Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

pkroyal

New Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2013
Messages
545
Likes
721
I highly disagree about % of Indian made parts in Arjun MBT claimed by TOI knee jerking news reporting ..

Gun : Indian
Transmission : Indian
Armour : Indian
FCS : Indian
tracks, Wheel, Chassis : Indian
Electronics : Indian
Engine : German

==============

How, exactly someone claimed it to be a 55% made in India components, I should not be ashamed to claim that Arjun an Indian made and design tank outgun and Outrun Russian design and Indian made T-90 in trails by a good margin ..

Its design feature is also very good compare to T tanks, Its design for Indian terrain, I can answer questions you have, I learned few things by observing this tank development ..
As per version of officers involved in user trials, following problems were noticed:-

Gun stabilization
Silhouette ( taller & wider)
Overheating of gun ( metallurgy related issues)
Power to wt ratio.

Kindly do mention why it has not been fully inducted in the army.
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
There are no issue with Gun stabilization or else it would not be inducted into force, The stabilization issue was back in 2005 Iirc ..

It has same silhouette as any other T tank in Army, though its wider..

I disagree, The Barrel made for Arjun are not the same of those T-72M1, 120mm rifled gun has more life than what is of T-72 ..

Better than any other tank in Army ..

=================

Scam ..

As per version of officers involved in user trials, following problems were noticed:-

Gun stabilization
Silhouette ( taller & wider)
Overheating of gun ( metallurgy related issues)
Power to wt ratio.

Kindly do mention why it has not been fully inducted in the army.
 

Hari Sud

New Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Messages
3,945
Likes
8,863
Country flag
Can somebody in summary identify the anti Arjun Tank lobby in the Army and civilian Defence Ministry and their motivation behind the opposition.

The Director General of Mechanized Forces have been changed four times in last eight years, this opposition does not seem to undergo a change.

Is army gone too comfortable and cushy that change scares them.

If GSQR are behind it all and is being used to push Arjun Tank in the background, it is public right to know.

Ours is the only Army who uses GSQR (General Staff Qualitative Requirements) To push for imports. They set the GSQR at such a level that equipment like that does not exits or has been ever built.

All military hardware is evolutionary In nature. No tank developed by any nation on the first day is all perfect. It evolves. Arjun Tank is also evolving.

The amount of opposition this tank encountered is unworthy of our honest and straight talking army or highly corrupt civilian Defence Ministry.
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
There are moles in almost all the branches of Armed forces and MOD, To influence different lobbies ..

Its not hard to pick them out from the crowed, Its hard to take action against them as they are protected by their masters ..

Unfortunately many followers of them are innocent ( dumb and blind ), Just like sheeps in a herd ..

===========
@Decklander Sir, If visits this forum perhaps can elaborate ..
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Archer

New Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
414
Likes
669
Country flag
With 55% videshi parts even after close to 40 years( first sanctioned in 1974) in the making the Arjun MBT

It still has very few qualities of the great warrior.

its a monstrosity, and in local parlance a Jugaad that is the reason it has not been fully inducted in the Armoured Regiments.

Let us face it from Radars to AEWCS most of our so called defence indigenous heavy duty stuff has imported parts ranging from 5% to 67%(respectively)
When you read such reports, please do the following - note the Indian media has probably the worst journalists in the world with no idea of basic research, and second - understand that our own bias is coming in play, both of an earlier generation which rarely saw any worthwhile Indian product & second, the tendency (of many Indians) to automatically assume that anything from the Govt civilians is from sarkari " babus" and hence worthless.

When you keep these issues in mind, and choose to apply your own research, you will realize how much BS is targeted at DRDO & their products & with what diligence these people, despite these asinine personal attacks on their competence, continue with their work.

They are every bit as patriotic as any of us for instance. I have seen a 50+ year old Bengali gentleman working in a DRDO lab get emotional & keep using the term "mother India" in every other statement, when asked why he works, and he in the process of his work had narrow shaves when the chemicals he was working on exploded. My generation would rarely if ever show such emotion & many would not put nation before professional advancement.

So this is the attitude that makes sure a R Aggarwal, Agni program director, does not even attend his own fathers funeral, because an Agni test is scheduled. This is the attitude that has an APJ Kalam tell his team that all failures are his, when the first Agni motor exploded IIRC, and then give the credit to his team when it was successful.

A DRDO working under sanctions can task a hitherto inexperience lab under CSIR to develop a state of the art FBW system, and have it deliver. So much so that they can develop brand new techniques to expand AoA envelopes even when they have to face strict constraints (read no leeway) in terms of weight gain of the platfrom and no platform redesign. And they do so, moving iteratively to 22 deg and IAF mandated 24 deg.

So if there is a certain design choice, it was made by committed, intelligent people working within constraints. Not some jugaad, "desi mentality" as is commonly thought.

So, take a look at that import content bit you threw out quoted verbatim from Times of India, excerpted from a std committee of defence report, which an idiot journalist called Rajat Pandit used to DRDO bashing, did not even bother thinking about.

DRDO said import % in radar programs ranges from 5% to 67% with the 67% for the AEW&C program. The AEW&C is a complete project with a radar mounted on an Embraer aircraft which India does not produce, since it never funded anything similar. Ergo the 67% as the aircraft cost dominates the overall platform!

The radar is from LRDE with crucial components from Indian firms, the ESM/Eletcronics are from Indian firms supported by DRDO, and all pale before the overall cost of the Embraer aircraft itself.

So is this a negligible achievement?? Which other country has managed to, in the span of a decade, move from a cancelled conventional radar program to a modern AESA radar and have it integrated with a laundry list of additional features on a commercial jet, while developing it from scratch?

Similarly, the Arjun's import percentage - again, this is by value. Indian DPP similarly, uses cost as a metric, mentions 50% by value. Here the argument gets lopsided again. Indian components are cheaper than those from abroad. So even if DRDO produces x LRU> y imported LRU, cost wise will favour the latter. Further, by deliberately ordering penny piecemeal orders (124 Arjun 1, 118-248 est MK2), the basic breakeven of producing imported items indigenousLy with license deals cannot be done.

The Army's sheer hypocrisy in this one case (and I mention this case because the other formations of the IA, eg arty/signals/eme/infantry have done a yeoman job in doing the reverse and placing logically decent numbers of orders for items like Pinaka, Samyukta, etc) vs the orders for the T-90 whose critical deficiencies - malfunctioning FCS with improper TI, engine overheating issues, poor ergonomics, bad ammunition placement.. show how lopsided the treatment was.

A 100% imported T-90 is preferable to a 55% by value imported Arjun! Which will never be given the orders necessary to make it even 80% local - MTU for instance offered to transfer engine tech for a production run of only 500 odd engines!

Meanwhile Arjun is made to run through all sorts of tests, with requirements ever increasing.

The Army asks for more & more from the Arjun - the T-90 is exempt. The Arjun FCS is tested for donkeys years till it meets 90% Pk as even 70% (far superior to the T-72) is not acceptable. Meanwhile, the T-90 is imported en masse with even the TI not working under heat, its ballistic computer unable to accept Indian rounds, TOT for gun barrel and armor is denied (which is to be now replaced with Arjun derived armor including ERA).

Arjun ammo is canisterised in MK1 to delay sympathetic detonation of rounds. Army is not satisfied and wants even better protection in MK2 which is now demoed, with full blow off panels. Each round is stored in a heavy steel module, but that is not enough. Meanwhile T-90 comes with live rounds stored all across the fighting compartment & drivers compartment and that is ok.

Arjun goes through heavy flak for engines failing in extended trials. DRDO/MTU design new radiators and demo them. Army remains silent, meanwhile T-90 in first trials (acceptance) in India failed its engine trials (one expired much before rated life). No complaints, lets order more.

Bottomline, please realize one thing - the people on the "other side" working on these products are not idiots & they are as patriotic as you are. They are doing the best they can under circumstances which in many other nations would be deemed as farcical - eg the penny piecemeal order system the IA excels in. The way forward is for the IA to work with them, not to sit outside, carp & constantly import subpar equipment which rarely if ever performs to specs, but then in classic camel & the Arab fashion supplants a WIP local item which falls out of fashion.

