Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[Dejawolf]

shows positioning of lamp and emergency sight. emergency sight is linked to the roof, and there's a hinge close to the front mantlet, so it won't move up and down with the gun. (similar to arrangement on leopard 2a4/ abrams, etc.

 

[Dejawolf]

seems like the arjun has a fairly small ready ammo count for the coax. at least the coax ammunition mount seems small, especially compared to the ready bins on the leopard 2A4 and Abrams.

 

[militarysta]

AFAIK that close to 300 mm lateral space to the left of the orange sloped Gunner's FCS box is not present in your 3d models.

And that is the reason you are getting wrong inferences about LOS armor thickness behind main sight.

In your 3d model the left edge of the vision block over the gunner's roof is in line with the left edge of the inner turret armor wall behind the main sight which is also wrong.

In fact this arrangement belongs to that of LEO. Not ARJUN

Placment in 3D is correct:


how you explain edges on that photo?
orange FCS and gunner vision block is in one line.

 

[militarysta]

Becouse some peopels here can't image how big is main sight in tank I found photo of the Arjun main sight and compare it whit this what is visible (blue) and in theory hidden (green) - and those "hidden" is making huge gap in armour to.

 

[Crusader53]

53]Nothing wrong with that.

but for that to happen Indian army should take a decision to induct ARJUN mk-2 in 1000s to replace the obsolete 1000 plus T-72 MBTs without asking for never ending improvements and weight reduction on ARJUN.

That will spur domestic higher power engine and higher penetration APFSDS ammo R&D .

Then only we can export ARJUN with domestic indian engines at a much cheaper cost to taiwan or any other country,

If they keep on giving ARJUN orders in 120 unit lots and T-90 orders in 300 unit lots, and continue to ride their non existent hobby horse of FMBT ,any hope of reasonable ARJUN numbers in Indian army itself is a mirage.

Well, in the case of the Arjun the option of two engines could be a selling point! Regardless, this is the perfect case that India should be exploring in my opinion. Look Taiwan has the money but has limited options. As much of the world is afraid to anger China and won't sell arms to Taiwan.

Think about it a perfect win win. As India wants to export Arms and Taiwan needs the Arms. Plus, both consider China as a "Adversary"..........enough said.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

This would be all possible if we Indian ourselves induct large amount of Indian tank first..

This will reduce import components so does unit cost..

Well, in the case of the Arjun the option of two engines could be a selling point! Regardless, this is the perfect case that India should be exploring in my opinion. Look Taiwan has the money but has limited options. As much of the world is afraid to anger China and won't sell arms to Taiwan.

Think about it a perfect win win. As India wants to export Arms and Taiwan needs the Arms. Plus, both consider China as a "Adversary"..........enough said.

 

[ersakthivel]

Placment in 3D is correct:


how you explain edges on that photo?

orange FCS and gunner vision block is in one line.

correct. But what I said was this is a stepped up inner wall behind the main sight.

In the following photo carefully look at the point you marked as A. Notice the flat portion of the inner turret wall right under the star you marked as A.

It is this flat portion close to 300 mm long that is situated behind the horizontal gap between the main sight sight edge and gun mantlet edge.

It is this horizontal step in the inner turret armor wall that is missing in Dejawolf's 3d model.

This portion is not that long in LEO and that is why the armor wall in LEO above gunner's FCS starts so close to the gun holder cutaway in the above pic.

orange FCS and gunner vision block is in one line.

So this wall behind the orange FCS and the gunner vision box is actually a step up from that flat wall below the point you marked as A with the star in the photo.

how do you explain the big bulging folds on the turret inner wall behind the orange FCS.

Do you think that wall is flat like the 3D model posted here. NO.

Look at the place where this big folding inner turret wall behind the orange FCS meets the turret inner roof . Is it a flat wall as per the 3D model.

No.

So this 3d model below is very different from the picture above.Where is the bumpy inner turret wall behind the ARJUN turret front in the model below?

In the 3D model depicted below the armor block is flat behind the gunner's vision box with binocular eye piece, which is incorrect.

But in the picture it seems to be curving , indicating better armor protection behind the main sight.

 

[ersakthivel]

Becouse some peopels here can't image how big is main sight in tank I found photo of the Arjun main sight and compare it whit this what is visible (blue) and in theory hidden (green) - and those "hidden" is making huge gap in armour to.

All people here know that.It is you who can not understand the implication of the close to 300 HORIZONTAL mm gap between the main gun mantle and the turret front main sight , and this is the reason that ARJUN does not need it's armor block behind the main sight to start right at the edge of gun mantle edge like LEO.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its been long time i have been on Arjun, But tracking back at defexpo 2012, I did mention that there is Armour block which has thicker in composition behind main sight..

Also mentioned its not protected as behind composite Armour but not a butter knife either, I hope to clear most doubts in 2014 expo for most..

 

[ersakthivel]

Its been long time i have been on Arjun, But tracking back at defexpo 2012, I did mention that there is Armour block which has thicker in composition behind main sight..

Also mentioned its not protected as behind composite Armour but not a butter knife either, I hope to clear most doubts in 2014 expo for most..

Add to that half the height of the so called weak spot behind the main sight must be in line with the thick turret roof plate.

So there is no possibility of and APFSD round to penetrate through the top portion of the main sight , because there is a 2 meter long roof plate with substantial thickness behind the main sight.

