Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) Mark II

[arnabmit]

I do not know if this has been discussed. This image just caught my eye, so sharing...

This seems o be a photograph of a page instead of a scan, or a scan of a page of a hard bound book which was not lying flat against the scanner. Because of this, the hull diagram in the pic is trapezoidal instead of rectangular.

If turret width at different points is arrived at based on this pic, then that would be wrong, as from the angle the pic was taken, a rectangular diagram is looking trapezoidal.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[ersakthivel]

@ersakthivel, This is old FCS of MK1, May help..

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There is amount of Gap available from the optics located front of turret to the eye piece of the gunner ..

Gunner seat is behind its 'GAS' optics which is also used for engagement if main sight fails ..

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@Dejawolf, ??

Is the Eye piece of the GAS optics placed at the center of the main sight cutaway or at the left side edge as in the pic above?

 

[ersakthivel]

15th trophy for me. Ershaktivel doesn't know what the Arjun optic looks like
if you want to know, take a look at my 3d model.

I think the troll has been fed enough for today. back under your bridge with you.

Of course you need some well earned rest,

because you need to know the space operating prinicple of a simple door pivot before starting your mighty job of feeding a big troll like me,

So stand near your room door , open it and close it hundred of times and compare it to the monumentally stupid pivot base assumption you made in your drawing to bolster your spurious 300 mm LOS claim.

Or spend some time sitting on the more than 500 mm wide gun you drew near the gunner to justify your stupid 2900 mm turret width claim.

you can put your whole head (more than 250 mm wide)into the gun barrel and ask the gunner to fire it, since you are so sure that Arjun rifled gun is obsolete no harm is going to come your way,

Since you have provided an opening for shell which is equal to half the width of the 500 mm wide hatch cover

you can start designing new 250 mm dia rounds for this super Arjun gun of yours,

Whatever the eye piece of Arjun looks like(I am hundred percent sure a troll like you knows no shit about it either , just adding up fancy rectangular blocks and tubular sections like a dummy, for some one who does not even know how a simple pivot operates it should be way too much)

You can not explain how your 300 mm LOS looks silly when you compare the turret top of post -205

Answer the post no-205, because I need more entertainment,

or

If not every time you post your einsteen's theory of relativity based magic numbers 600+600+300+760=2260 I am going to join issue with

answer the post -205

 

[SilentKiller]

Why are we still discussing MK1 on MK2 thread?

Please discuss MK2 here. thanks!!

 

[Virendra]

Guys take a break from this thread if you find it difficult to post without sparking tempers.
Decent language won't hurt your post.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Above the gunner eye piece, perhaps in middle..

Is the Eye piece of the GAS optics placed at the center of the main sight cutaway or at the left side edge as in the pic above?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

This also do not reply provocation ..

Do not use language which raise provocation on first place ..

===========

Carry on..

Guys take a break from this thread if you find it difficult to post without sparking tempers.
Decent language won't hurt your post.

 

[Dejawolf]

Why are we still discussing MK1 on MK2 thread?

Please discuss MK2 here. thanks!!

because ershaktivel is unable to admit he's wrong.

 

[pmaitra]

Allowing for some perspective error, I compared the two figures, and I am getting the impression the image above has incorrect dimensions:

 

[ersakthivel]

because ershaktivel is unable to admit he's wrong.

Then explain this,

To the bare eye the distance between the back wall of main sight cutaway and the start of the vision block

is almost equal to the

crew entry hole for TC or the vertical standing hatch cover width

SO it must be 500mm plus at bare minimum,

How come you got 300 mm measurement?

If your 300 mm measurement is true then the Tc must saw both his hands off before entering the tank.

[/SIZE][/B]

The below is the original drawing , observe the position of the pivot base for the hatch cover,

compare it to the position of the pivot base in your drawing above,


Do you notice anything different?

You have intentionally placed them well behind their original position to suit your fancy 300 mm LOS behind main sight needs.

Look at the picture below of Arjun firing away,

Now do you know where those pivot base for the hatch cover is and how it operates?

And also the following passage

See the first of the three pictures,

Where is the end point of the main sight cut away and where is the end point of the gunner's seat?

Gunner seat edge is located almost behind the middle point of the main sight cut away,

The edges of the main sight cutaway and the edges of the Tc's seat are not in line as dejawolf insists them to be in his drawings.


A large portion of the gunner's seat is right behind the gap between the gun covering plate and the cutaway for the main sight, which is heavily armored

about half the gunner seat is behind the big gun covering plate on the turret front.

Only half the gunner's seat is behind the main sight cut away.

And if the orange vision block in front of the gunner is located at the middle of the gunner's seat, (because main sight instruments have their eye piece at one of their corners) there should be some offset between the position of the gunner's seat and Tc.

