Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[Dejawolf]

sight arrangement based off pictures:

 

[ersakthivel]

and the clear big picture whit visivble armour layout:

self delete.

 

[ersakthivel]

The place at which the daylight falls on the gunner's main sight vision box is close to 1400 mm behind the turret gun matlet cover plate at the front.

Even if we deduct 700 mm for the main sight cutaway there is still 700 mm LOS thickness is there for the armor, behind orange FCS box.

And a distance equal to the driver's width (ear to ear ) is there between the gun mantlet front plate edge and main sight cutaway beginning. If you have any doubt magnify the picture and see for yourself.

There is a wiki average human face width page to know it is more than 200 mm.

So your red line measuring 120 mm width changes nothing.

It is this distance of more than 200 mm that proves the argument that there should be an armor wall right at the edge of the gun cutaway in turret inside (aka LEO-2) for same protection level wrong.

So your red line with 120 mm width changes nothing.

Since you claim to know all about ARJUN armor turret arrangement ,

What is the total length of the gun?

What is the length of the gun behind gun mantlet plate?

the roof vision block opening seems to be at the same height as that of the bottom of the vision blocks over Tc's head below the crew entry hole,almost at the same height as the bottom of the slanted orange FCS box .

Only a small distance of 1.5 times the gunner's main sight vision box separates it from the top of the gunner's head.

You cannot say it is the angle of the photo graph, because according to you it is directly in a vertical line with the top of the gunner's main vision block.
.

It means this roof vision block opening directly over the gunner;s main vision box in the picture is close to 200 mm lower than the roof level.Any explanations?

If the arrangement is like the one below it can not be visible in this photograph.

Any explanations?

 

[Dejawolf]

The place at which the daylight falls on the gunner's main sight vision box is close to 1400 mm behind the turret gun matlet cover plate at the front.
]

how do you even get these numbers to match up?`a ton of wishful thinking and magic pixie dust?

 

[ersakthivel]

This 200 mm distance(height of the front optics of gunner's main sight) above the so called vision roof vision block opening over the turret too is covered by what?

 

[ersakthivel]

how do you even get these numbers to match up?`a ton of wishful thinking and magic pixie dust?

Can you give me the six times the human head breadth length according to wikipeida measurement?

Remember the famous head measurement chart you provided from wikipedia.


So it is close to 1400 mm anyway.

 

[Dejawolf]

Remember the famous head measurement chart you provided from wikipedia.

the ones that proved you wrong about heads being 15cm long, and that you tried to refute? yeah i remember those.
after your statements were refuted (again)
you used the sellion to back of head length for the pronasal length to back of head, and additionally failed to take into consideration the heavy perspective distortion due to the close-up image, and went on to "measure" along the wall when i clearly stated that i used the vision blocks as
a measure, and not the head.
yeah i remember those.

 

[ersakthivel]

the ones that proved you wrong about heads being 15cm long, and that you tried to refute? yeah i remember those.
after your statements were refuted (again)
you used the sellion to back of head length for the pronasal length to back of head, and additionally failed to take into consideration the heavy perspective distortion due to the close-up image, and went on to "measure" along the wall when i clearly stated that i used the vision blocks as
a measure, and not the head.
yeah i remember those.

What is the distance between the center of the crew hole and the turret front tip in the following LEO turret?

It looks like 3.5 times the crew hole dia, correct me if I am wrong.

Now do you understand why LEO needs extra armor wall behind the main sight?

 

[Dejawolf]

What is the distance between the center of the crew hole and the turret front tip in the following LEO turret?

It looks like 3.5 times the crew hole dia, correct me if I am wrong.

Now do you understand why LEO needs extra armor wall behind the main sight?

distance from commanders periscope assembly to back of sight is about the same on leopard as on the arjun, because you need to be able to fit the same people in there. i'm not the one sitting here claiming that indians are magic midgets.

 

[militarysta]

The place at which the daylight falls on the gunner's main sight vision box is close to 1400 mm behind the turret gun matlet cover plate at the front.

Even if we deduct 700 mm for the main sight cutaway there is still 700 mm LOS thickness is there for the armor, behind orange FCS box.

All is visible and avaible to mesure:

And a distance equal to the driver's width (ear to ear ) is there between the gun mantlet front plate edge and main sight cutaway beginning. If you have any doubt magnify the picture and see for yourself.

There is a wiki average human face width page to know it is more than 200 mm.

So your red line measuring 120 mm width changes nothing.

Using human face or human face width is extremly STUPID when you have obvious and in HD quality factor - gun caliber - 120mm. It's obvious and really easy to use, and it's mucht more accurate cose CONSTANS 120mm value.
Ther result is obvious:

The distans between left edge of gun mantled mask and right edge of the main sight is circa 150mm max maybe 180mm it's twice less value then you think. And it's mesured taken gun caliber (120mm) not with serching human facer width or other obvious stupid methotd when you have obvious and HD visible mesure point - gun (bore) caliber.

so this:

It is this distance of more than 200 mm that proves the argument that there should be an armor wall right at the edge of the gun cutaway in turret inside (aka LEO-2) for same protection level wrong.

So your red line with 120 mm width changes nothing.

Is extremly stupid wishfull thinking couse OBVIOUS is that those lenght is circa 150-180mm becouse it's able to mesur it using gun caliber as "constans" value.
You are vrong, your argument is wrong, you have no right, and you made mistake after mistake. Your arguments are invalids. Sorry.

