Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[Austin]

Well in essence its a 1400 hp engine , you can always turbo charge an engine to get extra oomph but it comes with engine life and fuel is what i read.

I think the ERA are custom made K-5 , DRDO ERA so far developed appear to be thicker in size as can be seen on T-72 CIA but we will wait for more info.

As far as 90 % goes thats just the way you look at it , they use Lic Produce stuff in India and call it Indian made and call it indiginous content ,only direct import stuff are counted as import. ( Typical way our PSU passes on screw driver technology as indiginous when these are imported and assembled here _

So 90 % may be true if you use that way of looking it , eventually even Su-30MKI would be 90 % indiginous if i use lic manuf as benchmark.

 

[Equanimity]

...

As far as 90 % goes thats just the way you look at it , they use Lic Produce stuff in India and call it Indian made and call it indiginous content ,only direct import stuff are counted as import. ( Typical way our PSU passes on screw driver technology as indiginous when these are imported and assembled here _

So 90 % may be true if you use that way of looking it , eventually even Su-30MKI would be 90 % indiginous if i use lic manuf as benchmark.

In that way, can one call license production of T-90 or T-72 as indigenous, since the major components are manufactured in India after TOT?

Also if an Indian company acquires a foreign firm, as subsidary, that produces weapons for Indian armed forces, can that weapon be called indigenous?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Well in essence its a 1400 hp engine , you can always turbo charge an engine to get extra oomph but it comes with engine life and fuel is what i read.

I think the ERA are custom made K-5 , DRDO ERA so far developed appear to be thicker in size as can be seen on T-72 CIA but we will wait for more info.

As far as 90 % goes thats just the way you look at it , they use Lic Produce stuff in India and call it Indian made and call it indiginous content ,only direct import stuff are counted as import. ( Typical way our PSU passes on screw driver technology as indiginous when these are imported and assembled here _

So 90 % may be true if you use that way of looking it , eventually even Su-30MKI would be 90 % indiginous if i use lic manuf as benchmark.

If you see its not the older engine but new and deigned as per need, It is 1500hp output engine..

I have read that DRDO was deigning Heavy ERA and which is now on MK2, I have not heard that Russian are making custom made K5 for India..

If you see it close this MK2 ERA have double RHA layer which is not on T-90S ERA..

90% of the products where Major system are Indian deigned and Minor LI produced coz you dont need as it fit your need...

SU-30MKI cannot be compared with Arjun coz SU-30 is not a Indian deigned product so does home made T-72 Monkey Models and T-90S tanks..

 

[Austin]

I have seen Ajai Shukla reporting in his blog comment section that it is a 1400 hp engine.

But can you show be how this is 1500 hp engine mark and model and how is that different from previous Mk1 engine.

ERA can always be custom built and there is no evidence to suggest the current ERA is a DRDO one ( it could be ) but we have on record CVRDE statement that initially ERA for Arjun will be imported

 

[Austin]

check this Ajai comment
Broadsword: Upcoming modifications on the Arjun Mark II

Broadsword said...

Who has told you that the Arjun Mark II would be getting a new engine?

A new engine would require re-engineering of the kind that would delay the Mark II beyond acceptability.

Instead, the 1400 HP engine's output has been optimised by re-engineering the tank's final drive... and re-arranging the gear ratios so as to obtain more torque at lower speeds... and obtain fast acceleration, lower operating speeds and better fuel economy.

 

[Austin]

New engine will come with its own issue and will require long duration of testing the proven engine of Mk1 will make development faster.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

ERA can always be custom built and there is no evidence to suggest the current ERA is a DRDO one ( it could be ) but we have on record CVRDE statement that initially ERA for Arjun will be imported


I have seen Ajai Shukla reporting in his blog comment section that it is a 1400 hp engine.But can you show be how this is 1500 hp engine mark and model and how is that different from previous Mk1 engine.

check this Ajai comment
Broadsword: Upcoming modifications on the Arjun Mark II

Mate, its harder to believe that Russian customized ERA for Arjun & We dont have the right to modify this Imported ERA, please provide link if so, On other I have the link where it said clearly:

09-09-11, 12:13 PM

"The ERA will protect the Arjun's crews from enemy missiles. Initially we will fit the same Russian ERA that protects the T-90 and the T-72. But we will also develop our own indigenous ERA."
Broadsword: Army to order more Arjun tanks

This is not the same era as he said other wise it would have K5 ERA which is not the case from recent pics..