So this seating arrangement in the picture which places the center point of the gunner's seat right behind the center point of the main sight cutaway is clearly wrong based on the photo above,

 

[Dejawolf]

And that pivot base is 2500 mm behind the turret front tip is the point.

Congrats,

bye.

lol. measure it on the bharat rhakshak drawing if you must, or have a look again at this picture:

the pivot is exactly where it's supposed to be. it's not really that hard to put it down in the right spot.
it seems harder for you to accept that you are wrong however. you've already screwed up twice today.
and FYI, i've made over 200 pivot points for hatches during my 10 years of making tanks. and whether the hatch is circular
or not has everything to do with the position of the hatch, no matter how much you try to deny it.
In norway the only saying about lying is "you shall not lie". and curiously, norway is one of the least corrupt countries in the world.

 

[ersakthivel]

lol. measure it on the bharat rhakshak drawing if you must, or have a look again at this picture:

the pivot is exactly where it's supposed to be. it's not really that hard to put it down in the right spot.
it seems harder for you to accept that you are wrong however. you've already screwed up twice today.
and FYI, i've made over 200 pivot points for hatches during my 10 years of making tanks. and whether the hatch is circular
or not has everything to do with the position of the hatch, no matter how much you try to deny it.
In norway the only saying about lying is "you shall not lie". and curiously, norway is one of the least corrupt countries in the world.

Look carefully at the BR scale drawing below, the pivot base of the hatch cover is right below the vertical standing crew hatch

cover,it this point that is 2500 mm behind the turret front tip

Why is it way behind the vertical standing crew hatch cover in your drawing above

Do you even have the faintest idea how a pivot operates in a real world?

If you want the hatch cover to stand vertically at 90 degrees the pivot base must be right below the hath cover , not behind the hatch cover. it is a simple real world fact, just open the door of your room and stop it at 90 degrees ,

where is the pivot keel?

it is right in line with the door.

I hope you will identify the turret below belongs to Arjun,

Where is the pivot base and the vertical standing crew hatch cover ?

On the same vertical line or 250 mm apart,?

In case you don't know the A, B, C, D of Arjun , See below,

The drawing below is a much better representation of Arjun turret and it shows the LOS behind the main sight clearly.

The yellow rectangle is the main sight cutaway measuring 700 mm on scale. And the distance between the end of the inlaid photo and the back edge of the main sight cutaway is the armor thickness behind main sight. It is around 800 mm approx.

Note the vision blocks above the Tc's head in the in laid photo clearly matches the edge of the crew hole in the line drawing with scale and dimensions.

The rough draw may not be upto scale, it is a rough and ready alteration of what militarista posted to communicate my point of view.

1. A ----------the distance between gun mantlet plate front tip and the back edge of the main sight cutaway= 700mm according to your previous posts.

2. B ----------- The distance between the back edge of the main sight cutaway and the opening for roof top vision block inside Arjun turret (the back edge of the main gunner's sight block is in vertical line with roof top vision block opening inside Arjun turret) = 600 mm(LOS for composite armor)


3. C ---------- the distance between the back edge of the main gunner's sight block and the gunner's seat back head rest=600 mm.

4. D ------------the distance between the gunner's seat back head rest and the vertical standing crew hatch cover in the line drawing posted below = 600mm. gunner's seat back head rest is in vertical straight line with the front arc edge of the round crew hole.

So A + B + C + D = 700 + 600 + 600 + 600 = 2500 mm.


1.The red rectangle marked measurement A starts at the gun mantlet plate tip and ends at the main sight cutaway back side edge.

2. The blue rectangle signifying B starts at the where A ends and stops at back edge of the gunner's main sight bloc back edge.


3. The yellow rectangle C starts at the point where B ends and stops at the back side of the gunner's seat headrest's back edge.


4.The green rectangle D starts at where C ends and stops at the swivel or the base of the vertical standing crew hatch cover base in the only line drawing dimensions posted in this post above.


1. the length of A-------The red rectangle's length is 700 mm.

2.The length of B-------The red rectangle's length is 600 mm.

3.The length of C-------The red rectangle's length is 600 mm.

4.The length of D-------The red rectangle's length is 600 mm.

A + B + C + D =2500 mm.

The end of the green rectangle D is exactly at 2500 mm from the front tip of the gun mantle plate according to the drawing with dimensions from where you supposedly took you measurements for your 3D model.

The following photo validates my measurement of the length of the green (D) and yellow(C) rectangle.

1.The Tc seat edge the ending point of the yellow rectangle is situated at 2500 mm behind the gun mantle plate tip according to the line drawing with scale measurements.

2.The gunner's seat , the ending point of the yellow rectangle is locate at at 2000 mm from gun mantle plate tip according to the line drawing with scale measurements.

