjun MK1A/II type tank resolving the design issues with a 130mm cannon, autoloader, loitering munition launcher, better engine, 3 man crew, under 62 Tons fully loaded MBT. Would be easier than developing a tank with unmanned turret.

 

[johnj]

IMO, instead of going for an unmanned turret, we should just develop an Arjun MK1A/II type tank resolving the design issues with a 130mm cannon, autoloader, loitering munition launcher, better engine, 3 man crew, under 62 Tons fully loaded MBT. Would be easier than developing a tank with unmanned turret.

target 45 tonnes, at the end it become 50 tonne one, meeting 85% IA requirements in future or build light tank first, target 22t for light tank, then 55[60] tonne one.
Now a days MBT is like aircraft carriers, can't survive with out support.

 

[Blood+]

target 45 tonnes, at the end it become 50 tonne one, meeting 85% IA requirements in future or build light tank first, target 22t for light tank, then 55[60] tonne one.

Dude, even the Armata weighs over 55 metric tons, so there is no way we can do it within 50, just forget about it.

Now a days MBT is like aircraft carriers, can't survive with out support.

Nah, that's been the case since the day tanks first appeared on the battlefield.

 

[johnj]

Dude, even the Armata weighs over 55 metric tons, so there is no way we can do it within 50, just forget about it.

Yes, if IA considering unmanned turret, fire power, & heavy armour. Its upto IA to choose what they want under Indian conditions. yes, it is difficult, that why I wrote second option, fight light tank, after that 55 tonne MBT, when our infra, transport is much better.

Nah, that's been the case since the day tanks first appeared on the battlefield.

No, when tanks first appeared, its hard to destroy,its like an elephant on rampage.
During second ww2 also tank were great, a lots of tank to tank battle,but now long range pgms, uav, loitering weapons etc plus helios reduced tank survivability.

 

[Super falcon]

What is next from here for indian army because with ongoing war and T 90 capabilities against ukranians soldiers has big flaws indian govt already issues a new tender RFI for next generation tanks which tanks has better chance

T 14 Armata
Leopard 2
KFI Black panther
K 2 black panther
Abram M1A2 SPEV4
Abram X tank


There was UpTo last year December T 14 was a front runner because India has better experience and infastrycture of million dollars to build Russian tanks
But things are changed drastically




India should consider US general dynamics next gen ABRAM X

 

[STORE]

India should consider US general dynamics next gen ABRAM X

Nope. U.S will later use it as a leverage to blackmail us like how they r threatening Saudi now.

 

[Fire and groove]

This should help.

 

[Eagle Eye]

There is no GSQR coming frm army for FMBT to drdo. Is it time for govt to bring tanks into "No import list"?

 

[SUPERPOWER]

What is next from here for indian army because with ongoing war and T 90 capabilities against ukranians soldiers has big flaws indian govt already issues a new tender RFI for next generation tanks which tanks has better chance

T 14 Armata
Leopard 2
KFI Black panther
K 2 black panther
Abram M1A2 SPEV4
Abram X tank


There was UpTo last year December T 14 was a front runner because India has better experience and infastrycture of million dollars to build Russian tanks
But things are changed drastically




India should consider US general dynamics next gen ABRAM X

Are you from Chandigarh Lobby??

 

[STORE]

Are you from Chandigarh Lobby??

He is Pakistani

 

[binayak95]

Its my mistake.
Abrams weights around 67 tonnes & t90 around 48 tonnes, Arjun around 65 tonnes.
IA using 1500 ~ 2000 t90 compared to 124~ 250 arjun which include new orders.
Medium category means low cost high tech weapon; for ex. f35 compared to f22, and its weight play important role.
If you consider MBTs, weight is not a major issue for most of countries, but for some cases weight does matter & downgraded MBT can't meet all requirement, and weight limited MBT were required, and there is no light MBT. Now how to describe those tanks ? MBTs - like you said, but these causes lots of issues, to avoid I use medium MBT. IA use term overweight for 60 plus tonnes tanks. I don't thing IA consider overweight MBT in near future.

Abrams SEPV3 has shot through 70 tonnes now. It is getting ridiculously heavy - thus the AbramsX is such a radically different approach to survivability

 

[Love Charger]

Are you from Chandigarh Lobby??

He is from sindhi lobby of hyderabad Pakistan

 

[binayak95]

Yes, if IA considering unmanned turret, fire power, & heavy armour. Its upto IA to choose what they want under Indian conditions. yes, it is difficult, that why I wrote second option, fight light tank, after that 55 tonne MBT, when our infra, transport is much better.