---------------------------------------------------------------

Engine:

He gave very little information about the engine, he dont mentioned anything about turbo charge either as you mentioned, Hard to believe either..
But as requirement set of MK2 is 1500hp engine..

 

[p2prada]

The ERA on the Arjun is the same as the one on T-90. K-5 can come in different dimensions. I don't see why DRDO cannot produce an Arjun specific version of the K-5 for Arjun.

I think there are three different dimensions of K-5 on the T-90. Perhaps four if we can remove the glacis plate and observe the K-5 below it.

Btw, the pictures released for the Arjun isn't the Arjun Mk2. The Mk2 is still under production. What we are seeing are an Mk1 modified with Kontakt-5. Like CVRDE mentioned, they will test an Mk1 with Mk2 based technologies until the real tank is produced by 2014.

@Austin

From what I know the Arjun Mk2 will have a modified 1400HP MTU engine with a modified transmission to allow the use of mine trawls. Sometime in the future we may see a new 1500HP engine, possibly made with foreign help. But of course this is uncertain. Making an engine from scratch will not be easy. The current MTU engine is beyond obsolete according to todays standards. If the Germans are unwilling then it would be good if we buy an equivalent Russian engine. They will be working on good engines for the Armata afterall. The FMBT's 1800HP engine will be a separate development.

 

[Damian]

@P2P

US company L3 offers a 1500HP version of AVDS-1790 Diesel Engine, it should fit in to Arjun without a problem. AVDS-1790 series are very reliable fuel efficent engines, Israelis use 1200HP version in their Merkava Mk3 and HAPC Namer.

 

[Austin]

The problem is even if new engines were to be available and there were talks of Cumins engine of 1500 hp some time back , it is not a plug and play affair to replace these engines , they would end up running these engines for thousands of Km to check the reliability of these engine , AUCRT type trials , maintenance and if these face any issue which they would for any new engine they will have to fix it up, fine tune it for indian condition and then go through further trials , the army will have its own wish list like maintenance procedure , logistics issue if its new engine.

All in All this is some years of work before it gets a green flag , the Mk1 engine has been reliably running for more than a decade and they have a good idea on how to maintain these engine plus the reliability is assured in Indian conditions .

So the new engine for Arjun Mk2 is just a rumour that came up since every one thought due to higher weight Mk2 will get new engine.

What they did was they modified existing engine and developed new transmission to get more juice from it.

Kunal the turbocharge thing was mentioned on DRDO newsletter would try to get it if I can.

 

[p2prada]

@Austin

I wanted to add this too. FMBT's specs are not finalized. We had heard of a PSQR, but we know for sure the GSQR is not ready. There was talk of a 120mm gun on it as well as a 125mm gun. But we know that both are smoothbores. Before a GSQR is released treat every bit of information on the FMBT as fiction.

Recently an article suggested the Army demanded CVRDE to keep quiet on FMBT after information on the 1800HP engine was leaked intentionally.

@P2P

US company L3 offers a 1500HP version of AVDS-1790 Diesel Engine, it should fit in to Arjun without a problem. AVDS-1790 series are very reliable fuel efficent engines, Israelis use 1200HP version in their Merkava Mk3 and HAPC Namer.

Yes, you had mentioned this before. But I believe the German options provide less hassle for Arjun. An entirely new engine will bring in more delays.

It is not impossible on the technology front, but we need to get approvals, sign agreements and contracts, modify an Arjun compatible engine and then integrate and test it. But will CVRDE delay an already delayed project?

Russians come with similar problems, but it is way faster than dealing with the American Congress. With the Germans and Russians we already have such agreements in place.

 

[p2prada]

So the new engine for Arjun Mk2 is just a rumour that came up since every one thought due to higher weight Mk2 will get new engine.

We currently don't have access to any of these new fangled engines anyway. Even that Cummins information may be a rumour.

It is easier to go on our own and add a new engine when the Arjun comes for upgrades in 15 years.

 

[Austin]

DRDO is working on new engine ( 1500 - 1800 hp ) if they work with industry they would come up with a decent engine in 8-10 years.

