Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[Kunal Biswas]

Its the other way around, let it be me, @sayareakd Sir, @shuvo@y2k10 all three have rejected your measurements who were actually on Arjun MK1, Hence our participation is no longer here..

You are stuborn to admit you are wrong in many ways, It is your issue..

======================

Pixal measurement of yours are just approx to some extend, Already proven wrong when you measured Saya Sir height..

they are only "superfluous" to you because they prove you wrong.

 

[sayareakd]

IA has raised problems with almost every issue with Arjun except for front armor, So if they have issues with the weak front armor, then you wont find change front armor on the main sight side in MK-2 version.

It also appears that DRDO dont have any issues with armor at the front near the main sight.

 

[Dejawolf]

Its the other way around, let it be me, @sayareakd Sir, @shuvo@y2k10 all three have rejected your measurements who were actually on Arjun MK1, Hence our participation is no longer here..

You are stuborn to admit you are wrong in many ways, It is your issue..

======================

Pixal measurement of yours are just approx to some extend, Already proven wrong when you measured Saya Sir height..

so you don't see any issue in the above drawing made by ershaktivel?

 

[ersakthivel]

they are only "superfluous" to you because they prove you wrong.

This photo of the gunner's seat back rest t just around 400 mm infront of the vertical standing hatch flies in the face of your 3D model.

You have positioned the gunner more than 300 mm in front of where he actually should be and getting a wrong LOS behind main sight.

It has been pointed out by many times but you are stubbornly refusing to answer this.

Look at the gun sledge end in both the pictures. It is around 400 mm infront of the vertical standing hatch.

The gun sledge edge is in horizontal line with the driver's seat back rest.

If you think your drawing is right place the vertical standing hatch cover at 2500 mm behind the gun front tip mark the dimension line.

Then place the gunner's seat 400 mm infront of the hatch cover.i.e 2100 mm behind the turret front tip.

Then the roof top vision block opening inside Arjun will automatically sit at a point 1600 mm behind the turret front tip.

The main sight cutaway back wall will sit at 800 mm behind the turret front tip. SO the LOS behind main sight will be 800 mm approx.


Why is it so hard to accept such a simple point?


If you can not understand it let me explain in a simple way,

The point at which the gun end sledge end is located inside the crew compartment (which is in horizontal line with gunner seat back) is 2100 mm behind the turret front plane of the covering plate over the gun mantlet(turret tip).

But in your model you have not put a measurement anywhere to make sense of it.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

To me anything going precious over the measurement are wrong, all your work are approx so does most of diagrams let it be anyone..

so you don't see any issue in the above drawing made by ershaktivel?

 

[The Last Stand]

To me anything going precious over the measurement are wrong, all your work are approx so does most of diagrams let it be anyone..

I get the feeling that all our banter and debates on this matter have been pointless, so let's stop this madness. We can judge whether the tank is good or not only if it gets tested in combat.
@ersakthivel @Dejawolf

You guys agreed to stop debating. What's the matter now?

Bury the hatchet. Let the observers decide what they want to believe for themselves.

 

[ersakthivel]

I get the feeling that all our banter and debates on this matter have been pointless, so let's stop this madness. We can judge whether the tank is good or not only if it gets tested in combat.
@ersakthivel @Dejawolf

You guys agreed to stop debating. What's the matter now?

Bury the hatchet. Let the observers decide what they want to believe for themselves.

Is the position of the gunner's seat back rest correct? Why is he not answering that?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

There is no harm doing debate on a tank capability and design so does its preform-ace...

And if there is something indeed wrong in a debate must rectified..

====================

But again this thread is meant for Arjun and not this vs that **** measuring competition..

Continue..

I get the feeling that all our banter and debates on this matter have been pointless, so let's stop this madness. We can judge whether the tank is good or not only if it gets tested in combat.:

 

[The Last Stand]

@Kunal Biswas,

Sir, I meant this debate on armour thickness weakspots and so on.

 

[militarysta]

It is at least 550 mm behind the back wall of the (dog house) main sight cutaway according to the picture

NO IT"S NOT - How many times I must explain that acoding to your beloved Arjun draw whit mesure on it we can check bar holder lenght - 520mm and konwing this value we can mesure how thick is place after main sight and BEFORE roof vision block

520mm for bar holder lenght


Here is clearly visible distance and mesure using those bar holder lenght:

Your "It is at least 550 mm behind the back wall of the (dog house) main sight" is not 550 but circa 315mm acoding to the bar holder lenght and accoding to this only trully draw whit Arjun. Sory, you write again false statsment. So whole rest of your "mesurment" is worth nothing.
It's worth crap to be onest.

