AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[MirageBlue]

So when do you think Turkey and India will have a certified engine to use on their 5G fighter?

Don't know about Turkey, but with India there isn't even a development partner identified as yet.

My guess- we're not going to see a new engine powering an AMCA fighter till 2040.

 

[Spitfire9]

Don't know about Turkey, but with India there isn't even a development partner identified as yet.

My guess- we're not going to see a new engine powering an AMCA fighter till 2040.

From what I read from the more measured minds on a Turkish forum, Turkey is not aiming on developing a state of the art engine. The emphasis is on having an adequate substitute for the GE F110 available for the KAAN as soon as possible. Given that they are designing a 35,000lb thrust engine to replace a 29,000lb thrust engine, it is not so important that initial versions of the engine produce design thrust. Aiming low tech with a margin for shortfall makes me think that Turkiye will likely have a certified engine to use in the KAAN pre-3035.

As for AMCA, India should have a pretty good idea of what is available from the majors by now. If a decision were made to go ahead today, I think it extremely likely that a certified engine for AMCA could be available early 2030's. I say 'could be available' because how much Indian 'bureaucracy' would slow project progress down is difficult to anticipate. I have heard nothing to make me think that the culture of glacially slow decision making, so loved in Indian procurement, is changing.

I think 2040 for a new AMCA engine is more credible than 2035. Or never if India is not prepared to bite the bullet and agree to pay $5 billion plus to get a new engine designed by a major.

 

[BON PLAN]

On the contrary,
Turkish TEI and Turkish universities were investing for this engine since 2012-2013. Many Turkish engineers and professors from USA and European countries joined. That is how Turkish helicopter engine ts-1400 has become reality.
Since 2015, TEI is working on getting all necessary critical technologies for Kaan engine.
TRMotor was working on design of Kaan engine for more than 4-5 years. Project has been given to TRmotor and TEI.
Tusas ,producer of Kaan, says they will start test of national engine on Kaan in 2028. But we think it will be no earlier than 2029-2030

As made by China since 50 years ! and they are only able to copy and paste russian engine.

As made by India since 40 years ! and no engine able to fit a fighter jet is ready.

China, India are more capable country than Turkey, so I don't see a real break through this decade.

 

[no smoking]

As for AMCA, India should have a pretty good idea of what is available from the majors by now. If a decision were made to go ahead today, I think it extremely likely that a certified engine for AMCA could be available early 2030's. I say 'could be available' because how much Indian 'bureaucracy' would slow project progress down is difficult to anticipate. I have heard nothing to make me think that the culture of glacially slow decision making, so loved in Indian procurement, is changing.

I think 2040 for a new AMCA engine is more credible than 2035. Or never if India is not prepared to bite the bullet and agree to pay $5 billion plus to get a new engine designed by a major.

Let's take a look of Chinese engines development timeline:
The WS-10 engine started testing on J-11A from 2002;
The engine only became mature enough (life time >300h) around 2010 and enter into massive production;
Then after 10 more years usage, PLAAF was confident enough about the reliability of WS-10 and put it on the single engine jet J-10 around 2020;
Finally, in 2023, we see the WS-15 appeared on J-20 for testing.

So, basically, it crossed 20 years from testing 3rd generation engine to testing 4th generation engine for Chinese.
Now, it is 2024, we haven't seen any Kaveri tested on a flying fighter jet yet.

 

[tfxkaanf23]

As made by China since 50 years ! and they are only able to copy and paste russian engine.

As made by India since 40 years ! and no engine able to fit a fighter jet is ready.

China, India are more capable country than Turkey, so I don't see a real break through this decade.

Unlike china and India , turkey is producing major parts of military and civilian engines for decades!
The ones came from abroad to work in engine projects were engineers of major western engine producers.
China eventually produces its engines , we can also spare china from that list.
Additionally, Türkiye is getting support from Ukrainian engine conpany ivchenko.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Just like China and India, turkey is license producing non-secretive common parts of military and civilian engines for decades. The ones came from abroad to work in engine projects were engineers of major western engine producers, thanks to Turkey leeching off NATO support. Exclusively, Turkey is ripping off Ukrainian engine company Ivchenko-progress.

Made a few corrections there mate.

 

[Azaad]

Let's take a look of Chinese engines development timeline:
The WS-10 engine started testing on J-11A from 2002;
The engine only became mature enough (life time >300h) around 2010 and enter into massive production;
Then after 10 more years usage, PLAAF was confident enough about the reliability of WS-10 and put it on the single engine jet J-10 around 2020;
Finally, in 2023, we see the WS-15 appeared on J-20 for testing.

So, basically, it crossed 20 years from testing 3rd generation engine to testing 4th generation engine for Chinese.
Now, it is 2024, we haven't seen any Kaveri tested on a flying fighter jet yet.

HaiYaa !

Uncle Han is back to spewing pure unadulterated MSS bull crap propaganda out here.

The WS-10 is a complete & direct copy from the AL-31F with modifications & upgrades along the way , which the Han license manufactured ( & REVERSE ENGINEERED ) along with the Su-27 after obtaining ToT rights from Russia which made the Russians so livid that they refused to sell top of the line state of the art equipment to the Han till the sales of the S-400 ADS & the Su-35 around 2016.

The entire WS series of TFs are uprated & downrated models of the AL-31F.

India has been license manufacturing the AL-31FP for nearly 2 decades now such that in the past few years , we've managed to indigenise practically the entire Turbo Fan in house .

 

[Blood+]

HaiYaa !

Uncle Han is back to spewing pure unadulterated MSS bull crap propaganda out here.