3.Since the Tc himself has just 600 mm seat breadth the gunner too will have the same 600 mm. So the ending point of the blue rectangle is at 1500 mm from gun mantle plate tip according to the line drawing with scale measurements.

And the photo above is a clear proof that the roof top vision block brings light into the Arjun turret in a slanting rectangular channel at the point of the end of the blue rectangle i.e a point in vertical line with the back side of the gunner's main vision block with binocular like eye pieces.

4.Also since the main sight cutaway stops at 700 mm from the gun mantle plate tip ,

according to the line drawing with scale measurements the ending point of the red rectangle , is locates at 700 from the gun mantle plate tip according to the line drawing with scale measurements.


So 1300 mm- 700 mm =600 mm is the LOS armor thickness behind the main sight without any doubt.

And the roof top vision block brings light to the gunner's main vision block through a slating rectangular channel.

If the main sight is pushed up like the latest model LEOs the Arjun can have 300 mm more LOS behind the main sight than any LEO model, because it's turret is longer and lower than LEO.

So any 380 mm LOS or 300 mm LOS behind the main sight is pointless according to the photo proofs
So all the four consistent continuous measurement marking arrow lines will give you undeniable evidence of very strong protection behind Arjun main sight back side contrary to your views based on faulty 3 D model is my opinion based on the line drawing and the photographs in this page,

But I have never seen the Arjun tank . So I don't claim it is the concrete truth from my first hand experience of arjun. but the measurement leaves no doubt , especially Arjun turret is not only shorter and wider , but longer than Leo- 2 as well. it is this small crucial detail you omit.

So even as per the above photo of yours the distance C+D=1200 mm only

 

[pmaitra]

@ersakthivel and @Dejawolf, stop fighting.


@Dejawolf, can you please post a straight line projection instead of a perspective projection of your model. I am looking at the same image (top) I have posted here. It would be nice if the focal axis is horizontal to the ground and orthogonal to the side of the turret.

Thanks!

 

[Dejawolf]

Allowing for some perspective error, I compared the two figures, and I am getting the impression the image above has incorrect dimensions:

that's because you're using different points of measure. in first pic you're using front of gunshield, in second pic you're using front of turret.
also, turret is taller at first point of measure vs second point.

 

[pmaitra]

that's because you're using different points of measure. in first pic you're using front of gunshield, in second pic you're using front of turret.
also, turret is taller at first point of measure vs second point.

I know. I am trying to get as accurate as possible. Please respond to this post.

 

[ersakthivel]

lol. measure it on the bharat rhakshak drawing if you must, or have a look again at this picture:

the pivot is exactly where it's supposed to be. it's not really that hard to put it down in the right spot.
it seems harder for you to accept that you are wrong however. you've already screwed up twice today.
and FYI, i've made over 200 pivot points for hatches during my 10 years of making tanks. and whether the hatch is circular
or not has everything to do with the position of the hatch, no matter how much you try to deny it.
In norway the only saying about lying is "you shall not lie". and curiously, norway is one of the least corrupt countries in the world.

look at the above image carefully the pivot base is NOT at the 2500 mm mark in your drawing,

that is the reason your are not extending the blue dimensional line from your pivot base to the scale and stopped it on the Br drawing,Even then it is clearly visible they are not matching
but it is there in the BR line drawing, In fact your pivot base is shown to be well in front of the actual arrangement in BR,

Once again don't drag your 10 year experience here, You have said from the first post that you used this BR scaled dimensioned line drawing for your model dimensions,

But when I point out such an obvious mistake you don't need to drag your experience and your country's reputation here,

We have just been told to keep things civil.

 

[Dejawolf]

Look carefully at the BR scale drawing below, the pivot base of the hatch cover is right below the vertical standing crew hatch

i've looked carefully at it for at least 5-6 hours total. i'm done looking carefully at it. how about you look carefully at it for a change. maybe you'll finally realize you're wrong.

 

[ersakthivel]

that's because you're using different points of measure. in first pic you're using front of gunshield, in second pic you're using front of turret.
also, turret is taller at first point of measure vs second point.

On the contrary it is you who are ,using the point behind gun shield , which is an attempt by tou to divert the issue,

If use the front tip of the gun shield plate for all measurements every one can see who is right or wrong,

 

[Dejawolf]

I know. I am trying to get as accurate as possible. Please respond to this post.

length from back of eyepiece to front of GPS assembly is about 110cm.

 

[ersakthivel]

i've looked carefully at it for at least 5-6 hours total. i'm done looking carefully at it. how about you look carefully at it for a change. maybe you'll finally realize you're wrong.

Extend all the dimensional lines till the scale and

use the front tip of the gun shield plate for all measurements ,

every one can see who is right or wrong,

it can be over in minutes.