Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[ersakthivel]

And value 200mm is taking from where? From space?

what is the height of the bottom edge of the vision blocks over TC's head from the inner turret roof / take a good look at the photo below.

it must be close to 200 mm below the inner roof of ARJUN.

Show me proof that turret slopes close to 200 mm from the crew hatch position to roof top FCS position using the line drawing posted by PAMAITRA

Take a good look at the photo below,

the entire slant from gun tip to roof top above the crew hatch is less than 200 mm.

if it is straight behind the orange FCS box at the top of the roof like in the 3D model shown below, there is no way it can be visible in this photo below .

And of course you don't consider the fact that there is slight slopped turret roof, and there is comander coupola ABOVE the turret roof level and that periscope have (visible on photos) rather small hight.
BTW: place on this draw those vision block above gunner sight vision block and use brain:
http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/data/3497/Arjun MBT Sketch.jpg
thinking is not painfull

Read the post 5074 and answer the three questions I put to DEJAWOLF.

it is not a very painful enterprise I suppose,

 

[militarysta]

How long are you going to keep quiet about that this large difference of close to 600 mm has no role in the estimation of the frontal turret protection behind the main sight?

Becouse on all photos is clearly visible in what place is started frontplate after main sight "doghouse" and when it's ending (before roof vision block above gunner main sight vision block) - and those distance is equal 315-350mm LOS. It's circa twice less then on Leopard-2A4. You have it marked here:

Any other distance in that case is not relevant, is not importnat.
Importnat is only lenght between end of main sight "doghouse" and front of the turret roof vision block (those above gunner sight vision block).
Those lenght is equal to circa 315-350mm
The whole rest is not relevant and it have no influence on this one needed lenght. You still don't understand it.

 

[ersakthivel]

but there is offcial HULL width and known that value you can rescale it. It's simple

how did you re scale ?

by the above method perhaps?

take a good look at the photo below, the gap between the inner side turret wall and the crew hole edge must be around 100 mm only.because the crew hole dia itself is just 220 mm.

If the first storage boxes are replaced with composite armor then what is the side turret protection?

 

[ersakthivel]

Becouse on all photos is clearly visible in what place is started frontplate after main sight "doghouse" and when it's ending (before roof vision block above gunner main sight vision block) - and those distance is equal 315-350mm LOS. It's circa twice less then on Leopard-2A4. You have it marked here:

Any other distance in that case is not relevant, is not importnat.
Importnat is only lenght between end of main sight "doghouse" and front of the turret roof vision block (those above gunner sight vision block).
Those lenght is equal to circa 315-350mm
The whole rest is not relevant and it have no influence on this one needed lenght. You still don't understand it.

where the slope starts and ends?

Slope starts only after the roof vision block and ends at gun mantlet plate.

 

[Dejawolf]

Show me the proof , How did you arrive at the turret width of 2800 mm or 2900 mm or any measurement ?

Any official proof?

i've shown you my proof already, i've shown you the pictures how about you show some proof for some of your claims?
how about some proof that the turret sides are 90 degrees and not angled?

 

[Dejawolf]

how did you re scale ?

by the above method perhaps?

lol, if you cannot rescale it, maybe you shouldn't be discussing this stuff at all....

 

[Dejawolf]

Did you include partial frontal side skirts in your total hull width calculation based on hatch cover width of 540mm?

Are the partial frontal side skirts included in the official hull width of 3864mm?

of course they are included. we're not amateurs.

 

[Dejawolf]

Show me the proof , How did you arrive at the turret width of 2800 mm or 2900 mm or any measurement ?

Any official proof?

Without knowing the turret width you can not place the position of the main sight on the turret.

The height of the roof vision block is close to the bottom level of the vision blocks over Tc's head.

The bottom edge of the vision blocks over Tc's head is close to 200 mm below the inner turret roof level.

how can the roof top vision block over the gunners main sight vision block visible at the same height as that of the vision blocks over Tc's head(at a height of lower than 200 mm below the inner turret roof) ?

if the arrangement of the roof top vision block is like that of your following model below., considering the angle of the photo, there is no way the roof top vision block over gunner's main sight block can be covered in this photo?

Now who is lying ?

I asked you a simple question.\What is the turret length distance between the crew hole center and front gun mantlet plate of LEO?
According to my estimates from photo . this distance seems to be 3.5 times the crew hole dia. That is 3.5X 450 mm(my estimate of crew hole dia in LEO-2)=1625 mm.

but in the line drawing provided by PAMITRA the same distance is close to 2250 mm.

How long are you going to keep quiet, that this large difference of close to 600 mm has no role in the estimation of the frontal turret protection behind the main sight?

lol what? quiet? i've already told you once, just search through my replies and you'll find it. although i measured to the back of the mantlet wall, and not the front if i remember correctly. maybe you should try and read what i write for once.

 

[ersakthivel]

300mm? Yes, it is:




No, it's not - you can mesure turret front armour without turret width. All what is needed is ONE sure real dimension and knowledges when armour start (frontplate) and when it's ending (beckplate). Turret width have nothing to do here.



Again - turret width have nothin to do whit those above. All is visible on interior photos on films - whit one greate indicator - turret roof vision block. And it's really possible to mesure armour width after main sight doghouse cose it's clearly visible when is ending and starting those sight "doghouse"



Becouse it's true and obvious. I masuret spacial armour block after EMES-15 main sight in Leo-2 - thickenss is 650mm LOS
In Arjun on all avaible mesurments it's circa 300-350mm so half less. And it's fact, and turret width have nothing to do whit this.
As I sai - try to forced whit this:

On the last picture is clearly visible how big and how placed is main sight "doghouse" in Arjun -so it's possible to marked lines when armour blokc after "doghouse" is starting.
And on those photos:



Is clearly visible that end of the armour (backplate) is ending BEFORE turret vision block (those before ornage slopped FCS).
So it's only ONE dimension to mesure it. It's simple to do this.