If you wish 100% indigenization, spend some time with industry folks & see the costs involved. You want every electronics gizmo to be made in India? Please look up the costs for a modern day thermal imager related FPA fab. And the opex costs, plus the costs required to constantly upgrade it. Nations like the US, France, Israel are willing to invest in such capabilities & will persist.

In India, you have wine dreams and a farthing purse, and yet expect the world of local industry and manufacture. Its a bit farcical to be honest & its high time gentlemen woke up & smelt the reality. And one last thing, the DRDO et al treat service requirements as sancrosanct & will bend over backwards to accomodate the services. They dont have other customers & hence are extremely dependent on you. On the other hand, the pvt sector which guys often tout as a panacea, will not always put up with such idiosyncratic rubbish.

They need to be brought into manufacturing to improve production over the sclerotic hit and miss stuff by OFB eg in small arms. But in terms of R&D and fulfilling all such complex programs, lets just say, the profit motive dictates a lot. Even in the much touted Avro replacement program floated several years back with great hopes by the IAF, there has been zilch progress as no pvt firm will touch something like this with a pair of tongs unless much bigger orders are guaranteed.

So, kindly look at the issue dispassionately & you will understand what these oft quoted "indigenization is x%" reports are. The latest DPP with pvt involvement, BTW envisages 50%, and mind you much of that 50% will be licensed and built locally judging by pvt offerings in the arty fracas for the IA.

When you have a painfully built up worldclass capability, you nurture it, and move it forward (IAI is Govt owned btw), you don't throw it away saying "ah, that "could be better". Thats what the russians did post FSU breakup and they took 2 decades to recover.
 
Last edited:

ersakthivel

Brilliance
New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,764
Country flag
When you read such reports, please do the following - note the Indian media has probably the worst journalists in the world with no idea of basic research, and second - understand that our own bias is coming in play, both of an earlier generation which rarely saw any worthwhile Indian product & second, the tendency (of many Indians) to automatically assume that anything from the Govt civilians is from sarkari " babus" and hence worthless.

When you keep these issues in mind, and choose to apply your own research, you will realize how much BS is targeted at DRDO & their products & with what diligence these people, despite these asinine personal attacks on their competence, continue with their work.

They are every bit as patriotic as any of us for instance. I have seen a 50+ year old Bengali gentleman working in a DRDO lab get emotional & keep using the term "mother India" in every other statement, when asked why he works, and he in the process of his work had narrow shaves when the chemicals he was working on exploded. My generation would rarely if ever show such emotion & many would not put nation before professional advancement.

So this is the attitude that makes sure a R Aggarwal, Agni program director, does not even attend his own fathers funeral, because an Agni test is scheduled. This is the attitude that has an APJ Kalam tell his team that all failures are his, when the first Agni motor exploded IIRC, and then give the credit to his team when it was successful.

A DRDO working under sanctions can task a hitherto inexperience lab under CSIR to develop a state of the art FBW system, and have it deliver. So much so that they can develop brand new techniques to expand AoA envelopes even when they have to face strict constraints (read no leeway) in terms of weight gain of the platfrom and no platform redesign. And they do so, moving iteratively to 22 deg and IAF mandated 24 deg.

So if there is a certain design choice, it was made by committed, intelligent people working within constraints. Not some jugaad, "desi mentality" as is commonly thought.

So, take a look at that import content bit you threw out quoted verbatim from Times of India, excerpted from a std committee of defence report, which an idiot journalist called Rajat Pandit used to DRDO bashing, did not even bother thinking about.

DRDO said import % in radar programs ranges from 5% to 67% with the 67% for the AEW&C program. The AEW&C is a complete project with a radar mounted on an Embraer aircraft which India does not produce, since it never funded anything similar. Ergo the 67% as the aircraft cost dominates the overall platform!

The radar is from LRDE with crucial components from Indian firms, the ESM/Eletcronics are from Indian firms supported by DRDO, and all pale before the overall cost of the Embraer aircraft itself.

So is this a negligible achievement?? Which other country has managed to, in the span of a decade, move from a cancelled conventional radar program to a modern AESA radar and have it integrated with a laundry list of additional features on a commercial jet, while developing it from scratch?

Similarly, the Arjun's import percentage - again, this is by value. Indian DPP similarly, uses cost as a metric, mentions 50% by value. Here the argument gets lopsided again. Indian components are cheaper than those from abroad. So even if DRDO produces x LRU> y imported LRU, cost wise will favour the latter. Further, by deliberately ordering penny piecemeal orders (124 Arjun 1, 118-248 est MK2), the basic breakeven of producing imported items indigenousLy with license deals cannot be done.

The Army's sheer hypocrisy in this one case (and I mention this case because the other formations of the IA, eg arty/signals/eme/infantry have done a yeoman job in doing the reverse and placing logically decent numbers of orders for items like Pinaka, Samyukta, etc) vs the orders for the T-90 whose critical deficiencies - malfunctioning FCS with improper TI, engine overheating issues, poor ergonomics, bad ammunition placement.. show how lopsided the treatment was.

A 100% imported T-90 is preferable to a 55% by value imported Arjun! Which will never be given the orders necessary to make it even 80% local - MTU for instance offered to transfer engine tech for a production run of only 500 odd engines!

Meanwhile Arjun is made to run through all sorts of tests, with requirements ever increasing.

The Army asks for more & more from the Arjun - the T-90 is exempt. The Arjun FCS is tested for donkeys years till it meets 90% Pk as even 70% (far superior to the T-72) is not acceptable. Meanwhile, the T-90 is imported en masse with even the TI not working under heat, its ballistic computer unable to accept Indian rounds, TOT for gun barrel and armor is denied (which is to be now replaced with Arjun derived armor including ERA).

Arjun ammo is canisterised in MK1 to delay sympathetic detonation of rounds. Army is not satisfied and wants even better protection in MK2 which is now demoed, with full blow off panels. Each round is stored in a heavy steel module, but that is not enough. Meanwhile T-90 comes with live rounds stored all across the fighting compartment & drivers compartment and that is ok.

Arjun goes through heavy flak for engines failing in extended trials. DRDO/MTU design new radiators and demo them. Army remains silent, meanwhile T-90 in first trials (acceptance) in India failed its engine trials (one expired much before rated life). No complaints, lets order more.

Bottomline, please realize one thing - the people on the "other side" working on these products are not idiots & they are as patriotic as you are. They are doing the best they can under circumstances which in many other nations would be deemed as farcical - eg the penny piecemeal order system the IA excels in. The way forward is for the IA to work with them, not to sit outside, carp & constantly import subpar equipment which rarely if ever performs to specs, but then in classic camel & the Arab fashion supplants a WIP local item which falls out of fashion.

If you wish 100% indigenization, spend some time with industry folks & see the costs involved. You want every electronics gizmo to be made in India? Please look up the costs for a modern day thermal imager related FPA fab. And the opex costs, plus the costs required to constantly upgrade it. Nations like the US, France, Israel are willing to invest in such capabilities & will persist.

In India, you have wine dreams and a farthing purse, and yet expect the world of local industry and manufacture. Its a bit farcical to be honest & its high time gentlemen woke up & smelt the reality. And one last thing, the DRDO et al treat service requirements as sancrosanct & will bend over backwards to accomodate the services. They dont have other customers & hence are extremely dependent on you. On the other hand, the pvt sector which guys often tout as a panacea, will not always put up with such idiosyncratic rubbish.

They need to be brought into manufacturing to improve production over the sclerotic hit and miss stuff by OFB eg in small arms. But in terms of R&D and fulfilling all such complex programs, lets just say, the profit motive dictates a lot. Even in the much touted Avro replacement program floated several years back with great hopes by the IAF, there has been zilch progress as no pvt firm will touch something like this with a pair of tongs unless much bigger orders are guaranteed.