Indian Industry can come with good engine if they work with pvt players in the business once they get there then they can have same engine for Arjun and FMBT.

 

[Austin]

The current engine for Arjun is MB 838 Ka-501

Detail: MTU ONLINE

 

[Kunal Biswas]

DRDO produced Heavy ERA based on K5 Not K5, If i am wrong there must me mention of K5 era modified by DRDO ?

There was talk of a 120mm gun on it as well as a 125mm gun

125mm ? I am not sure there is any mention of that..

 

[p2prada]

The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Main News
This would indicate we are moving towards NERA based armour rather than the ceramic based Kanchan. So, this may be what Arjun Mk2 will eventually have apart from the T-90s.

@Damian
What you said about reactive armour on western tanks could be true considering our media is also talking about it.

DRDO produced Heavy ERA based on K5 Not K5, If i am wrong there must me mention of K5 era modified by DRDO ?

A heavy ERA is in the works and we know that. Since the K-5 is proven it is logical the Arjun's armour will be tested on a proven design before going for an unproven new ERA design from DRDO. Even ERA placement is crucial and is not done in a shoddy manner. I suppose the T-72 Ajeya are all equipped with DRDO modified K-5 designs. But I think we call it indigenous as we use our own explosives and chemicals. The underlying principle could be the same as K-5. I don't think there are any other ERA designs more battle tested than K-5, so it is a good thing.

125mm ? I am not sure there is any mention of that..

There are. But it is not etched in stone as the tank will undergo many changes from PSQR to GSQR. Who knows, we will suddenly see a 152mm or 155mm gun in the end. FMBT will be well ahead in time frame compared to the FICV for obvious reasons. So, there is plenty of time to wait for it to mature. DRDO talked about a design + prototype stage of 7 years. Followed by a testing stage of 3 years. So, it is a 10 year project. Bring delays in and this is easily a 2025 project. 7 years is plenty of time and things will change by that time.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

A heavy ERA is in the works and we know that. Since the K-5 is proven it is logical the Arjun's armour will be tested on a proven design before going for an unproven new ERA design from DRDO. Even ERA placement is crucial and is not done in a shoddy manner. I suppose the T-72 Ajeya are all equipped with DRDO modified K-5 designs. But I think we call it indigenous as we use our own explosives and chemicals. The underlying principle could be the same as K-5. I don't think there are any other ERA designs more battle tested than K-5, so it is a good thing.

Firstly, this is self opinion not a published text from any Solid Source..

Secondly, One yet believe if there is any mention of such JV between DRDO and Russia, Any link or Mention of such JV ?

There are. But it is not etched in stone as the tank will undergo many changes from PSQR to GSQR. Who knows, we will suddenly see a 152mm or 155mm gun in the end. FMBT will be well ahead in time frame compared to the FICV for obvious reasons. So, there is plenty of time to wait for it to mature. DRDO talked about a design + prototype stage of 7 years. Followed by a testing stage of 3 years. So, it is a 10 year project. Bring delays in and this is easily a 2025 project. 7 years is plenty of time and things will change by that time.

May be they go for 125mm but for now all i know from good sources on Net that FMBT will feature 120mm Smooth-bore gun..

 

[p2prada]

Firstly, this is self opinion not a published text from any Solid Source..

Secondly, One yet believe if there is any mention of such JV between DRDO and Russia, Any link or Mention of such JV ?

You mean to say DRDO does not reverse engineer.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

You mean to say DRDO does not reverse engineer.

Are you saying its based on 'K5' ? if so then its possible..

 

[LurkerBaba]

G. Munusamy, proprietor of Fluoro Carbon Seals, an equipment manufacturing company, received the award from Prime Minister Manmohan Singh for developing and manufacturing high-pressure piston seals for the hydro-gas suspension system for Arjun Tank.

"The product will help the country save Rs 10 crore on foreign exchange and aid in production of 120 tanks," said Cvrde director Dr P. Siva Kumar.

He said the company's seals capable of withstanding higher pressure, temperature and piston velocity have replaced imported seals from Germany.

Today, the company, which is based at Mettukuppam in Thoraipakkam, has started exporting similar high-pressure items to Germany. Started by four brothers, the small firm began production of seals for Army in 2004.

Chennaiman wins defence award | Deccan Chronicle