No, when tanks first appeared, its hard to destroy,its like an elephant on rampage.
During second ww2 also tank were great, a lots of tank to tank battle,but now long range pgms, uav, loitering weapons etc plus helios reduced tank survivability.

When tanks first appeared, they were lumbering behemoths that could not go more than 2 km without breaking down.

In WWII, the first tanks were small littol PzIIs with 20mm guns and MGs. Heck, the greatest tank battle of WWII, Kursk saw German Panzers go up against static soviet defenses. Fortifications, landmines, Anti Tank ditches and Guns, small hunter killer squads with shaped charge weapons and anti tank rifles. Tanks were used in the reseve to defeat German breakthroughs. (Prokhorovka being infamous)

Warfare has not really changed.

 

[johnj]

Abrams SEPV3 has shot through 70 tonnes now. It is getting ridiculously heavy - thus the AbramsX is such a radically different approach to survivability

Yes, true and arjun mk1a weights around 67 tonnes. For US, NATO 70 tonnes not a big issue. Chinese also consider 65~70 tonne tank in future in large numbers.
AbramsX designed to form a bridge or fill the gap until new future mbt arrive, and X weight less compared to sepv3.
IA future MBT requirement ?? may be around 50~55 tonnes.

 

[binayak95]

Yes, true and arjun mk1a weights around 67 tonnes. For US, NATO 70 tonnes not a big issue. Chinese also consider 65~70 tonne tank in future in large numbers.
AbramsX designed to form a bridge or fill the gap until new future mbt arrive, and X weight less compared to sepv3.
IA future MBT requirement ?? may be around 50~55 tonnes.

70 tonnes is not an issue?
Kuch bhi pelte ho.

SEPV3 is the STOP GAP before AbramsX arrives in its final avatar. Its barely a concept vehicle now, showing what is feasible.

IA future MBT requirement will be whatever the govt rams down IA's throat - but its probably a toss up between Leclerc's future variant and K2 - though Abrams X is a wild card

 

[johnj]

When tanks first appeared, they were lumbering behemoths that could not go more than 2 km without breaking down.

In WWII, the first tanks were small littol PzIIs with 20mm guns and MGs. Heck, the greatest tank battle of WWII, Kursk saw German Panzers go up against static soviet defenses. Fortifications, landmines, Anti Tank ditches and Guns, small hunter killer squads with shaped charge weapons and anti tank rifles. Tanks were used in the reseve to defeat German breakthroughs. (Prokhorovka being infamous)

Warfare has not really changed.

Yes, true tank warfare not changed, that why countries spending billions $$ on tanks, but anti tank warfare changed, from anti tank rifles to 5th gen atgm to loitering autonomous anti tank missiles.
The point is - anti tank warfare changed from close/direct attack from long/non direct attack or stand off attack. You missed anti tank mines. If you consider AF, from medium bomber to attack drone, attack helio, cas aircraft, heavy bomber with pgm etc.

 

[binayak95]

Yes, true tank warfare not changed, that why countries spending billions $$ on tanks, but anti tank warfare changed, from anti tank rifles to 5th gen atgm to loitering autonomous anti tank missiles.
The point is - anti tank warfare changed from close/direct attack from long/non direct attack or stand off attack. You missed anti tank mines. If you consider AF, from medium bomber to attack drone, attack helio, cas aircraft, heavy bomber with pgm etc.

Missing the forest for the trees mate

 

[johnj]

70 tonnes is not an issue?
Kuch bhi pelte ho.

SEPV3 is the STOP GAP before AbramsX arrives in its final avatar. Its barely a concept vehicle now, showing what is feasible.

IA future MBT requirement will be whatever the govt rams down IA's throat - but its probably a toss up between Leclerc's future variant and K2 - though Abrams X is a wild card

No, it is not a issue, considering engineering required in battlefield. US can use ships, super heavy & heavy lift aircraft to transport empty M1s.
AbramsX is concept vehicle now, showing what is feasible based on Abrams and weights 67 tonnes, and you having issue with 70 tonnes but not with 67 tonne concept ?
IA future MBT requirement will be whatever the govt rams down IA's throat - true, I bet french more.

 

[johnj]

Missing the forest for the trees mate

Then add mountains, river, valleys & oceans also, oops missed space.