Arjun special armour after main sight have only circa 300-350mm LOS. And it's big weak point.

Where is the side slope on the turret?

What is the distance between the standing vertical hatch cover edge and the side turret outer wall. Close to 800 mm.

Deduct 400 mm for the storage box, still 400 mm side turret thickness remains.

As per the photo belo there is a distance of only 100 mm between the crew hole edge and inner armor wall of ARJUN tuerret,

So deduct 100 mm from the 400 mm. So a distance of close to 300 mm still remains for the side turret armor width,

why don't you unveil your pixel magic on this photo.

 

[Dejawolf]

turret width is never marked on any official DRDO drawing, if it is there post it.

i asked for any official proof of turret width?

how about you put yourself through your own impossible standards? any official proof for your claims?
absolutely none? measured mostly by eye? too bad.

 

[ersakthivel]

how about you put yourself through your own impossible standards? any official proof for your claims?
absolutely none? measured mostly by eye? too bad.

I did not post any unofficial 3D models claiming to know the width of ARJUN turret to be 2900 mm

I just took it from the photo posted by KUNAL biswas years before I started posting in this forum.

it is you who claims to have measured ARJUN width all by yourself. Not me.

What about your standards, from where you got your figure of 2900 mm?

Where is the side slope on the turret?

What is the distance between the standing vertical hatch cover edge and the side turret outer wall. Close to 800 mm.

Deduct 400 mm for the storage box, still 400 mm side turret thickness remains.

As per the photo belo there is a distance of only 100 mm between the crew hole edge and inner armor wall of ARJUN tuerret,

So deduct 100 mm from the 400 mm. So a distance of close to 300 mm still remains for the side turret armor width,

why don't you unveil your pixel magic on this photo.

So you are wrong about side turret armor protection as well.

So from where did you get this soap box model for ARJUN turret below?

The distance between outer wall of side turret and the edge of the crew hatch in your model is actually half than the actual distance on the photo of ARJUN blazing away in the trials, MR . PRO

Only a brave person like you will use such stupid model to asses the side turret thickness of even a soap box.

 

[ersakthivel]

lol, if you cannot rescale it, maybe you shouldn't be discussing this stuff at all....

What is the magic of rescaling without even having the scale?

Mark the center line of the turret top, use 540 mm as the standing vertical crew hatch width and you will get the turret width.Unveil your pixel magic here again.

]And where is the slope on the turret side, Mr. PRO?

 

[ersakthivel]

I have doubts if you just one time think about what you are writing in Arjun thema... There is no inconsist in values 2867 or circa 3000mm for turet width becouse Arjun have this shape of the turret:

Compare the blue A lines, and red C and E line.
Red E line is obvious longer then C line -couse arjun turret shape.
And hipotetical line marked on turret front will be shorther then C and E line.
Just try to image this and understand - Arjun turret front is less width then turret center. And it's quite big difrence (circa 20cm)

Compare your so called model with the photo of the ARJUN.

from where you got your figure of 2900 mm?

Where is the side slope on the turret?

What is the distance between the standing vertical hatch cover edge and the side turret outer wall. Close to 800 mm.

Deduct 400 mm for the storage box, still 400 mm side turret thickness remains.

As per the photo belo there is a distance of only 100 mm between the crew hole edge and inner armor wall of ARJUN tuerret,

So deduct 100 mm from the 400 mm. So a distance of close to 300 mm still remains for the side turret armor width,

why don't you unveil your pixel magic on this photo.

 

[SilentKiller]

Its been long time i have been on Arjun, But tracking back at defexpo 2012, I did mention that there is Armour block which has thicker in composition behind main sight..

Also mentioned its not protected as behind composite Armour but not a butter knife either, I hope to clear most doubts in 2014 expo for most..

i would love to join you in expo, hope i am around Delhi during that time.
still a lot of time to go

 

[STGN]

Did you include partial frontal side skirts in your total hull width calculation based on hatch cover width of 540mm?

Are the partial frontal side skirts included in the official hull width of 3864mm?

I am not quit sure what you are asking in the first question did I "include" the armor skirts? it was based on width of the thin skirts next to/besides the commander hatch swivel point.

The armor skirts are included in the 3864mm as I have explained at length before.
STGN

 

[militarysta]

what is the height of the bottom edge of the vision blocks over TC's head from the inner turret roof / take a good look at the photo below.
it must be close to 200 mm below the inner roof of ARJUN.

Show me proof that turret slopes close to 200 mm from the crew hatch position to roof top FCS position using the line drawing posted by PAMAITRA

Take a good look at the photo below,

the entire slant from gun tip to roof top above the crew hatch is less than 200 mm.

It have no influence cause those turret roof vision block (periscope) is ending on turret roof level:

See? it's on level the same as the rest.
There is no place for armour.

 

[Dejawolf]

What is the magic of rescaling without even having the scale?

if you don't have the scale, you find the scale, by using a real measure.

 

[Dejawolf]

Where is the side slope on the turret?

well, the line drawing is a dead giveaway.
then there's these 2 pictures to support the line drawing:

first picture there's a clear angle on the stowage boxes, second picture, the red line forms a triangle with the side turret wall, yet is perfectly aligned with the
cover plates for the ammunition storage.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The bulge is very slight, It is not noticeable even over the tank..

 

[militarysta]

The bulge is very slight, It is not noticeable even over the tank..

But it's not so small when you are trying to mesure tank turret:




and I suppose that quality of the first Arjun bathes coud be not so very good and those "boxes" coud have not so proper diamensions...