The yellow rectangle is the main sight cutaway measuring 700 mm on scale

No it's not - you even can't put it in correct place:
first - it's takes only 500mm for whole "doghouse" deep (thicknes)
second - you placed it completly wrong on picture! Front of the main sight is started AFTER whole gun mantled mask thickenss, and you mark it on one line whit gun mantled mask. What is stupid over imagination couse on all photos is viisble that front of the main sight is started after gun mantled mask. I marked it porperly here:

using those bar holder as mesurment point. You can do this on photo even without known real dimension of those bar holder - just using scale how many "bar holder lenght" distance in necessary to place main sight, vision block, atc. I do this too on picture above.
Result is showing how completly stupid is your draw. Sorry - you again have no right here.



Just this two error in your "mesurment" give one result - you "mesurment" are pointles and wrong couse you can't put correct "doghouse" and you are unable to mesure distance between end of the doghouse and roof vision blokc. In other words - you mesuments are crappy.

 

[Dejawolf]

To me anything going precious over the measurement are wrong, all your work are approx so does most of diagrams let it be anyone..

and what makes ershaktivels stuff less approximate than my approximations?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Nope, Not just ershaktivels but all those who have been on Arjun MK1 inside out including ME..

Your view based on your work that is based on pixals, contradict to those who have Idea in real about tank`s dimensions..

and what makes ershaktivels stuff less approximate than my approximations?

 

[Dejawolf]

Nope, Not just ershaktivels but all those who have been on Arjun MK1 inside out including ME..

Your view based on your work that is based on pixals, contradict to those who have Idea in real about tank`s dimensions..

well, your observations clearly contradict what is evident in pictures, what is physically possible and logical.

 

[methos]

Your view based on your work that is based on pixals, contradict to those who have Idea in real about tank`s dimensions..

Really? That's not hard at all, even you contradict yourself. You made this image about the side skirts, claiming that you would know the thickness. At the same time you insist that the turret is 3.2 meters wide. Given the fact that the space between side skirts and turret is actually wider than the side skirts (which can be seen in dozen different images like this, this, this, this or this), your claimed turret width simply is impossible.


Pixel measurement is just a very accurate version of normal scale measurement. Nothing wrong with that and it is more accurate than your "I have seen it but not measured it - still you are wrong" attitude.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

It is your thinking that is coz of lack of knowledge, My measurements are not wrong but accurate..

And cannot be of others either, Pixal is approx and proven wrong already..

Really? That's not hard at all, even you contradict yourself. You made this image about the side skirts, claiming that you would know the thickness. At the same time you insist that the turret is 3.2 meters wide. Given the fact that the space between side skirts and turret is actually wider than the side skirts (which can be seen in dozen different images like this, this, this, this or this), your claimed turret width simply is impossible. .

 

[ersakthivel]

Really? That's not hard at all, even you contradict yourself. You made this image about the side skirts, claiming that you would know the thickness. At the same time you insist that the turret is 3.2 meters wide. Given the fact that the space between side skirts and turret is actually wider than the side skirts (which can be seen in dozen different images like this, this, this, this or this), your claimed turret width simply is impossible.


Pixel measurement is just a very accurate version of normal scale measurement. Nothing wrong with that and it is more accurate than your "I have seen it but not measured it - still you are wrong" attitude.

@Somreet Bhattacharya @kushalappa@sayareakd @A chauhan
@TrueSpirit @Patriot @Payeng @rahulrds1 @rahulrds1 @Yusuf
@Decklander@Appolyon@Abhi9
@brahmos @sasi @Rahul Singh@Sridhar @nitesh @Draedevil


@Kunal Biswas @LurkerBaba @ersakthivel @methos @Damian @militarysta @W.G.Ewald @Ray @pmaitra @arnabmit @Lidsky M.D. @Andrei_bt @p2prada @Austin @AUSTERLITZ @Rage @STGN @Dejawolf @Akim

According to the drawing above the base of the vertical standing hatch cover is at a distance of 2500 mm behind the turrret front tip (front face of the covering plate over gun mantle plate)

1.The red line marks the gun sledge end at 2100 mm turrret front tip (front face of the covering plate over gun mantle plate)
It also marks the back rest of gunner's seat.See that in the photo.

2.The yellow line marks the opening of roof top vision block inside crew compartment. And it is close to 500 mm infront of driver's seat back rest.This is the point at which the armor column behind the main sight cutaway stops in the crew compartment.This point lies at a distance of 1600 mm behind the turrret front tip (front face of the covering plate over gun mantle plate)

3.The green line marks the end of the main sight cutaway and it lies 700 mm behind the turrret front tip (front face of the covering plate over gun mantle plate). SO LOS behind the main sight is 1600 mm-700 mm=900 mm. approx

 

[ersakthivel]

and what makes ershaktivels stuff less approximate than my approximations?

@Somreet Bhattacharya @kushalappa@sayareakd @A chauhan
@TrueSpirit @Patriot @Payeng @rahulrds1 @rahulrds1 @Yusuf
@Decklander@Appolyon@Abhi9
@brahmos @sasi @Rahul Singh@Sridhar @nitesh @Draedevil


@Kunal Biswas @LurkerBaba @ersakthivel @methos @Damian @militarysta @W.G.Ewald @Ray @pmaitra @arnabmit @Lidsky M.D. @Andrei_bt @p2prada @Austin @AUSTERLITZ @Rage @STGN @Dejawolf @Akim

According to the drawing above the base of the vertical standing hatch cover is at a distance of 2500 mm behind the turrret front tip (front face of the covering plate over gun mantle plate)

1.The red line marks the gun sledge end at 2100 mm turrret front tip (front face of the covering plate over gun mantle plate)
It also marks the back rest of gunner's seat.See that in the photo.

2.The yellow line marks the opening of roof top vision block inside crew compartment. And it is close to 500 mm infront of driver's seat back rest.This is the point at which the armor column behind the main sight cutaway stops in the crew compartment.This point lies at a distance of 1600 mm behind the turrret front tip (front face of the covering plate over gun mantle plate)

3.The green line marks the end of the main sight cutaway and it lies 700 mm behind the turrret front tip (front face of the covering plate over gun mantle plate). SO LOS behind the main sight is 1600 mm-700 mm=900 mm. approx

 

[ersakthivel]

NO IT"S NOT - How many times I must explain that acoding to your beloved Arjun draw whit mesure on it we can check bar holder lenght - 520mm and konwing this value we can mesure how thick is place after main sight and BEFORE roof vision block

520mm for bar holder lenght


Here is clearly visible distance and mesure using those bar holder lenght:

Your "It is at least 550 mm behind the back wall of the (dog house) main sight" is not 550 but circa 315mm acoding to the bar holder lenght and accoding to this only trully draw whit Arjun. Sory, you write again false statsment. So whole rest of your "mesurment" is worth nothing.
It's worth crap to be onest.



No it's not - you even can't put it in correct place:
first - it's takes only 500mm for whole "doghouse" deep (thicknes)
second - you placed it completly wrong on picture! Front of the main sight is started AFTER whole gun mantled mask thickenss, and you mark it on one line whit gun mantled mask. What is stupid over imagination couse on all photos is viisble that front of the main sight is started after gun mantled mask. I marked it porperly here:

using those bar holder as mesurment point. You can do this on photo even without known real dimension of those bar holder - just using scale how many "bar holder lenght" distance in necessary to place main sight, vision block, atc. I do this too on picture above.
Result is showing how completly stupid is your draw. Sorry - you again have no right here.



Just this two error in your "mesurment" give one result - you "mesurment" are pointles and wrong couse you can't put correct "doghouse" and you are unable to mesure distance between end of the doghouse and roof vision blokc. In other words - you mesuments are crappy.

@Somreet Bhattacharya @kushalappa@sayareakd @A chauhan
@TrueSpirit @Patriot @Payeng @rahulrds1 @rahulrds1 @Yusuf
@Decklander@Appolyon@Abhi9
@brahmos @sasi @Rahul Singh@Sridhar @nitesh @Draedevil


@Kunal Biswas @LurkerBaba @ersakthivel @methos @Damian @militarysta @W.G.Ewald @Ray @pmaitra @arnabmit @Lidsky M.D. @Andrei_bt @p2prada @Austin @AUSTERLITZ @Rage @STGN @Dejawolf @Akim

According to the drawing above the base of the vertical standing hatch cover is at a distance of 2500 mm behind the turrret front tip (front face of the covering plate over gun mantle plate)

1.The red line marks the gun sledge end at 2100 mm turrret front tip (front face of the covering plate over gun mantle plate)
It also marks the back rest of gunner's seat.See that in the photo.

2.The yellow line marks the opening of roof top vision block inside crew compartment. And it is close to 500 mm infront of driver's seat back rest.This is the point at which the armor column behind the main sight cutaway stops in the crew compartment.This point lies at a distance of 1600 mm behind the turrret front tip (front face of the covering plate over gun mantle plate)

3.The green line marks the end of the main sight cutaway and it lies 700 mm behind the turrret front tip (front face of the covering plate over gun mantle plate). SO LOS behind the main sight is 1600 mm-700 mm=900 mm. approx

 

[ersakthivel]

The photo below is further proof that distance between gunner's seat back and the and the opening of the roof vision block inside crew compartment(red and yellow lines ) is same as the distance between the driver seat back rest and Tc's seat back head rest(black and red lines ).

 

[The Last Stand]

@ersakthivel, first you said LOS behind main sight is 630 mm, then 800 mm now 900 mm



I finally see your argument properly now, but the yellow line should not be that behind the main sight, you are cutting some poor guy's head into two pieces.