Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[Kunal Biswas]

Very early version of Arjun, Seems DRDO tried to rectify sight flaw but not accepted..

 

[t_co]

Quick question--now that the Arjun Mk 2 is out of testing, which factories will be responsible for its production?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

That is presently unknown..

 

[t_co]

That is presently unknown..

Okay. Interested because that will give us some indication as to planned size of the Arjun Mk 2 fleet. Also, such information should be easily discoverable to the public; it is hard to hide tanks getting shipped out of a factory.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Work On CLGM >>

 

[Blood+]

Very early version of Arjun, Seems DRDO tried to rectify sight flaw but not accepted..

Well,this one looks to be more matured than production version!!

 

[t_co]

Er, I read an earlier statement by @ersakthivel about how the Arjun tank had a special sabot round capable of taking down a Merkava at 2km, but the most recent APFSDS round shown in the DRDO exhibit only displays 300mm RHAe penetration at 2km. Why?

 

[DivineHeretic]

India uses shells/rounds from multiple countries, most notably the Invar from Russia and the LAHAT tank launched missile for AT roles in addition to indian made munition. The LAHAT has a kill range of around 8km so these may be the shells he was referring to. Note that the Arjun with its L55 gun can launch rounds at 1600-1700 m/s. Thats fast,vey fast.

 

[Blood+]

India uses shells/rounds from multiple countries, most notably the Invar from Russia and the LAHAT tank launched missile for AT roles in addition to indian made munition. The LAHAT has a kill range of around 8km so these may be the shells he was referring to. Note that the Arjun with its L55 gun can launch rounds at 1600-1700 m/s. Thats fast,vey fast.

And note that Arjun doesn't have a L55 gun but a L52 gun.And mussel velocity alone stads for nothing<there are many other variables involved like length and weight of the penetrator,L/D ratio of penetrator,composition of the penetrator etc.
You see my friend,the American M829A3 has length of almost 900 mm but slower at 1500 metr/sec yet it's wstimated to pierce 850-900 mm of RHA at 2000 meters.

 

[DivineHeretic]

And note that Arjun doesn't have a L55 gun but a L52 gun.And mussel velocity alone stads for nothing<there are many other variables involved like length and weight of the penetrator,L/D ratio of penetrator,composition of the penetrator etc.
You see my friend,the American M829A3 has length of almost 900 mm but slower at 1500 metr/sec yet it's wstimated to pierce 850-900 mm of RHA at 2000 meters.

Oops my bad,thanx for the correction.

 

[t_co]

And note that Arjun doesn't have a L55 gun but a L52 gun.And mussel velocity alone stads for nothing<there are many other variables involved like length and weight of the penetrator,L/D ratio of penetrator,composition of the penetrator etc.
You see my friend,the American M829A3 has length of almost 900 mm but slower at 1500 metr/sec yet it's wstimated to pierce 850-900 mm of RHA at 2000 meters.

That's also because the Indian penetrator weights about 6 kg, while the US penetrator weighs 10kg while being slightly smaller, since it is made out of depleted uranium.

 

[Damian]

Ehm, actually during tests in NATO and from real battlefield experiences, it become obvious that shaped charge jet is less lethal to the crew inside than APFSDS penetrator, however this is because during penetration, APFSDS penetrator, takes with it, much more armor fragments, simply because tanks armor is thicker, have more mass.

In case of lightly armored vehicles, APFSDS penetratror would go stright through, making mostly minimal damage, this is why HEAT rounds are more effective, although the most effective would be programmable HE that would perforate armor and explode inside.

 

[t_co]

Ehm, actually during tests in NATO and from real battlefield experiences, it become obvious that shaped charge jet is less lethal to the crew inside than APFSDS penetrator, however this is because during penetration, APFSDS penetrator, takes with it, much more armor fragments, simply because tanks armor is thicker, have more mass.

In case of lightly armored vehicles, APFSDS penetratror would go stright through, making mostly minimal damage, this is why HEAT rounds are more effective, although the most effective would be programmable HE that would perforate armor and explode inside.

Right, that's exactly what I said, using APFSDS rounds to kill APCs and soft-skinned vehicles is a waste.

 

[methos]

Actually APCs and IFVs often have too less armour to break the APFSDS penetrator, meaning that the whole spall is the generated by the small hole in the thin base armour.

For killing the crew of an light-/medium armoured APC/IFV, HE, HESH, HEAT or PELE should be used.

 

[Shirman]

Right, that's exactly what I said, using APFSDS rounds to kill APCs and soft-skinned vehicles is a waste.

Sir, What U exactly said was:-"Also, using the 120mm APFSDS round to kill APCs is a waste; those vehicles are what HESH and HEAT rounds are for,"

Two questions arises out of my mind ? :-

Q no 1: Does PRC's PLA and Paki Army only uses APCs or they also use MBTs n Tanks? which they will use during a conflict ?

Q no 2: Does PRC's PLA and Paki Army only have "Soft Skin APCs or they also have reinforced thick era ?

If Yes then i think Indian Army with Present Arjun Tank with rifled gun will be more than happy with HESH n HEAT rounds.....

 

[Damian]

Well there are two problems.

First is that it seems Pakistan receives "Knife' ERA Know How from Ukraine, such ERA seems to be also safe for use on lightly armored APC's and IFV's as if I am not wrong, was also considered by Polish Army to up armor Rosomak APC.

As for PRC, we do not know much about their ERA, but what we know, is that they are learning quickly in this area, and if they are cooperating with NII Stali, they also can receive a light ERA safe to use on lightly armored platforms.

We know that USA and Israel cooperated with NII Stali to develop their own ERA, and USA is using ARAT, BRAT and SRAT ERA family for M1 MBT's, M2 IFV's and Stryker APC's, this type of ERA have multilayer internal structure, and at least in case of ARAT, there can be mounted additional, exterior ARAT-2 cassette with a shape that resassembles scutum shield.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The poster about 300mm from 2000km is of an prototype..

When we were doing 425 or 400 , the Army decided that we should go for a higher penetration capability, 600, and they wanted to do it urgently because this was a post-Kargil requirement. So they went for import. And that import has unfortunately not fructified due to various reasons. Now because we realize that there is going to be a gap, we have already upgraded this (FSAPDS) to 500.

interview link

Present one are in production are 400- 425mm from 2000m, And upgraded are 500mm from 2000...

 

[Kunal Biswas]

From Arjun prespective >>

1. In modern Armour assault or even defense, IFV/APC support tanks in an formation, that means both of them will be engaged..

2. Presently they don`t over field..

Arjun use AP rounds mainly for MBT, For other targets its HESH..

Q no 1: Does PRC's PLA and Paki Army only uses APCs or they also use MBTs n Tanks? which they will use during a conflict ?

Q no 2: Does PRC's PLA and Paki Army only have "Soft Skin APCs or they also have reinforced thick era ?.

 

[Shirman]

Well there are two problems.

First is that it seems Pakistan receives "Knife' ERA Know How from Ukraine, such ERA seems to be also safe for use on lightly armored APC's and IFV's as if I am not wrong, was also considered by Polish Army to up armor Rosomak APC.

As for PRC, we do not know much about their ERA, but what we know, is that they are learning quickly in this area, and if they are cooperating with NII Stali, they also can receive a light ERA safe to use on lightly armored platforms.

We know that USA and Israel cooperated with NII Stali to develop their own ERA, and USA is using ARAT, BRAT and SRAT ERA family for M1 MBT's, M2 IFV's and Stryker APC's, this type of ERA have multilayer internal structure, and at least in case of ARAT, there can be mounted additional, exterior ARAT-2 cassette with a shape that resassembles scutum shield.

Well This is some bad news for IA,

But i wanted to Ask @militarysta Sir how will the isreali IMI rounds offered to India to use with Arjun Rifled guns and t-series tanks ie:- both 125mm and 120mm MK.2 round fare against NII Stali era or lets say Knife Duplet {I Know its Banned}

And off topic "my sources" tells me India's acquisition of Rafael spike series missiles (which by the way u Polish guys also operate) was made keeping "Pakistan "Knife' ERA Know How from Ukraine" in mind during its trials..... Surely u Polish or Isrealis must know the density of that era during ur trials and lets say Spike missiles Penetration capability. Weather it was able to penetrate successfully or not........What i do know that IMI M338 and M339 "can" penetrate along with APAM 120mm rounds............

 

[methos]

Present one are in production are 400- 425mm from 2000m, And upgraded are 500mm from 2000...

It also could be just a different way of measurement. 300 mm certified penetration following the Soviet certification system (meaning 70% of the rounds penetrate as much armour) could be 350 mm average penetration. Into 60° sloped armour (where APFSDS can penetrate more armour) this might be 400 to 425 mm penetration.

The photo used in this image is atleast identical to the photo used on the DRDO websites and the values are identical to that of the DRDO website and the values of the Indian Ordnance Factories websites - which implies that the ammunition is the same.