 

[ersakthivel]

distance from commanders periscope assembly to back of sight is about the same on leopard as on the arjun, because you need to be able to fit the same people in there. i'm not the one sitting here claiming that indians are magic midgets.

I did not ask the distance from commanders periscope to main sight back side. Don't you understand the question?

Answer the question what is the distance between the crew hole center and the turret gun front in LEO?

And what is the same distance in ARJUN?

If you cannot give a straight forward answer. Say I don't know and lets finish this debate.

There is no use in talking with guys who can not answer an inconvenient simple straight question and propounding theories about indian magical midgets.

 

[ersakthivel]

All is visible and avaible to mesure:

Using human face or human face width is extremly STUPID when you have obvious and in HD quality factor - gun caliber - 120mm. It's obvious and really easy to use, and it's mucht more accurate cose CONSTANS 120mm value.
Ther result is obvious:

The distans between left edge of gun mantled mask and right edge of the main sight is circa 150mm max maybe 180mm it's twice less value then you think. And it's mesured taken gun caliber (120mm) not with serching human facer width or other obvious stupid methotd when you have obvious and HD visible mesure point - gun (bore) caliber.

so this:


Is extremly stupid wishfull thinking couse OBVIOUS is that those lenght is circa 150-180mm becouse it's able to mesur it using gun caliber as "constans" value.
You are vrong, your argument is wrong, you have no right, and you made mistake after mistake. Your arguments are invalids. Sorry.

The gun caliber plane is at least two meters in front of the driver'd head plane. Only people who don't know anything about perspective distortions will go for such stupid comparison to suit their peculiar needs.

First of all you don't even understand what is the basic decency norm in conducting a debate in open forum.

You have no right to push your fond assumptions on other people's head without answering a simple question in a honest and straight forward manner.

many times you kept silent faced with inconvenient questioning.

Most glaring is the height of the roof vision block in the inside crew photo

So let this be the last extremely stupid conversation between you and me on this topic.

 

[Dejawolf]

The gun caliber plane is at least two meters in front of the driver'd head plane. Only people who don't know anything about perspective distortions will go for such stupid comparison to suit their peculiar needs.

First of all you don't even understand what is the basic decency norm in conducting a debate in open forum.

You have no right to push your fond assumptions on other people's head without answering a simple question in a honest and straight forward manner.

many times you kept silent faced with inconvenient questioning.

Most glaring is the height of the roof vision block in the inside crew photo

So let this be the last extremely stupid conversation between you and me on this topic.

lol, the distance is abut 138cm, from TCs hatch hole center to main gun back wall, and 120cm from the longest back wall point on the leopard to TC hatch center.
sam distances in arjun 3d model: 138cm and 100cm.

 

[militarysta]

The gun caliber plane is at least two meters in front of the driver'd head plane. Only people who don't know anything about perspective distortions will go for such stupid comparison to suit their peculiar needs.

Yes -there will be big error in mesurment -but even those (using 120mm caliber) shows that you where completly wrong and it's not nececery to use completly stupid mesurment using face..
But if You want more accurate mesurment -try to forced whit this:

Simpler, more accurate, and showing again that you have no single idea about what you are talking.
distance (horizontal) between edge of the gun mantled mask and edge of the main sight "doghouse" is circa 70mm (maybe 80mm)
those metal plate between front of main sight doghouse and edge of gun mantled mask have in thickes place 125mm width -it's before main sight

Both values - 70/80mm and 125mm are far far smaller then you imagine wishfull thinking "300mm". No there is no 300. There is metal plate between edge of the gun mantled mask and edge of the main sight "doghouse" - thicker before this sight (circa 125mm) and thinner on hight this "doghouse" (circa 70/80mm).
Again - you where wrong, your argument was invaild, you have no idea what you are writing here
Sorry again -it's not may fault that 90% of your statsment are bullshit over the imagination.

oh, and espacially for you bigger picture:

try to forced whit this

 

[Dejawolf]

tried to measure the barrel a bit:

first took the measure of 120mm for barrel tip, and came to a thickness of about 15.9cm for the outer barrel (could be 16cm)
moved on from that with a side measure at a point where there is no barrel cap, and came to a diameter of 201mm for the thermal sleeve.

now there's this image:

i like this image, over the space of ~1.5 meters there's barely 1.1% deviation in hull width, and measuring head widths they're nearly the same for the driver and commander, 61 and 63 pixels.
but i guess you see what i did. using the measures i came to from the gun barrel image, i compared the ratio between various parts on this image to it,
and a lot of measures are fairly close. 50th percentile bitragion breadth is 14.5, and here it measured 13.8.
inner hull width is 2 meters, and here it measures 2.017 meters
and WITHOUT taking perspective distortion into account, i came to a total hull width of 3908mm which is close enough to the real number

 

[Dejawolf]

barrel measure pic

 

[militarysta]

@Dejawolf

Draw from Kampfpanzer heute und morgen:

DRDO width - 3864mm

red line 256px - 3864mm
190px - 2867mm (2,86m)
158px - 2384mm (2,38m)
20px - 301mm (30cm...)

More or less your mesurment is consist whit this draw

 

[Dejawolf]

yes, additionally:

197 px = 297cm
186ox = 280cm
136px = 205cm

so pretty much consistent

 

[The Last Stand]

yes, additionally:

197 px = 297cm
186ox = 280cm
136px = 205cm

so pretty much consistent

Hmm, is that an official image for you to make such calculations

 

[ersakthivel]

Hmm, is that an official image for you to make such calculations

Any image that has no dimensions,no scale,no name plate is official !