The WS-10 is a complete & direct copy from the AL-31F with modifications & upgrades along the way , which the Han license manufactured ( & REVERSE ENGINEERED ) along with the Su-27 after obtaining ToT rights from Russia which made the Russians so livid that they refused to sell top of the line state of the art equipment to the Han till the sales of the S-400 ADS & the Su-35 around 2016.

The entire WS series of TFs are uprated & downrated models of the AL-31F.

India has been license manufacturing the AL-31FP for nearly 2 decades now such that in the past few years , we've managed to indigenise practically the entire Turbo Fan in house .

And not mention, make improvements upon the original design.

 

[WolfPack86]

India's 5th Gen Aircraft | HAL AMCA

 

[Super Flanker]

In current configuration: The AMCA Mk-1 will carry 4 AAM in its internal bay. In the future, likely be able to carry 6. F-35 in current configuration, can also carry 4 missiles, but after Block-IV upgrade, it will be able to carry 6 so AMCA will follow the same path as the F-35.

 

[Blood+]

In current configuration: The AMCA Mk-1 will carry 4 AAM in its internal bay. In the future, likely be able to carry 6. F-35 in current configuration, can also carry 4 missiles, but after Block-IV upgrade, it will be able to carry 6 so AMCA will follow the same path as the F-35.

I think if you could make a version of the Astra with folding fins, then you could fit 6 of those without any modifications.

 

[joy_tilak]

In current configuration: The AMCA Mk-1 will carry 4 AAM in its internal bay. In the future, likely be able to carry 6. F-35 in current configuration, can also carry 4 missiles, but after Block-IV upgrade, it will be able to carry 6 so AMCA will follow the same path as the F-35.

The AMCA doesnt have internal bays as big as F 35s. The F35 can carry 2*1000kg bombs and 2* LRAAM. AMCA can carry only 2*500kg bombs and 2*LRAAMS. Hence it is highly unlikely for AMCA to carry 6 missiles with modifications in future. AMCA is not designed to hit hardened bunkers like F35 but to take out enemy radars stealthily and shoot at AAMs at enemy aircrafts from a long distance, turn and run away.

 

[Azaad]

The AMCA doesnt have internal bays as big as F 35s. The F35 can carry 2*1000kg bombs and 2* LRAAM. AMCA can carry only 2*500kg bombs and 2*LRAAMS. Hence it is highly unlikely for AMCA to carry 6 missiles with modifications in future. AMCA is not designed to hit hardened bunkers like F35 but to take out enemy radars stealthily and shoot at AAMs at enemy aircrafts from a long distance, turn and run away.

There's the Mk-1 & the Mk-2 . All that you're seeing on the F-35 & MORE would go into the Mk-2. RN , it's not even on the drawing board. However the ambitions of the ADA & the IAF is to realise a 5.5 Gen FA.

 

[Blood+]

There's the Mk-1 & the Mk-2 . All that you're seeing on the F-35 & MORE would go into the Mk-2. RN , it's not even on the drawing board. However the ambitions of the ADA & the IAF is to realise a 5.5 Gen FA.

You think they could stuff one or two extra Astra MkIs in there if they could somehow get rid of those huge ass fins??

 

[Azaad]

Not much into specifics but you could have that or you could have a bigger IWB in Mk-2 or both .

You think they could stuff one or two extra Astra MkIs in there if they could somehow get rid of those huge ass fins??

 

[Blackmamba]

Unlike china and India , turkey is producing major parts of military and civilian engines for decades!
The ones came from abroad to work in engine projects were engineers of major western engine producers.
China eventually produces its engines , we can also spare china from that list.
Additionally, Türkiye is getting support from Ukrainian engine conpany ivchenko.

HAL Engine Division in Koraput manufactured and overhauled R-25, R-29B, RD-33 and AL-31FP engines to power the MiG-21 series, MiG-27M, MiG-29 and Su-30 MKI aircraft.
Read more at: https://www.oneindia.com/feature/ha...-division-with-gen-next-projects-1590744.html

 

[tfxkaanf23]

HAL Engine Division in Koraput manufactured and overhauled R-25, R-29B, RD-33 and AL-31FP engines to power the MiG-21 series, MiG-27M, MiG-29 and Su-30 MKI aircraft.
Read more at: https://www.oneindia.com/feature/ha...-division-with-gen-next-projects-1590744.html

So what?? TEI overhauls many Western engines for decades. Not just makes overhaul, it produces many parts of modern engines.
Your post only confirms what I have said.

 

[Blackmamba]

So what?? TEI overhauls many Western engines for decades. Not just makes overhaul, it produces many parts of modern engines.
Your post only confirms what I have said.

Did you miss out the manufacturing part

 

[Blackmamba]

So what?? TEI overhauls many Western engines for decades. Not just makes overhaul, it produces many parts of modern engines.
Your post only confirms what I have said.

From the link
"The division has so far manufactured close to 280 engines (AL-31FP) for the Sukhois, while around 158 have been overhauled. The first engine from the raw material phase was rolled out during 2011-12. We are also fully equipped for the long testing (three months) of Sukhoi engines," says Rajaram.

Read more at: https://www.oneindia.com/feature/ha...-division-with-gen-next-projects-1590744.html

 

[tfxkaanf23]

From the link
"The division has so far manufactured close to 280 engines (AL-31FP) for the Sukhois, while around 158 have been overhauled. The first engine from the raw material phase was rolled out during 2011-12. We are also fully equipped for the long testing (three months) of Sukhoi engines," says Rajaram.

Read more at: https://www.oneindia.com/feature/ha...-division-with-gen-next-projects-1590744.html

So you produced Russian engines, you should have produced your own engine like china did. But , you were unable to produce. This only shows that your government does not give necessary money to your company for your own projects. Or your companies do not have experienced engineers