So a very small protruding armor block 700 mm in depth , just covering the back side of the bottom portion of the main sight alone is enough to offer even protection through out the turret front with no weak spot.

is it there or not only service guys can clarify. because that area is very obscure in all photos.

the photo above seems to suggest some extended armor protection behind the main sight(especially the second photo on the top row.)

we can clearly see some horizontal depth above the orange FCS box near the turret inner roof , instead of a flat surface like the Dejawolf 3d model.

The blue optic lense like stuff seems to be placed vertically on the sides of the extended armor wall behind the main sight bottom portion.

or the orange FCS box bolted on to the roof like the way it is shown in india today photo below with empty space behind the orange FCS box and flat inner turret wall of ARJUN?

If it is not covered under OPSEC then you can answer that.

Since you could have seen the operational tank you can settle this matter.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its hard to tell, It been a long time will keep these points in mind when see the Arjun again..

Note : Arjun in expos are mostly prototypes, In 2010 these was a operational example put in Expo but entering that vehicle was restricted, Then in 2012 they bring a prototype in which entering was allowed..

 

[ersakthivel]

Its hard to tell, It been a long time will keep these points in mind when see the Arjun again..

Note : Arjun in expos are mostly prototypes, In 2010 these was a operational example put in Expo but entering that vehicle was restricted, Then in 2012 they bring a prototype in which entering was allowed..

So most of the 3D model building is based on very old prototype photos with no relation to operational tank.

is it correct?

 

[Dejawolf]

Add to that half the height of the so called weak spot behind the main sight must be in line with the thick turret roof plate.

So there is no possibility of and APFSD round to penetrate through the top portion of the main sight , because there is a 2 meter long roof plate with substantial thickness behind the main sight.

So a very small protruding armor block 700 mm in depth , just covering the back side of the bottom portion of the main sight alone is enough to offer even protection through out the turret front with no weak spot.

is it there or not only service guys can clarify. because that area is very obscure in all photos.

the photo above seems to suggest some extended armor protection behind the main sight(especially the second photo on the top row.)

we can clearly see some horizontal depth above the orange FCS box near the turret inner roof , instead of a flat surface like the Dejawolf 3d model.

The blue optic lense like stuff seems to be placed vertically on the sides of the extended armor wall behind the main sight bottom portion.

or the orange FCS box bolted on to the roof like the way it is shown in india today photo below with empty space behind the orange FCS box and flat inner turret wall of ARJUN?

If it is not covered under OPSEC then you can answer that.

Since you could have seen the operational tank you can settle this matter.

bluffing, and diverting attention, that's all you do.
you were wrong about the position of the light, the gunners auxillary sight, and the vision port, and you conclude with being right? gimme a ----ing break.
as for your dreams about an angled wall behind the FCS box, lol yeah right. look at the plate behind the green and black input panel to the right of the yellow box. doesn't look much angled to me.

 

[ersakthivel]

bluffing, and diverting attention, that's all you do.
you were wrong about the position of the light, the gunners auxillary sight, and the vision port, and you conclude with being right? gimme a ----ing break.
as for your dreams about an angled wall behind the FCS box, lol yeah right. look at the plate behind the green and black input panel to the right of the yellow box. doesn't look much angled to me.

I will grant you the - - - - ing break. After that you can take long looks at STGN pic and come to some conclusion on ARJUn turret width.

Also you can have a very hard look at the first top left corner photo above.The place-near the left side shadow of the orange FCS box falling on the armored wall.

The sharp vertical edge of that wall is slanting, unlike your 3d model below.


or take a look at the second photo at the place near the inner turret roof above the orange FCS box(above the white rectangular box with blue optic like piece.) ,

where a thin red stripe is fixed on what? the side of the vertical wall.

how do you plan to accomadate that in your so called 3d models of ARJUN?

And there is an oil leakage type black line coming vertically down from the red strip.is it hanging in the air, if there is no vertical coloumn there?


There is a substantial depth of the white armored column after that oil leak type black vertical line.How do you explain that with your flat wall behind the orange FCS box 3D model? How can you project that depth in your 3D model?
,

either you can acknowledge it or keep quiet like the way you did ,

with the question on the height of the roof vision block showing inside the ARJUN turret in line with the Tc's vision block height

and the missing 300 mm distance between the edge of the mantlet plate and main sight edge.

And you can send your LEO based 3D models in Recycle bin folders as well.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

As i have said before, Its based on best guess and fragment from different prototypes of Arjun MK-1..

From Defe-expo 2012, It was a DRDO Prototype
From Magazine back in 2009, It was a DRDO Prototype
From Inside DRDO show 2013, It was a DRDO prototype used for MK2 electronics such as Commander electronic Sight..

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There are no photo of Operational Arjun`s internal ever posted on Net..

So most of the 3D model building is based on very old prototype photos with no relation to operational tank.

is it correct?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Keep things Civil..

gimme a ----ing break..

I will grant you the - - - - ing break.

 

[ersakthivel]

Keep things Civil..

I should follow that and report his posts instead of retorting.
but the heat of the moment gets better of me.

I should stop arguing with him as well, as it serves no practical purpose.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

There is a Ignore option, you can put each other on list, till you both back to Civil form..

 

[militarysta]

 

[militarysta]

and the clear big picture whit visivble armour layout: