Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

sayareakd

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can the arjun mk2 fire missiles from the main gun
even Arjun MK-1 can fire LAHAT/CLGM with 6-8 km range, but its sight does not have aiming system in the tank. But that does not stop Arjun tank as LAHAT can be aimed from outside by third party towards target.

Please read up back pages.
 
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Damian

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The problem with LAHAT is that it is a 105mm calliber, and need a sabot to be fired from bigger calliber weapon. 105mm means that it have lower penetration capabilities than 120mm and 125mm GLATGM's. It have of course Top Attack capability, but a bigger and more capable warhead sometimes might be more usefull, especially if You need to use GLATGM in a LOS and Direct Attack mode, not BLOS and Top Attack mode.

So it is not definetly the best solution, but unfortunetly currently it is only avaiable one for a 120mm guns, maybe besides one Ukrainian design.
 

sayareakd

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The problem with LAHAT is that it is a 105mm calliber, and need a sabot to be fired from bigger calliber weapon. 105mm means that it have lower penetration capabilities than 120mm and 125mm GLATGM's. It have of course Top Attack capability, but a bigger and more capable warhead sometimes might be more usefull, especially if You need to use GLATGM in a LOS and Direct Attack mode, not BLOS and Top Attack mode.

So it is not definetly the best solution, but unfortunetly currently it is only avaiable one for a 120mm guns, maybe besides one Ukrainian design.
yeah we know that, that is why JV product called CLGM

here is the LAHAT specifications

Type ATGM
Place of origin Israel
Service history
In service 1992 - present
Used by Israel, India, Germany
Unit cost $20,000 (1999)
Specifications
Weight 13.0 kg [1]
Length 97.5 cm
Diameter 105 mm [1]
Warhead Tandem HEAT
Warhead weight 4.5 kg
Operational
range 8000 m[1]
Speed 285-300 m/s
Guidance
system Semi-Active Laser Homing[1]
Launch
platform 105 - 120 mm smooth bore
now compare these with CLGM missile

 

kaustav2001

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What's striking is the difference in range, LAHAT has a range of 8 Kms vs the 5Km range of the CLGM. Although no less potent, most cannon launched missiles (Reflex/ Kombat) have that kind of range - shouldn't we be instead opting for missiles with higher range, for e.g. the US XM1111 Mid-Range Munition (MRM) is supposed to have a range of 12 Km.

I see the same story repeated with Nag.. (max. range 4 Km as per GSQR), spike has a system (Spike NLOS) that can hit out to 25Kms (it's heavier too 70+ Kgs or so Vs 40+ Kgs for Nag) or so, whereas we're yet to break the 8Km barrier.

Just my 2 cents.
 

Bhadra

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Damain is basically condemning the rifles guns could you elaborate a little more on that
 

sayareakd

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What's striking is the difference in range, LAHAT has a range of 8 Kms vs the 5Km range of the CLGM. Although no less potent, most cannon launched missiles (Reflex/ Kombat) have that kind of range - shouldn't we be instead opting for missiles with higher range, for e.g. the US XM1111 Mid-Range Munition (MRM) is supposed to have a range of 12 Km.

I see the same story repeated with Nag.. (max. range 4 Km as per GSQR), spike has a system (Spike NLOS) that can hit out to 25Kms (it's heavier too 70+ Kgs or so Vs 40+ Kgs for Nag) or so, whereas we're yet to break the 8Km barrier.

Just my 2 cents.
dont go by official range. dont be surprised if CLGM can strike at 8km. :wave:
 

Kunal Biswas

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What's striking is the difference in range, LAHAT has a range of 8 Kms vs the 5Km range of the CLGM. Although no less potent, most cannon launched missiles (Reflex/ Kombat) have that kind of range - shouldn't we be instead opting for missiles with higher range, for e.g. the US XM1111 Mid-Range Munition (MRM) is supposed to have a range of 12 Km.

Just my 2 cents.

5km range is not bad coz it comes under tank FCS LOS, Beyond 5km Missile is either guided by UAV or SF when launched by tank..

5km is just good for tank vs tank warfare, Not to mention CLGM have edge over other most other Missiles coz it have top attack mode..

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

In case we need higher range simple purchase LAHAT..
 

Damian

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Damain is basically condemning the rifles guns could you elaborate a little more on that
Well, rifled gun is just outdated technology.

Rifled gun have lower service life compared to smoothbore.

Rifled gun needs higher pressure to fire projectile at the same velocity as smoothbore gun.

Rifled gun is problematic when firing HEAT, because HEAT do not like spin effect, so to overcome this problem, designers designed a non rotating warhead mounted to the outershell by ball bearings so the shell can spin, but warhead won't. This makes projectile design more complex and also probably expensive.

Rifled guns are used because of HESH, but HESH is not a good and modern solution. First problem is it's anti-armor propersties, HESH can be stopped by a simple metal screen, because of it's working mechanism. Also HESH is not really good against infantry, because to be HESH it needs very thin shell, which means that there are less fragment of less weight that can harm infantry than in case of traditional HE round.

Rifled guns are currently minority, especially in 120mm calliber, not much modern ammunition is designed for them, actually non modern ammunition is made for them, maybe besides British round for L30 gun, but that ammo is also not manufactured any more and is a 3 piece ammo, that won't fit to the guns other than L11 and L30 series.

Rifled guns are more accurate, this is one of basic arguments of fans of rifled guns, but in fact, there is no proof that at typical distance where conventional ammunition is fired, smoothbore is accurate. In fact in all NATO competitions and tests, rifled guns were not better than modern smoothbores at such typical distance up to 4,000m where conventional ammunition is used. Beyond that distance guided munitions must be used.

Besides that, all the stories about long range fire engagements with use of rifled guns are not accurate descriptions of what really happend. For example that tanks firing at such distance were commanded by high ranking officers, normal crews can't waste ammunition in such way. ALso nobody says how many rounds were fired before one of them hit target eliminaing it.

Instead smoothbore guns offer:

Longer service life.

Easier production and costs reduction due to less of them need to be changed thanks to longer service life.

Can fire projectiles at higher velocities with less pressure.

Simpler and cheaper ammunition.

Are manufactured en masse, big variety of different types of ammunition avaiable on market.

Accuracy not worser than rifled guns on typical engagement ranges with use of conventional ammunition.

More modern ammunition, for example instead of HESH, far more effective modern HE ammo with programmable fuze, that enables for example air burst mode to defeat target behind cover (e.g. sand berm) or delay fuze mode that enables to defeat hard targets from bunkers, other structures to lighter armored targets and even older tanks (see American AMP round test photo where AMP HE round with programmable fuze defeated side turret armor of T-55 tank, this is ~100+mm steel cast armor, impressive for a HE round), such ammo is invurnable for light steel screens effective against HESH.

And many other points can be pointed out in favor of smoothbore guns.

@Kaustav.

XM1111 MRM-CE can't be really compaed to other GLATGM's like LAHAT, CLGM or others, because it is a completely new quality for such guided ammunition for tanks. XM1111 besides that can be guided by platform that fired it or other platform that see the target, can also be fired in the direction of detected enemy forces in autonomous mode, and it will find it's targets by itself.
 

Kunal Biswas

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The Arjun Recovery Vehicle is powerful enough for to tow all tanks in IA..
 

kaustav2001

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Now perhaps it's a good time to start the debate about the storage boxes Vs side Armour again :D ... This time around they indeed look more like armour modules.
 

sayareakd

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Somebody posted this on BR... Can this really be the Arjun MK II (sexy looking beast) :D

other things on Arjun MK-II



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

final version will look like this



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

wonder if other side will have ERA ? If it has got ERA it wont be as many as on right side of tank that is for sure.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Somebody posted this on BR... Can this really be the Arjun MK II (sexy looking beast) :D

That is indeed MK-2..

Now perhaps it's a good time to start the debate about the storage boxes Vs side Armour again :D ... This time around they indeed look more like armour modules.
They are redesigned storage box..

other things on Arjun MK-II



Uploaded with ImageShack.us
final version will look like this
wonder if other side will have ERA ? If it has got ERA it wont be as many as on right side of tank that is for sure.
MK-2 have two prototypes..

Final version indeed look like that, But i wish same ERA on right side..
 

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