So, kindly look at the issue dispassionately & you will understand what these oft quoted "indigenization is x%" reports are. The latest DPP with pvt involvement, BTW envisages 50%, and mind you much of that 50% will be licensed and built locally judging by pvt offerings in the arty fracas for the IA.

When you have a painfully built up worldclass capability, you nurture it, and move it forward (IAI is Govt owned btw), you don't throw it away saying "ah, that "could be better". Thats what the russians did post FSU breakup and they took 2 decades to recover.
Please post more on this forum:thumb:,

You post very little here,:hail:which is not fair.
 

rajsking

New Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2013
Messages
190
Likes
230
Country flag
When you read such reports, please do the following - note the Indian media has probably the worst journalists in the world with no idea of basic research, and second - understand that our own bias is coming in play, both of an earlier generation which rarely saw any worthwhile Indian product & second, the tendency (of many Indians) to automatically assume that anything from the Govt civilians is from sarkari " babus" and hence worthless.

When you have a painfully built up worldclass capability, you nurture it, and move it forward (IAI is Govt owned btw), you don't throw it away saying "ah, that "could be better". Thats what the russians did post FSU breakup and they took 2 decades to recover.
Going Off Topic. But I often wondered how, inspite of only being very small, Isreal can do wonders vis-a-vis India. I see four important reasons : 1) Humane attitude towards work i.e. accepting excuses et all. You may ask anyone to do things properly and the reply will be - even if what I am not doing is not perfect/according to book - but it will work. Chatla hai attitude. 2) Educational system - where degree is given more importance than knowledge. You will agree that most of the toppers from all Engg colleges join private firm, but how many actually have ability to actually engineer (not jugaad) even a small fastener. Even those engaged by consultancy firms will get their work validated from foreign experts - as they themselves donot feel confident in their own calculations/methodology.And no Indian firm, in need of consultancy, will trust even an ounce on the capability of any research done by Indians. 3) Manufacturing Sector - There is no incentive to produce quality goods, Hence are still using archaic methods of production. Even Tata's, inspite of employing 1000s of engineers, all can manage is to keep their age old engine blocks (which are as old as the company) updated to meet the government regulations (BSII, BSIII etc.) Point is even big companies which have resources are unable to develop its own product and themselves prefer to buy tot/license of already developed product like Fiat engine. And un-organised manufacturing sector neither have capability to produce something on their own nor have ability to undertake license production. 4) Driving market to buy quality driven product. Ever wondered why apple iphone or an imported car should cost more in India. Or take the case of laptops - low level laptops cost almost the same whether in USA or in India. But as you try to opt for higher spec laptops you will see a price differential of even 50-60% between those available in India and that in USA. Net result, due to artificial price barrier created by the MNCs / Importers people will tend to buy cheaper low-end models. If govt ensures proper pricing, there will be more people who will opt for better products (now available at much cheaper price). And this will fuel cycle of constantly upgrading products, make it local, design it local etc.


Improvement will take years but I see two focus areas - 1) Materials and Metallurgy 2) Heavy Machines. And to merge them Engine technology.
HMT may be established with the view to overcome the second limitation, but, it ended up as an in-efficient production facility of outdated and overpriced machinery whose know-how the govt must have bought at the time of independence.

In defense supply industry, I see a great support which can transform India.
TO begin with Govt itself OR by way of providing incentive to Indian firm buy MTU or some other big engine manufacturer. To make the deal palpable - do not shift manufacturing base. Just shift their R&D to India. Let these Indian subsidiaries induct only Indians and let govt reimburse the institutes with the cost incurred in inducting local engineers. Similar thing can be done with Some reputed firms in material, metallurgy firm to start afresh India's manufacturing industry. Similar incentive can be given to heavy engineering companies like Samsung etc to shift their Machine Design centre to India.
Mushrooming of engineering colleges should stop and instead focus should now be ensuring that proper research is under taken at these institutes and they produce more masters and PhDs. DRDO should give small projects to these institutes to keep them focused. e.g. even if they donnot have any current requirement of a higher grade steel, they can ask the institutes to look for steel with better strength. This they can then use in their future project. But the need is to establish a culture where real research happens in institutes.
Next is vendor development. For many items, which they are producing inhouse, they should share its complete know-how to the bidder who is willing to provide them these items at lowest cost. A commitment of future orders is implied. This way local manufacturing unit will experience handling different materials and they may begin to find innovative use of such new materials. They may even make use of emerging R&D base to absorb related technologies to offer better products.
Vendor Development is most critical step. Govt should realize that there is no market of advanced products in India - only defense industry requires them. So govt has to ensure a buyer of such products. Second is, even if govt is ready to buy locally, local industry cannot gain such capability overmight. Only big companies, then can come forward, and that too by way of license production/assembly of CKDs (like Tata license producing artillery gun). But this is not the intent. ASK ONLY FOR THINGS THAT ONE CAN GIVE. Hence they , themselves should share production techniques and then also give orders to local industry. Incrementally capabilities will build up and with time we can have a flourishing local industry on which Defense sector can depend upon for its needs.

I have tried to give my views on 3 of the 4 issues mentioned before. Most importantly, to fix our Chalta hai attitude, we Indians need to learn some discipline, And I see no harm in making 1-2 year military training compulsary, if it helps us to be a better person. I just hope that such program do not met the same fate as that met by NCC program.

Lets hope the new government sense the urgency to develop in-house research and manufacturing capabilities, Employment and subsidiary program if targeted in this direction can achieve much more good for the nation than the useless free food program OR giving low-level govt jobs to lakhs of people.
 
Last edited:

ersakthivel

Brilliance
New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,764
Country flag
Going Off Topic. But I often wondered how, inspite of only being very small, Isreal can do wonders vis-a-vis India. I see four important reasons : 1) Humane attitude towards work i.e. accepting excuses et all. You may ask anyone to do things properly and the reply will be - even if what I am not doing is not perfect/according to book - but it will work. Chatla hai attitude. 2) Educational system - where degree is given more importance than knowledge. You will agree that most of the toppers from all Engg colleges join private firm, but how many actually have ability to actually engineer (not jugaad) even a small fastener. Even those engaged by consultancy firms will get their work validated from foreign experts - as they themselves donot feel confident in their own calculations/methodology.And no Indian firm, in need of consultancy, will trust even an ounce on the capability of any research done by Indians. 3) Manufacturing Sector - There is no incentive to produce quality goods, Hence are still using archaic methods of production. Even Tata's, inspite of employing 1000s of engineers, all can manage is to keep their age old engine blocks (which are as old as the company) updated to meet the government regulations (BSII, BSIII etc.) Point is even big companies which have resources are unable to develop its own product and themselves prefer to buy tot/license of already developed product like Fiat engine. And un-organised manufacturing sector neither have capability to produce something on their own nor have ability to undertake license production. 4) Driving market to buy quality driven product. Ever wondered why apple iphone or an imported car should cost more in India. Or take the case of laptops - low level laptops cost almost the same whether in USA or in India. But as you try to opt for higher spec laptops you will see a price differential of even 50-60% between those available in India and that in USA. Net result, due to artificial price barrier created by the MNCs / Importers people will tend to buy cheaper low-end models. If govt ensures proper pricing, there will be more people who will opt for better products (now available at much cheaper price). And this will fuel cycle of constantly upgrading products, make it local, design it local etc.


Improvement will take years but I see two focus areas - 1) Materials and Metallurgy 2) Heavy Machines. And to merge them Engine technology.
HMT may be established with the view to overcome the second limitation, but, it ended up as an in-efficient production facility of outdated and overpriced machinery whose know-how the govt must have bought at the time of independence.

In defense supply industry, I see a great support which can transform India.
TO begin with Govt itself OR by way of providing incentive to Indian firm buy MTU or some other big engine manufacturer. To make the deal palpable - do not shift manufacturing base. Just shift their R&D to India. Let these Indian subsidiaries induct only Indians and let govt reimburse the institutes with the cost incurred in inducting local engineers. Similar thing can be done with Some reputed firms in material, metallurgy firm to start afresh India's manufacturing industry. Similar incentive can be given to heavy engineering companies like Samsung etc to shift their Machine Design centre to India.
Mushrooming of engineering colleges should stop and instead focus should now be ensuring that proper research is under taken at these institutes and they produce more masters and PhDs. DRDO should give small projects to these institutes to keep them focused. e.g. even if they donnot have any current requirement of a higher grade steel, they can ask the institutes to look for steel with better strength. This they can then use in their future project. But the need is to establish a culture where real research happens in institutes.
Next is vendor development. For many items, which they are producing inhouse, they should share its complete know-how to the bidder who is willing to provide them these items at lowest cost. A commitment of future orders is implied. This way local manufacturing unit will experience handling different materials and they may begin to find innovative use of such new materials. They may even make use of emerging R&D base to absorb related technologies to offer better products.
Vendor Development is most critical step. Govt should realize that there is no market of advanced products in India - only defense industry requires them. So govt has to ensure a buyer of such products. Second is, even if govt is ready to buy locally, local industry cannot gain such capability overmight. Only big companies, then can come forward, and that too by way of license production/assembly of CKDs (like Tata license producing artillery gun). But this is not the intent. ASK ONLY FOR THINGS THAT ONE CAN GIVE. Hence they , themselves should share production techniques and then also give orders to local industry. Incrementally capabilities will build up and with time we can have a flourishing local industry on which Defense sector can depend upon for its needs.

I have tried to give my views on 3 of the 4 issues mentioned before. Most importantly, to fix our Chalta hai attitude, we Indians need to learn some discipline, And I see no harm in making 1-2 year military training compulsary, if it helps us to be a better person. I just hope that such program do not met the same fate as that met by NCC program.

Lets hope the new government sense the urgency to develop in-house research and manufacturing capabilities, Employment and subsidiary program if targeted in this direction can achieve much more good for the nation than the useless free food program OR giving low-level govt jobs to lakhs of people.
If we all swiss banks are closed all the above things will happem here also,

see , israel has not develope Cryogenic tech, communication sat tech, mars orbiter tech, original tech for fast breeder reactors,

But we did. the reason is these techs are denied for us and so swiss bank angle does not come into play, and free of continuous revision of specs that stalls programs like Arjun , nag and Tejas.

otherwise I never accept after developing so muc tech that are so top notch we can't produce a simple MBT and combat fighter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mdp

shuvo@y2k10

New Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
2,653
Likes
6,710
Country flag
this is an old video of a tv news discussion on arjun mbt where the panel includes three retired top armoured corps officers.it talks several issues regarding the arjun tank project including its birth,change of gsqr,it's suitability to different terrains and it's comparitive trials with t-90.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Sridhar

House keeper
New Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
3,474
Likes
1,062
Country flag
There was a similar program by Sun tv during the last Saraswathi/Ayutha Pooja. If any cone have the links or video Please post it.
 

Twinblade

New Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
1,578
Likes
3,231
Country flag
A thermobaric tank round has been developed for Arjun..

Lt Gen SH Kulkarni, AVSM, VSM, DG Mechanised Forces, visited Proof and Experimental Establishment (PXE), Chandipur, on 2 December 2013. He was briefed about various test and evaluation activities of PXE, particulars pertaining to tank ammunition and armour. Live performance of Arjun thermobaric ammunition was also demonstrated to the visiting dignitary.
http://drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/newsletter/2014/feb_14.pdf
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
This round is developed for MK2 ..

But MK1 can also use it ..
 

shuvo@y2k10

New Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
2,653
Likes
6,710
Country flag
does arjun mk1/2 has any ammunition for anti infantry use other than hesh round like the israeli apam round whose capabilities are demostrated in this video.it could be a deadly addition to the arjun ammunitions which also requires a more potent apfsds round
 
Last edited by a moderator:

sayareakd

New Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
17,734
Likes
18,953
Country flag
does arjun mk1/2 has any ammunition for anti infantry use other than hesh round like the israeli apam round whose capabilities are demostrated in this video.it could be a deadly addition to the arjun ammunitions which also requires a more potent apfsds round
what do you expect come along with LAHAT................... ??
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
Last edited by a moderator:
Top